War President? I Think Not

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Psychoblues, Jul 17, 2006.

  1. Psychoblues
    Offline

    Psychoblues Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    2,701
    Thanks Received:
    142
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    North Missisippi
    Ratings:
    +143
    Dear Uncle Psychoblues,
    Why does George W. Bush keep calling himself a “War President?” Aside from the fact that he really seems to like dressing up in war stuff, and saying things like “Bring it on” and “Dead or alive,” etc., that only serve to make you wonder how secure his manhood really is, does he really think America is at war? IS America at war? I know we’ve got soldiers dying every day because George likes the idea of guns shooting and people being scared of us, but is that ‘war?’ And what does he get out of being a “War President?” Should he get something special, like a tee shirt?

    Laura
    Ames, IA


    Dear Laura,

    Well, if Uncle is understanding this right, you only get the t-shirt when you’ve actually been there and done that. So let’s parse it out: Has Mr. Bush been a war President?

    “War” is a word with many meanings, and it’s important to be clear about which meaning is actually relevant, especially when human lives are at stake. The word is often tossed around casually, as in “I’m at war with the Accounting Department over how the quarterly numbers are reported,” or “The Save-A-Lot Store has declared war on high prices!” That’s fine when the stakes are low. I have been known to mutter things about being at war with the community of ants that is trying to move in and occupy my kitchen counter, and I’d get annoyed with anyone who was offended at my trivialization of the concept in such a context. Lighten up and get a life, and all that.

    But when you’re operating on the scale of governments and nations with military resources, the lives of soldiers and civilians at stake, and huge investments, being too casual about semantics can have devastating consequences. When you’re operating on the scale of a government, “war” has a very specific, very scary, very ominous meaning that has profound legal and moral implications. It is not a word that should be tossed around lightly. Even the construction “War on Poverty,” which I wholeheartedly approve in concept, is a little dangerous semantically.

    There are international laws, treaties, and expectations that kick into gear when “war” is at issue. “War,” in that sense, requires certain conditions to apply. For one thing, “War” must be waged by one state upon another state. As a private citizen, I cannot prosecute a war against other private citizens. I can’t enter into internationally-binding treaties or contracts to end a war, to gain and enforce concessions from my opponent(s), or to set conditions for future interactions between myself and my opponent(s).

    And that should give you some idea of what “war” is, in the larger sense of international law. There are a number of conventions that legally define war, and they are very complex, but the common points reference war as a state of hostilities between two legally-constituted entities that have the power to bind themselves by treaty or agreement, and to enforce treaties and agreements on their own citizenry, allies, member states, etc. By inference, the state of hostilities exists because one or several parties involved wishes the other(s) to so bind themselves (by, for example, surrendering territory, making legal trade concessions, affording particular rights or privileges, etc.) Those others, presumably, do not wish to so bind themselves, and/or want one or several other parties to bind themselves to renounce claims upon territories, accord special rights and privileges, trade concessions, etc.

    One of the things Psychoblues finds so very ironic about the events of my lifetime is that the long ordeal in Vietnam, which was clearly a war by those criteria, was never acknowledged as a ‘war.’ It was called many things, but back then the spinmeisters of the Establishment seemed to believe it would be a bad thing for Americans to acknowledge that they were at war. Today, with our military tragically committed to an ongoing conflict that kills soldiers and civilians daily, our spinmeisters hype the “war,” angle even though the ‘enemy’ is no legally-constituted entity with the power to bind themselves and their citizens, allies, and/or member states to treaties and agreements. In other words, in Vietnam we were fighting a war that was mislabeled as a ‘police action” and in Iraq we are essentially engaging in a police action hyped as a ‘war!’

    It might be marginally accurate, perhaps, to describe the brief campaign to destroy Mr. Saddam Hussein’s government as a “war,” since Mr. Saddam Hussein had the legal power (then,) to bind his government, citizenry, and allies to any treaty or agreement that the United States and its allies wanted to impose. Of our stated goals, (ensure that Mr. Hussein’s government did not possess and could not employ weapons of mass destruction against any other nations; stop the abuse, torture, and mass killings of Iraqi civilians; and endow the Iraqi people with political self-determination,) the first had already been effectively achieved through diplomatic action, and I can’t remember any attempt to achieve the second two through diplomatic action before proceeding directly to hostilities. Still, in that sense at least, it was a “war” until Mr. Hussein’s capture and replacement with another legally recognized governmental authority.

    There are a good many words that can be correctly employed to describe what our government has committed lives and resources to since that time. We are engaged, as I previously noted, in a ‘police action’ with the cooperation and consent of a legally-recognized government, within their territory. We are also engaged in a long-term effort to reduce and/or eliminate terrorist actions against our citizens, which, if we wanted to be martial and macho about it, we could describe fairly as a ‘fight,’ or even a ‘campaign.’ It is not a war, since our enemy is no legally-recognized entity that has the power to bind itself, its citizens, member states, and allies to its agreements.

    In fact, terrorism is a crime and terrorists are uniquely repulsive criminals. They are not “freedom fighters” in the sense of wanting to replace an oppressive authoritarian or totalitarian government with a less oppressive government. In fact, they want to replace existing governments with governments that match or exceed them in authoritarian cruelty, and to deny essential freedoms of religious expression and belief, and political and social self-determination, to anyone who disagrees with them. They are criminals engaged in a loose global network of conspiracy to commit appalling and repulsive crimes and to hamstring effective intervention against them by fomenting political, economic, and ideological conflict and dissension among those who might be capable of stopping them.

    What does Mr. Bush get out of calling himself a “war President?” Presumably he believes, correctly, that when the nation is at war, the Executive Branch may legitimately assume some powers, and can postpone or elide some levels of public scrutiny, in order to effectively prosecute that war. Insofar as the U.S. was effectively at war with the Taliban government of Afghanistan, and Mr. Hussein’s government in Iraq for a couple of months until they collapsed and new governments were imposed, perhaps he qualifies for a t-shirt.

    But there’s no Constitutional way he qualifies as a “War President” now, nor should Congress be enabling him to continue shredding the Constitution under that feeble excuse. I certainly hope that you and all the voters of America will send that message this fall, Laura.


    Psychoblues


    Before you start accusing me, this is a plaguerism but it is no joke. Get it?


    Psychoblues
     
  2. insein
    Offline

    insein Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    6,096
    Thanks Received:
    356
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Philadelphia, Amazing huh...
    Ratings:
    +356
    Like people give 2 shits what you think. And it's plagiarism, dumbass.
     
  3. USMCDevilDog
    Offline

    USMCDevilDog Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Messages:
    412
    Thanks Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Alexandria, Virginia
    Ratings:
    +42
    Ok...that was sad. :lame2:
     
  4. CSM
    Offline

    CSM Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    6,907
    Thanks Received:
    708
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Northeast US
    Ratings:
    +708
    How truly sad.
     
  5. theHawk
    Offline

    theHawk Registered Conservative

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    10,912
    Thanks Received:
    2,072
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Location:
    Germany
    Ratings:
    +5,802
    Can someone give psycho his lolly-pop for the day?




    :baby4:
     
  6. Avatar4321
    Offline

    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    70,568
    Thanks Received:
    8,170
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +12,201
    Can anyone take any of this bosh seriously? Are we to believe that someone despite the fact that the President has lead our troops to liberate two nations from hostile regimes in our war on terror, that he is not a war President?

    BTW, I dont know that President Bush has ever said that he is a war President. Quite honestly I have no clue why he would have to say it. Anyone with half a brain can recognize the fact that a President who leads our troops at war is a War President.

    And if you want to know why President Bush is a War President. watch United 93. and remember what happened that day.
     
  7. Psychoblues
    Offline

    Psychoblues Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    2,701
    Thanks Received:
    142
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    North Missisippi
    Ratings:
    +143
    I watched it. Incredible heroism. GWB any part of that? No. Any part of the heroism in Viet Nam? Also, NO. GWB is not what you think he is despite the millions spent to promote and excuse his otherwise short comings as a veteran and an American.

    Anybody got any specific disagreements with the article? I didn't think so. Read it and weep.

    Psychoblues

    PS. I admitted it was plagerism. So what?



     
  8. Stephanie
    Offline

    Stephanie Diamond Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    Messages:
    70,236
    Thanks Received:
    10,818
    Trophy Points:
    2,040
    Ratings:
    +27,360
    You know.. If I mailed a letter like that to my niece... I would hope.

    The next time she saw me, she would slap me...


    :teeth:
     
  9. Avatar4321
    Offline

    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    70,568
    Thanks Received:
    8,170
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +12,201
    Yeah, I did have criticisms of the article. In fact, i told you what they are. But rather than deal with the criticisms, you went on a rant on President Bush.

    My point of view is anyone who volunteered for the conflict in Vietnam regardless or not they were actually sent there is pretty heroic. I think anyone who service in the military is heroic. Of course, I doubt you will admit that. Because then youd have to admit that President Bush had guts volunteering. However, for some reason you want us to believe that President Bush was dodging the draft by volunteering to serve.

    BTW Plagariarism is illegal.
     
  10. Psychoblues
    Offline

    Psychoblues Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    2,701
    Thanks Received:
    142
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    North Missisippi
    Ratings:
    +143
    Lemme git this strate. you tole me about critisisms, i didn't git it. cud u git it more simpler? I volunteered, not once but three (that's 3 for the you) times in Viet Nam and served there proudly with every ounce of energy, youth and patriotism that I could muster. I had a few high school buddies that joined the National Guard at that time and ridiculed me for going genuine "ACTIVE". Like me, they couldn't do the college thing. Fuckem, but they are still my buddies. I did what I thought, at the time, was right. Correct? I would go to Canada if given the same choice, opportunity and education that I have today. Young troops are really gullibe, don't you know? The Air Force, at least to me, was more preferable with it's guarantee of civilian equated and transferrable skills training. My particular skills training brought much more challenge and danger than I ever imagined. I loved it and I still do. The pResident never completed his training or even showed up for his appointments. It's a PC (Politically Connected) thing as we knew it back then. Hands off, as we were told.


    A hero? Thanks for the admiration, but really, I don't need it. Who does?

    Psychoblues
     

Share This Page