Wall Street VS. OWS: Who's Winning This War?

[ShackledNation]

I voted for Occupy on the grounds that prior to its emergence Wall Street was unopposed. The fact that an opposition has arisen where there was none means that the opposition is winning, although there are many battles yet to fight.

As usual, my friends on the right have no clue what the movement is about or even where the battlefield lies, and so are evaluating it based on false criteria (e.g. how the stock market is doing). The target has always been, not Wall Street itself, but the corrupt influence of Wall Street over the government, so forget the stock prices and try to evaluate that. It's still in existence, of course, but the fact that the subject is being addressed in politics now and that liberalism in the Democratic Party is starting to show feeble signs of life counts as a victory.

As for the effect on the dialog, let's see what comes up in a Google search for "income inequality":

Debating the future of the middle class - latimes.com

Income inequality: The not-quite-winning issue | StarTribune.com

AFP: Obama challenges rivals on US income inequality

Obama and income inequality | The Salt Lake Tribune

And for "campaign finance" or "campaign finance reform":

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/31/us/politics/restore-our-future-attack-ads-harm-gingrich-in-iowa.html

City's 'Pay to Play' Campaign Law Survives Lawsuit - NYTimes.com

Best Of: Occupy Wall Street group protests at campaign finance HQ | Florida Independent

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/books/republic-lost-campaign-finance-reform-book-review.html

Ill. task force offers public financing options - BusinessWeek

So there you go. As usual, Occupy can quote Mark Twain regarding exaggeration of the reports of its demise.

The media is predisposed to support a movement like Occupy Wallstreet, so I don't find that argument very persuasive.

Your premise that nobody has challenged wallstreet is also incorrect. Libertarians have been criticizing the government wallstreet collusion for decades. The tea party also criticized the bailouts given to wallstreet and the banks.

 

[saveliberty]

Maybe you should look up violent protests or lack of leadership and direction. These anarchists have only hurt middle class working folks.

 

[Crackerjack]

Deregulation of the banking industry throughout the '80s, '90s and the first decade of the new century gave Wall Street the "free market" necessary for sustained examples of control fraud. The results were inevitable, leading to the steepest recession since the Great Depression.

Yeah, deregulation. Go with that.

People that work in the financial sector can't scratch their ass without filling out four forms for various government agencies.

 

[paulitician]

OWS certainly hasn't hurt Wall Street. In fact,it looks like they may have even helped them. Their Booming.

 

[georgephillip]

"Undue corporate influence on politics is one of the mainstay complaints of the Occupy movement and it did not go unnoticed in this city (San Francisco).

"'When I arrived at Justin Herman Plaza [renamed Bradley Manning Plaza by Occupy] the General Assembly was just beginning and people were standing in a circle in the park, holding a meeting – the very definition of peaceful assembly. Suddenly we were surrounded by riot cops brandishing nightsticks. We never even heard a dispersal order.”

"Emma was trapped with about 50 others inside the police perimeter for over three hours.

“'At first, people went up to the police and asked if they could leave. The cops refused to talk. Anyone who approached the police line was struck with nightsticks and one man was seriously injured.

"'I was pretty scared. The cops didn’t arrest us but they kept us trapped in the park under threat of physical harm.'"

Low Friends in High Places: Triad of Business, Cops and Politicians Attack Occupy | Truthout

 

[paulitician]

"Undue corporate influence on politics is one of the mainstay complaints of the Occupy movement and it did not go unnoticed in this city (San Francisco).

"'When I arrived at Justin Herman Plaza [renamed Bradley Manning Plaza by Occupy] the General Assembly was just beginning and people were standing in a circle in the park, holding a meeting – the very definition of peaceful assembly. Suddenly we were surrounded by riot cops brandishing nightsticks. We never even heard a dispersal order.”

"Emma was trapped with about 50 others inside the police perimeter for over three hours.

“'At first, people went up to the police and asked if they could leave. The cops refused to talk. Anyone who approached the police line was struck with nightsticks and one man was seriously injured.

"'I was pretty scared. The cops didn’t arrest us but they kept us trapped in the park under threat of physical harm.'"

Low Friends in High Places: Triad of Business, Cops and Politicians Attack Occupy | Truthout

Well if true,that is wrong and tragic. Our Police Force has become Militarized and that does concern me. I watched a good Documentary on that the other night. Our Police Force is being trained on Para-Military tactics. It is starting to look a little scary. I fully support peaceful protests and i do believe our Police need to be re-trained on dealing with their fellow Citizens. The Para-Military approach is just wrong.

They have grossly over-reacted in some of these protests. I don't like where this is headed. Dressed in Black with all those weapons? Reminds me a little too much of the you-know-whos in that place in Europe. All Citizens should be concerned with our Police and their militarization. That's not what America is about.

 

[The T]

"Undue corporate influence on politics is one of the mainstay complaints of the Occupy movement and it did not go unnoticed in this city (San Francisco).

"'When I arrived at Justin Herman Plaza [renamed Bradley Manning Plaza by Occupy] the General Assembly was just beginning and people were standing in a circle in the park, holding a meeting – the very definition of peaceful assembly. Suddenly we were surrounded by riot cops brandishing nightsticks. We never even heard a dispersal order.”

"Emma was trapped with about 50 others inside the police perimeter for over three hours.

“'At first, people went up to the police and asked if they could leave. The cops refused to talk. Anyone who approached the police line was struck with nightsticks and one man was seriously injured.

"'I was pretty scared. The cops didn’t arrest us but they kept us trapped in the park under threat of physical harm.'"

Low Friends in High Places: Triad of Business, Cops and Politicians Attack Occupy | Truthout

Well if true,that is wrong and tragic. Our Police Force has become Militarized and that does concern me. I watched a good Documentary on that the other night. Our Police Force is being trained on Para-Military tactics. It is starting to look a little scary. I fully support peaceful protests and i do believe our Police need to be re-trained on dealing with their fellow Citizens. The Para-Military approach is just wrong.

They have grossly over-reacted in some of these protests. I don't like where this is headed. Dressed in Black with all those weapons? Reminds me a little too much of the you-know-whos in that place in Europe. All Citizens should be concerned with our Police and their militarization. That's not what America is about.

Flies in the face of posse Commitatus Act...IF the Military can't do it...train Domestic LE to do it. Scary indeed.

 

[georgephillip]

Deregulation of the banking industry throughout the '80s, '90s and the first decade of the new century gave Wall Street the "free market" necessary for sustained examples of control fraud. The results were inevitable, leading to the steepest recession since the Great Depression.

Yeah, deregulation. Go with that.

People that work in the financial sector can't scratch their ass without filling out four forms for various government agencies.

Yeah, exactly. Removing restrictions among banking companies, securities companies and insurance companies had nothing to do with Wall Street's latest looting.

In the same way Gramm-Leach-Bliley's repeal of conflict of interest restraints "against simultaneous service by any officer. director, or employee of a securities firm as an officer, director, or employee of any member bank had nothing to do with the 2007 subprime mortgage financial crisis.

 

[The T]

Deregulation of the banking industry throughout the '80s, '90s and the first decade of the new century gave Wall Street the "free market" necessary for sustained examples of control fraud. The results were inevitable, leading to the steepest recession since the Great Depression.

Yeah, deregulation. Go with that.

People that work in the financial sector can't scratch their ass without filling out four forms for various government agencies.

Yeah, exactly. Removing restrictions among banking companies, securities companies and insurance companies had nothing to do with Wall Street's latest looting.

In the same way Gramm-Leach-Bliley's repeal of conflict of interest restraints "against simultaneous service by any officer. director, or employee of a securities firm as an officer, director, or employee of any member bank had nothing to do with the 2007 subprime mortgage financial crisis.

WHY does government tinker with liberties of the free market exactly:?

 

[georgephillip]

"Undue corporate influence on politics is one of the mainstay complaints of the Occupy movement and it did not go unnoticed in this city (San Francisco).

"'When I arrived at Justin Herman Plaza [renamed Bradley Manning Plaza by Occupy] the General Assembly was just beginning and people were standing in a circle in the park, holding a meeting – the very definition of peaceful assembly. Suddenly we were surrounded by riot cops brandishing nightsticks. We never even heard a dispersal order.”

"Emma was trapped with about 50 others inside the police perimeter for over three hours.

“'At first, people went up to the police and asked if they could leave. The cops refused to talk. Anyone who approached the police line was struck with nightsticks and one man was seriously injured.

"'I was pretty scared. The cops didn’t arrest us but they kept us trapped in the park under threat of physical harm.'"

Low Friends in High Places: Triad of Business, Cops and Politicians Attack Occupy | Truthout

Well if true,that is wrong and tragic. Our Police Force has become Militarized and that does concern me. I watched a good Documentary on that the other night. Our Police Force is being trained on Para-Military tactics. It is starting to look a little scary. I fully support peaceful protests and i do believe our Police need to be re-trained on dealing with their fellow Citizens. The Para-Military approach is just wrong.

They have grossly over-reacted in some of these protests. I don't like where this is headed. Dressed in Black with all those weapons? Reminds me a little too much of the you-know-whos in that place in Europe. All Citizens should be concerned with our Police and their militarization. That's not what America is about.

At least these particular officers didn't play favorites:

"' Adding some comic relief to the situation was the single "one percenter" who was trapped with us. Despite hollering repeatedly that, "I’m not with them" and summoning his lawyer to the scene, the man was not allowed to leave the area either.”

"Shaw San Liu, the activist with CPA, was also encircled by the cops and said of that evening: 'What is this if not harassment and intimidation aimed at discouraging peaceful dissent?'”

I agree. The militarization of domestic law enforcement since 9/11 is a bigger threat to civil rights in the US than anything I've seen in my 64 years. The connection between the police and corporations like Hyatt is turning public law enforcement into a Praetorian Guard for the 1%.

Low Friends in High Places: Triad of Business, Cops and Politicians Attack Occupy | Truthout

 

[PredFan]

I voted for Occupy on the grounds that prior to its emergence Wall Street was unopposed. The fact that an opposition has arisen where there was none means that the opposition is winning, although there are many battles yet to fight.

As usual, my friends on the right have no clue what the movement is about or even where the battlefield lies, and so are evaluating it based on false criteria (e.g. how the stock market is doing). The target has always been, not Wall Street itself, but the corrupt influence of Wall Street over the government, so forget the stock prices and try to evaluate that. It's still in existence, of course, but the fact that the subject is being addressed in politics now and that liberalism in the Democratic Party is starting to show feeble signs of life counts as a victory.

As for the effect on the dialog, let's see what comes up in a Google search for "income inequality":

Debating the future of the middle class - latimes.com

Income inequality: The not-quite-winning issue | StarTribune.com

AFP: Obama challenges rivals on US income inequality

Obama and income inequality | The Salt Lake Tribune

And for "campaign finance" or "campaign finance reform":

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/31/us/politics/restore-our-future-attack-ads-harm-gingrich-in-iowa.html

City's 'Pay to Play' Campaign Law Survives Lawsuit - NYTimes.com

Best Of: Occupy Wall Street group protests at campaign finance HQ | Florida Independent

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/books/republic-lost-campaign-finance-reform-book-review.html

Ill. task force offers public financing options - BusinessWeek

So there you go. As usual, Occupy can quote Mark Twain regarding exaggeration of the reports of its demise.

The media is predisposed to support a movement like Occupy Wallstreet, so I don't find that argument very persuasive.

Your premise that nobody has challenged wallstreet is also incorrect. Libertarians have been criticizing the government wallstreet collusion for decades. The tea party also criticized the bailouts given to wallstreet and the banks.

Dragon is pretty much wrong all the time. Nothing new there.

 

[The T]

I voted for Occupy on the grounds that prior to its emergence Wall Street was unopposed. The fact that an opposition has arisen where there was none means that the opposition is winning, although there are many battles yet to fight.

As usual, my friends on the right have no clue what the movement is about or even where the battlefield lies, and so are evaluating it based on false criteria (e.g. how the stock market is doing). The target has always been, not Wall Street itself, but the corrupt influence of Wall Street over the government, so forget the stock prices and try to evaluate that. It's still in existence, of course, but the fact that the subject is being addressed in politics now and that liberalism in the Democratic Party is starting to show feeble signs of life counts as a victory.

As for the effect on the dialog, let's see what comes up in a Google search for "income inequality":

Debating the future of the middle class - latimes.com

Income inequality: The not-quite-winning issue | StarTribune.com

AFP: Obama challenges rivals on US income inequality

Obama and income inequality | The Salt Lake Tribune

And for "campaign finance" or "campaign finance reform":

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/31/u...-future-attack-ads-harm-gingrich-in-iowa.html

City's 'Pay to Play' Campaign Law Survives Lawsuit - NYTimes.com

Best Of: Occupy Wall Street group protests at campaign finance HQ | Florida Independent

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/books/republic-lost-campaign-finance-reform-book-review.html

Ill. task force offers public financing options - BusinessWeek

So there you go. As usual, Occupy can quote Mark Twain regarding exaggeration of the reports of its demise.

The media is predisposed to support a movement like Occupy Wallstreet, so I don't find that argument very persuasive.

Your premise that nobody has challenged wallstreet is also incorrect. Libertarians have been criticizing the government wallstreet collusion for decades. The tea party also criticized the bailouts given to wallstreet and the banks.

Dragon is pretty much wrong all the time. Nothing new there.

Communists/ Fascists usually ARE wrong.

YES dragoon...that means YOU.

 

[PredFan]

"Undue corporate influence on politics is one of the mainstay complaints of the Occupy movement and it did not go unnoticed in this city (San Francisco).

"'When I arrived at Justin Herman Plaza [renamed Bradley Manning Plaza by Occupy] the General Assembly was just beginning and people were standing in a circle in the park, holding a meeting – the very definition of peaceful assembly. Suddenly we were surrounded by riot cops brandishing nightsticks. We never even heard a dispersal order.”

"Emma was trapped with about 50 others inside the police perimeter for over three hours.

“'At first, people went up to the police and asked if they could leave. The cops refused to talk. Anyone who approached the police line was struck with nightsticks and one man was seriously injured.

"'I was pretty scared. The cops didn’t arrest us but they kept us trapped in the park under threat of physical harm.'"

Low Friends in High Places: Triad of Business, Cops and Politicians Attack Occupy | Truthout

Ha ha, good.

 

[Dragon]

The media is predisposed to support a movement like Occupy Wallstreet, so I don't find that argument very persuasive.

Well, it was in response to something someone else said about the disappearance of Occupy and its issues from the media. I wasn't presenting it as proof of anything beyond disproof of that. However, I disagree. The mainstream media are corporate owned and corporate dominated and generally hew to an agenda laid down by the owners. Those owners and Occupy are on opposite sides of the fence, and they would have greatly preferred to ignore Occupy, which they did for a long time.

Your premise that nobody has challenged wallstreet is also incorrect. Libertarians have been criticizing the government wallstreet collusion for decades. The tea party also criticized the bailouts given to wallstreet and the banks.

Ah, you are correct. It was nonetheless a significant addition to the equation.

 

[georgephillip]

Yeah, deregulation. Go with that.

People that work in the financial sector can't scratch their ass without filling out four forms for various government agencies.

Yeah, exactly. Removing restrictions among banking companies, securities companies and insurance companies had nothing to do with Wall Street's latest looting.

In the same way Gramm-Leach-Bliley's repeal of conflict of interest restraints "against simultaneous service by any officer. director, or employee of a securities firm as an officer, director, or employee of any member bank had nothing to do with the 2007 subprime mortgage financial crisis.

WHY does government tinker with liberties of the free market exactly:?

Are you defining "free market" the same way Adam Smith did, as a market free of undue investor class influence? The working definition of "free market" today seems to require an absence of any meaningful democratic regulation on corporate traders while backstopping any private losses with taxpayer money.

 

[Conservative]

I voted for Occupy on the grounds that prior to its emergence Wall Street was unopposed. The fact that an opposition has arisen where there was none means that the opposition is winning, although there are many battles yet to fight.

As usual, my friends on the right have no clue what the movement is about or even where the battlefield lies, and so are evaluating it based on false criteria (e.g. how the stock market is doing). The target has always been, not Wall Street itself, but the corrupt influence of Wall Street over the government, so forget the stock prices and try to evaluate that. It's still in existence, of course, but the fact that the subject is being addressed in politics now and that liberalism in the Democratic Party is starting to show feeble signs of life counts as a victory.

As for the effect on the dialog, let's see what comes up in a Google search for "income inequality":

Debating the future of the middle class - latimes.com

Income inequality: The not-quite-winning issue | StarTribune.com

AFP: Obama challenges rivals on US income inequality

Obama and income inequality | The Salt Lake Tribune

And for "campaign finance" or "campaign finance reform":

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/31/us/politics/restore-our-future-attack-ads-harm-gingrich-in-iowa.html

City's 'Pay to Play' Campaign Law Survives Lawsuit - NYTimes.com

Best Of: Occupy Wall Street group protests at campaign finance HQ | Florida Independent

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/books/republic-lost-campaign-finance-reform-book-review.html

Ill. task force offers public financing options - BusinessWeek

So there you go. As usual, Occupy can quote Mark Twain regarding exaggeration of the reports of its demise.

Let me know when these OWS goals have been met...
Stomping out Capitalism

Here is a list of other OWS goals, from their own website...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-ows-has-goals-here-are-the-ows-goals/
yup. Empty page. Seems their primary goal is to stomp out capitalism.

Oh, and don't forget... according to OWS, there is a difference between personal and private property. It's OK for them to take someone else's private property, but it's not ok for someone to take their personal property.

Bunch of fucknuts.

 

[georgephillip]

"Undue corporate influence on politics is one of the mainstay complaints of the Occupy movement and it did not go unnoticed in this city (San Francisco).

"'When I arrived at Justin Herman Plaza [renamed Bradley Manning Plaza by Occupy] the General Assembly was just beginning and people were standing in a circle in the park, holding a meeting – the very definition of peaceful assembly. Suddenly we were surrounded by riot cops brandishing nightsticks. We never even heard a dispersal order.”

"Emma was trapped with about 50 others inside the police perimeter for over three hours.

“'At first, people went up to the police and asked if they could leave. The cops refused to talk. Anyone who approached the police line was struck with nightsticks and one man was seriously injured.

"'I was pretty scared. The cops didn’t arrest us but they kept us trapped in the park under threat of physical harm.'"

Low Friends in High Places: Triad of Business, Cops and Politicians Attack Occupy | Truthout

Ha ha, good.

Good for Hyatt or free speech?

 

[Crackerjack]

Deregulation of the banking industry throughout the '80s, '90s and the first decade of the new century gave Wall Street the "free market" necessary for sustained examples of control fraud. The results were inevitable, leading to the steepest recession since the Great Depression.

Yeah, deregulation. Go with that.

People that work in the financial sector can't scratch their ass without filling out four forms for various government agencies.

Yeah, exactly. Removing restrictions among banking companies, securities companies and insurance companies had nothing to do with Wall Street's latest looting.

In the same way Gramm-Leach-Bliley's repeal of conflict of interest restraints "against simultaneous service by any officer. director, or employee of a securities firm as an officer, director, or employee of any member bank had nothing to do with the 2007 subprime mortgage financial crisis.

First you said deregulation "throughout the '80s, '90s and the first decade of the new century" was to blame. But, when pressed, you showed one whole example from 1999. Signed into law (and still defended) by one Bill Clinton, no less.

So where's the rest of the deregulation you claimed?

 

[PredFan]

"Undue corporate influence on politics is one of the mainstay complaints of the Occupy movement and it did not go unnoticed in this city (San Francisco).

"'When I arrived at Justin Herman Plaza [renamed Bradley Manning Plaza by Occupy] the General Assembly was just beginning and people were standing in a circle in the park, holding a meeting – the very definition of peaceful assembly. Suddenly we were surrounded by riot cops brandishing nightsticks. We never even heard a dispersal order.”

"Emma was trapped with about 50 others inside the police perimeter for over three hours.

“'At first, people went up to the police and asked if they could leave. The cops refused to talk. Anyone who approached the police line was struck with nightsticks and one man was seriously injured.

"'I was pretty scared. The cops didn’t arrest us but they kept us trapped in the park under threat of physical harm.'"

Low Friends in High Places: Triad of Business, Cops and Politicians Attack Occupy | Truthout

Ha ha, good.

Good for Hyatt or free speech?

Good that the Occutards got abused.

 

[The T]

Ha ha, good.

Good for Hyatt or free speech?

Good that the Occutards got abused.

And they should be EARLY and often.