Want to see some REAL class warfare?

[Mustang]

All the recent talk about Obama engaging in class warfare against the rich makes me laugh...and it makes me angry. The rich in this country haven't had it so good since the gilded age. I'm not just talking about accumulated wealth. I'm talking about having special rights that the rest of us, whether liberal or conservative, don't have.

Here's a case in point:

In July 2010, Martin Joel Erzinger, a $1 Billion hedge fund manager working for Morgan Stanley Smith Barney, was driving his Mercedes near Vail, CO when he hit a bicyclist from behind, seriously injuring him. Then he sped away without stopping, without calling the police OR calling for an ambulance. He DID, however, stop some time later...to call the Mercedes auto assistance service to report damage to his vehicle and have it towed.

Erzinger committed TWO felonies but was only charged for 2 misdemeanors because DA Hulbert said charging him with felonies would negatively affect his career. Is that right? Wouldn't that be the same for anyone? I mean, if you or I had committed the same crime, would it negatively affect our careers to be charged with 2 felonies. After all, people DO go to jail for such things. And people lose their jobs when they go to jail, right? You can read about the case below.

DA Hurlbert won't press felony charges against hit-and-run driver because it might affect his job | SummitDaily.com

In 1970, the prison population in the US was about 190,000 people. In 2008, the US had 2.2 million people in prison. Today, The Economist estimates that number stands at around 2.4 million people. That means that today, there are 12.5 TIMES as many people in prison then just 40 years ago. From which class of people do you think our gov't is sending to prison?

Ask yourself this question! Has anyone involved in the financial meltdown of 2008 gone to prision? To trial? Has there even been any criminal investigation?

How about when the Bush administration broke the law and engaged in warrantless wiretaps. They broke the law? Any consequences? The telecom companies ALSO broke the law. Congress gave them retroactive immunity.

Remember Iran Contra? Bush 41 pardoned 6 Reagan administration officials.

Ronald Reagan issued a pardon to Mark Felt, a former FBI agent, who had authorized the break-ins of homes on 9 separate occasions in a search for evidence against suspected Weatherman Underground members. They broke into their families homes, as well.

Of course, everyone remembers Ford's pardon of Nixon. It might interest everyone to know that France just convicted Jacques Chirac, the former president of France, for corruption.

What happened to America being a nation of laws and not men?

Today, I guess the powerful don't need pardons. That's because they're not prosecuted. There's no plea bargain because they're not even charged with a crime. There's not even an investigation.

There's your class warfare. Nowadays, the rich and powerful rarely get charged with serious crimes. But if they do get charged, they get pardoned for their crimes. Or maybe just a commutation of sentence like for Scooter Libby.

And what happens to the 'lower classes' who don't have powerful friends or a lot of money? Our gov't throws the book at them, and they get longer and longer prision sentences for ever more minor offenses and victimless crimes.

That's why the US has the largest prison population in the world, in both numbers, and as a percentage of the population.

For example, China, with a population of 1.3 Billion people only has a prison population of 1,600,000. The US, with less than 25% of their population, has 700,000 more people in jail.

So, please stop trying to make everyone feel pity for the wealthy in this country who are richer than ever and are paying a lower tax rate than they have in decades. That's not where the class warfare problem exists. It exists on the other end of the spectrum.

But if you don't believe me, if you ever get in trouble with the law, try telling a DA that a criminal conviction would hurt your career. See how far that gets you.

 

[westwall]

A very clear miscarriage of justice. I wonder how much the DA cost to be bought off. One million? Two? Ten? Whatever the amount was, I hope he sold his soul and his ethics for a high amount.

 

[Mustang]

A very clear miscarriage of justice. I wonder how much the DA cost to be bought off. One million? Two? Ten? Whatever the amount was, I hope he sold his soul and his ethics for a high amount.

That case is only one example of a systemic problem that pervades the entire criminal justice system.

Hell, I didn't even mention the fact that rich people can afford better legal counsel. After all, do you think O J Simpson would have gotten away with murder in the 90's without his 'dream team'?

 

[Jackson]

I agree on the miscarriage of justice. laws should be for everyone.

 

[Uncensored2008]

That case is only one example of a systemic problem that pervades the entire criminal justice system.

Hell, I didn't even mention the fact that rich people can afford better legal counsel. After all, do you think O J Simpson would have gotten away with murder in the 90's without his 'dream team'?

OJ wasn't alone. Robert Blake murdered his wife and walked. Phil Specter walked the first time.

In California, we have a clause, "Not Guilty by reason of celebrity."

 

[occupied]

The very threat of a prosecution made hideously expensive by a billionaire's legal team is enough to give them a get out of jail free card most of the time. Probably didn't even sell out, just didn't have the budget to fight a protracted court battle.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The very threat of a prosecution made hideously expensive by a billionaire's legal team is enough to give them a get out of jail free card most of the time. Probably didn't even sell out, just didn't have the budget to fight a protracted court battle.

What would your solution be?

Why should the legal team of a billionaire increase the cost of prosecution? The DA will still draw the same salary, as will the police investigating.

 

[California Girl]

For the record: there is no 'class' in the United States of America. It is not a class based society. 'Class warfare' is what politicians use to divide Americans from each other - because that makes it easier for them to rob us all.

Only fucking morons support Democrats or Republicans. You people are the problem.

 

[Flopper]

I agree on the miscarriage of justice. laws should be for everyone.

It is far more likely that a poor person committing a crime will be convicted, but there's a lot more to the issue than just convictions. A wealthy person is less likely to be charged. If he is, then he will have better lawyers. If convicted, he will get a lighter sentence. Once in prison, he more likely to be paroled. This is nothing new.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I agree on the miscarriage of justice. laws should be for everyone.

Everyone means Congress and all other elected officials and bureaucrats, doesn't it?

 

[G.T.]

For the record: there is no 'class' in the United States of America. It is not a class based society. 'Class warfare' is what politicians use to divide Americans from each other - because that makes it easier for them to rob us all.

Only fucking morons support Democrats or Republicans. You people are the problem.

ayup

 

[Leweman]

I agree on the miscarriage of justice. laws should be for everyone.

It is far more likely that a poor person committing a crime will be convicted, but there's a lot more to the issue than just convictions. A wealthy person is less likely to be charged. If he is, then he will have better lawyers. If convicted, he will get a lighter sentence. Once in prison, he more likely to be paroled. This is nothing new.

Yes this is said ... it's the same reason so many in Hollywood get away with pedophilia. It's a separate set of standards. It's bull crap.

 

[Mustang]

I agree on the miscarriage of justice. laws should be for everyone.

Sometimes it's hard to know which element is more outrageous. Certainly, the numerous injustices of our legal system is at the top of the list.

Want an example? The differences between sentences meted out for crack cocaine versus powder cocaine.

Five grams of crack cocaine yields about 10-50 doses. It also subject the people who are convicted of that much cocaine to a five-year mandatory sentence.

For the same sentence to be triggered for powder cocaine, a defendant would have to be arrested with an amount of 500 grams which yields 2,500-5,000 doses. That's 100 times the amount in terms of both quantity and dosage.

The other difference? Powder cocaine, which was more expensive, was, far and away, the preferred type of cocaine that white suburban users bought and used. Crack cocaine was far more prevalent in the black community.

So, a black person could have far less cocaine in his possession and still receive a much harsher sentence.

That is REAL class warfare, folks!

 

[Uncensored2008]

I still haven't heard any suggestions for a better system.

 

[WillowTree]

For the record: there is no 'class' in the United States of America. It is not a class based society. 'Class warfare' is what politicians use to divide Americans from each other - because that makes it easier for them to rob us all.

Only fucking morons support Democrats or Republicans. You people are the problem.

well sugar, we're a society of a two party system,, so what would you suggest?

 

[martybegan]

Martin Erzinger: Morgan Stanley Manager's Hit-and-Run Controversy - ABC News

here is another link to the story.

According to this the 2 misdemeanors are due to a plea deal, and the guy is pleading guilty to it. Furthermore it is his first offense, and no drugs or alcohol were involved.

In most juristictions if it is your first offense you can usually get anything below attempted murder or rape plead down to a lesser charge.

Also, now that he has plead guilty the victim can sue the living shit out of him. THAT is where the more well off can get slammed by the system. There will be 100 lawyers willing to take this case, and a deal won't come cheap for the driver. If you also read down, the whole thing about not affecting his livelyhood is explained as making sure he can still afford resitution.

 

[RDD_1210]

For the record: there is no 'class' in the United States of America. It is not a class based society. 'Class warfare' is what politicians use to divide Americans from each other - because that makes it easier for them to rob us all.

Only fucking morons support Democrats or Republicans. You people are the problem.

LOL, please let us know how much better you are than "us common folk".

The ego on you is stunning.

 

[Mustang]

For the record: there is no 'class' in the United States of America. It is not a class based society. 'Class warfare' is what politicians use to divide Americans from each other - because that makes it easier for them to rob us all.

Only fucking morons support Democrats or Republicans. You people are the problem.

You're confusing the word, "class," with the word, "caste,"

We don't have a caste system like India (or England, to a lesser extent).

But we do have a class system. Money and power are the usual determinants.

 

[westwall]

I agree on the miscarriage of justice. laws should be for everyone.

It is far more likely that a poor person committing a crime will be convicted, but there's a lot more to the issue than just convictions. A wealthy person is less likely to be charged. If he is, then he will have better lawyers. If convicted, he will get a lighter sentence. Once in prison, he more likely to be paroled. This is nothing new.

Yep, and in the worst case buy a presidential pardon.

 

[westwall]

For the record: there is no 'class' in the United States of America. It is not a class based society. 'Class warfare' is what politicians use to divide Americans from each other - because that makes it easier for them to rob us all.

Only fucking morons support Democrats or Republicans. You people are the problem.

You're confusing the word, "class," with the word, "caste,"

We don't have a caste system like India (or England, to a lesser extent).

But we do have a class system. Money and power are the usual determinants.

California Girl is correct. We don't have a Class sytem yet. That carries major implications within society. If you are of the upper class in England (whether you are rich or not) there are doors open to you that no amount of money will buy entry into. The same holds true for India as well.

Here in the States you can buy entry through any door you see.