War on Drugs Destroying Nations

[Modbert]

They accept it about RFK because Sirhan Sirhan confessed; whereas Oswald was murdered before going to trial.

True but everybody has a price.

Though with Sirhan Sirhan, I'm not exactly sure but I do know that all the pieces do not fit nor do all the numbers add up.

 

[indago]

I say legalise them. Seriously. and prostitution, too.

Prostitution is already legalized, in the Congress...

Maybe that's why they call it Congress...



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[elvis]

I say legalise them. Seriously. and prostitution, too.

Prostitution is already legalized, in the Congress...

Maybe that's why they call it Congress...



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good point.

 

[editec]

sure, lets legalize recreational drugs
maybe then half the nutjobs that voted for Obama would be too wasted to vote

Perhaps I was high when I voted for Obama. But the next day I was not high.

Now, what's your excuse for voting for Bush twice?

Here's my thinking...drugs only make you dumb when you're high.

But natural stupidity like that of the Bushites just goes on and on and on...

 

[Munin]

The problem is more when their is no war against drugs, then the power of druglords becomes so great that they begin to control countries. As a result you will create a failed state that is bought by druglords with the big amounts of money that they earn.

I disagree.

The druglords are criminals outside the rule of law. These are not people who would otherwise become CEOs if drugs hadn't been outlawed. Our policies make criminals massively wealthy.

When prohibition ended, the mafia didn't go straight. They went into other illicit activities.

The War on Drugs is a crippling policy that corrupts and rots the system from within. It creates unstable nations in America's sphere of influence and even right on its own borders.

The mafia is a generalizing term, the mafia still exists and some of them are now legal (Las Vegas) not because of their actions but because of the actions of the government. The problem is that when a mafia group becomes too powerful they begin to control parts of the government, justice, ... : Money is power.


Also modern day mafia are not the guys walking with guns on the streets, no they are guys in nice suits that are respected by everyone because of the legal business efforts. They buy stocks, ... with the money they made by drugs and so on.


And no, I don't say this because I ve seen to many mafia movies: this is because of the fact that people with money are people with power. And a well know thing in business is: the more risk it takes, the more money it will make. Drugs still is one of the most profiting businesses that there are.


You also need to see the reason why this drugs war is destabilizing, it is because of failed policies in the past that made the druglords powerful enough to become a destabilizing factor to the whole society when someone now tries to let them abide by the law and puts them in jail. The solution for the government is not to adjust the law, it is to reducing the power of the druglords that is the best solution.

It is simply not an option for a government to not enforce the law, because it would mean that the government is no longer the government and the country has turned into a failed state.

And as you said, when we should legalize something then the mafia will just turn to something other illegal that brings more profits. This will cause the government to legalize on demand of the mafia, this is not an option: it is replacing the power of the government and destroying the democracy (the mafia decides which laws there should be).

 

[Skeptik]

I kept waiting for someone to get him. has sirhan sirhan ever had a parole hearing? The Kennedys will make sure he never gets out, no matter how liberal they claim to be.

Sirhan Sirhan was denied parole for the 13th time in 2006 if I remember correctly. The next time he goes up is 2011. He gets one every five years. He didn't even attend the last one.

Personally, I do believe Sirhan Sirhan was merely a puppet and that RFK was killed for ulterior motives. Probably by the same people who got JFK killed because everyone knows the first thing that Bobby would of done in office was a investigation on Jack's death.

Bobby made a lot of enemies as attorney general. a lot of POWERFUL enemies. Hoffa, Hoover, Gianacana . If Sirhan didn't act alone, I would say it was the mafia.

If enough powerful enemies wish you dead, the chances are you will wind up dead sooner or later. It is unlikely that those enemies will ever be brought to justice, as they will use their power to make sure that the facts never surface.

That's just a general statement, of course. I don't know who killed either of the Kennedys either.

 

[DiveCon]

sure, lets legalize recreational drugs
maybe then half the nutjobs that voted for Obama would be too wasted to vote

Perhaps I was high when I voted for Obama. But the next day I was not high.

Now, what's your excuse for voting for Bush twice?

Here's my thinking...drugs only make you dumb when you're high.

But natural stupidity like that of the Bushites just goes on and on and on...

because i dont burn my brain out getting high in the first place
and he was by far better than the fucking morons the democrats put up
i NEVER voted for him in a primary

 

[Diuretic]

while i like that they dealt with Jeffery Dalhmer that way
i thought the idea behind prisons was to rehabilitate
not to use to do what you find distasteful to do

Actually, I've never thought of prisons as a place to rehabiliate as drugs are just as easy just more expensive to get on the inside. (Most drugs go for 10x their street value in prison). Prison is seen as more of a place to "banish" people from society while being humane about it and more drying them out then rehabiliating them.

Prions should be about habiltation and rehabilitation. Programmes do work, Canada has a good one. Not everyone can be habilitated or rehabilitated of course, then a prison is a place to keep them to give society a rest from them. Prisons used to be places for punishment (torture), now they are the punishment.

 

[elvis]

while i like that they dealt with Jeffery Dalhmer that way
i thought the idea behind prisons was to rehabilitate
not to use to do what you find distasteful to do

Actually, I've never thought of prisons as a place to rehabiliate as drugs are just as easy just more expensive to get on the inside. (Most drugs go for 10x their street value in prison). Prison is seen as more of a place to "banish" people from society while being humane about it and more drying them out then rehabiliating them.

Prions should be about habiltation and rehabilitation. Programmes do work, Canada has a good one. Not everyone can be habilitated or rehabilitated of course, then a prison is a place to keep them to give society a rest from them. Prisons used to be places for punishment (torture), now they are the punishment.

if canada's really work , I would love to see the plan. America has about a 70 percent recidivism rate.

 

[Diuretic]

It's about case management and of course proper resources. We follow the same model but I would put money on it that we've under-resourced it. I don't understand why people think resourcing rehab programmes in prison is a bad thing because it beats letting them out worse than when they came in.

Department of Justice Correctional Services, Adelaide, South Australia · Welcome

Correctional Service of Canada Programs

I think ours is about 30% or thereabouts, it fluctuates obviously.

 

[Modbert]

Prions should be about habiltation and rehabilitation. Programmes do work, Canada has a good one. Not everyone can be habilitated or rehabilitated of course, then a prison is a place to keep them to give society a rest from them. Prisons used to be places for punishment (torture), now they are the punishment.

Oh don't get me wrong, I agree. I'm simply stating how and what the current prison system in America is used for.

 

[Diuretic]

Oh don't get me wrong, I agree. I'm simply stating how and what the current prison system in America is used for.

I've only been in two US prisons and they were both closed (Alcatraz and Yuma) and only in a couple of county jails (LA and San Diego) so I can't make any firsthand comments. But it does seem that some of the big ones such as Angola in La, I think that's the right name, are just places to hold large numbers of prisoners until they are executed, die of old age or illness or are let out again at the end of their sentence. I would like to think that rehabilitation is desired or possible, but I'm not sure.

I did see a great documentary about a facility in Idaho I think it was, Cottonwood? Yes, here it is

North Idaho Correctional Institution - Idaho Department of Correction

The doco was made by voc ed students from, I think, Spokane and I don't know if it's widely available but I used to use it with my students. It was a real bootcamp, disciplinary approach but it did seek to give the inmates a sense of pride in themselves. A liberal might think it was too tough but I thought it was an effective programme for many, if not all, inmates.

 

[Modbert]

I've only been in two US prisons and they were both closed (Alcatraz and Yuma) and only in a couple of county jails (LA and San Diego) so I can't make any firsthand comments. But it does seem that some of the big ones such as Angola in La, I think that's the right name, are just places to hold large numbers of prisoners until they are executed, die of old age or illness or are let out again at the end of their sentence. I would like to think that rehabilitation is desired or possible, but I'm not sure.

I did see a great documentary about a facility in Idaho I think it was, Cottonwood? Yes, here it is

North Idaho Correctional Institution - Idaho Department of Correction

The doco was made by voc ed students from, I think, Spokane and I don't know if it's widely available but I used to use it with my students. It was a real bootcamp, disciplinary approach but it did seek to give the inmates a sense of pride in themselves. A liberal might think it was too tough but I thought it was an effective programme for many, if not all, inmates.

To what I bolded, you're 100% right about. And interesting link right there, I'll have to look at it.