Walker caves.

[Two Thumbs]

Dishonest ameoba like MORON, first you bitch cause Obama was UnCompromising and now you bitch cause he is compromising. you need to eat some worm poop.

How is not closing Gitmo the same as the flee party hating democracy?

I would answer that if I mentioned the flee party hating democracy....

I said it. It's very clear that the flee baggers hate democracy or they would have stayed and worked it out.

But since you are such a nice guy, I will re-word;

How does obama not closing gitmo compare to the WI situation?

Closing gitmo was a horrible idea by a person that had no actual idea what was going on and how important gitmo is.
The other is a Gov having to deal with a bunch of cowardly sissies that refuse to do the job they are paid for.

You see my confusion on how they relate.

 

[Spoonman]

MADISON, Wis. — Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has offered to keep certain collective bargaining rights in place for state workers in a proposed compromise aimed at ending a nearly three-week standoff with absent Senate Democrats, according to e-mails released Tuesday by his office.

Wis. governor proposes union compromise - Politics - More politics - msnbc.com

Looks like Walker is just another typical politician after all....

He moved the needle in the right direction. That's a good thing. Thumbs up to him.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I think the Right is frankly stunned at the amount of nationwide support for unions/collective bargaining rights in this country...

...I think the Right got fooled by their own propagandists into believing that unions were overwhelmingly reviled by the American people.

ha ha

 

[Steve Hanson]

MADISON, Wis. — Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has offered to keep certain collective bargaining rights in place for state workers in a proposed compromise aimed at ending a nearly three-week standoff with absent Senate Democrats, according to e-mails released Tuesday by his office.

Wis. governor proposes union compromise - Politics - More politics - msnbc.com

Looks like Walker is just another typical politician after all....

He got the ball rolling. More changes will follow.

 

[Anachronism]

I think the Right is frankly stunned at the amount of nationwide support for unions/collective bargaining rights in this country...

...I think the Right got fooled by their own propagandists into believing that unions were overwhelmingly reviled by the American people.

I think it's more a matter that the Republicans (who are not right-wingers for the most part) thought that the Democrats were just going to roll over and play dead. They didn't believe that the Dems had the intestinal fortitude to actually pick up their ball and go home.

Now, I would suggest the first thing the WI needs to do is to change their laws to indicate that a simple Quarum (one more than half the assembly) is needed to conduct business, to ensure that neither party can do this again in the future; but that's hindsight.

One side or the other is going to come out of this mess in WI smelling like roses. The other side will come out smelling like manure. It's all going to depend on the PR battle and what the majority of the consituents in the state really believe. Only time will tell which side will be which.

 

[ClosedCaption]

How is not closing Gitmo the same as the flee party hating democracy?

I would answer that if I mentioned the flee party hating democracy....

I said it. It's very clear that the flee baggers hate democracy or they would have stayed and worked it out.

But since you are such a nice guy, I will re-word;

How does obama not closing gitmo compare to the WI situation?

Closing gitmo was a horrible idea by a person that had no actual idea what was going on and how important gitmo is.
The other is a Gov having to deal with a bunch of cowardly sissies that refuse to do the job they are paid for.

You see my confusion on how they relate.

Understood...

See it seems that many conservatives / republicans here do not like the fact that "liberals" wanted Walker to change then when he does they say he's caving in

Compare that to Republicans / Conservatives did not like the fact that Obama said he was going to close Gitmo, now that he's changed they say he's caving in

Both are caving, but conservatives want see Walkers caving as compromising (good thing) and see Obamas compromising as lying to his constituents (bad thing)

See..

 

[Two Thumbs]

I would answer that if I mentioned the flee party hating democracy....

I said it. It's very clear that the flee baggers hate democracy or they would have stayed and worked it out.

But since you are such a nice guy, I will re-word;

How does obama not closing gitmo compare to the WI situation?

Closing gitmo was a horrible idea by a person that had no actual idea what was going on and how important gitmo is.
The other is a Gov having to deal with a bunch of cowardly sissies that refuse to do the job they are paid for.

You see my confusion on how they relate.

Understood...

See it seems that many conservatives / republicans here do not like the fact that "liberals" wanted Walker to change then when he does they say he's caving in

Compare that to Republicans / Conservatives did not like the fact that Obama said he was going to close Gitmo, now that he's changed they say he's caving in

Both are caving, but conservatives want see Walkers caving as compromising (good thing) and see Obamas compromising as lying to his constituents (bad thing)

See..

Crap, outta rep, I shall return.

That's the partisan sword stabbing.

In reality, obama figured out gitmo was a good idea and waited until the situation died down so it could pass under the radar (for the most part). I wouldn't call it a compromise, I'd call it learning a hard truth.

Walker is stuck. Nothing can and will get done unless the flee baggers return and stop holding up democracy. It's clear he was bluffing when he said he would lay off 1500. My guess is that the dems don't give a damn about that as long as the union supports them.

 

[Big Fitz]

Anyway we can keep them out of state for another 2 weeks?

I'd be happy to donate to a fund to make sure they don't come back till after their automatic recall and replacement

 

[Big Fitz]

Under the compromise floated by Walker and detailed in the e-mails, workers would be able to continue bargaining over their salaries with no limit, a change from his original plan that banned negotiated salary increases beyond inflation. He also proposed compromises allowing collective bargaining to stay in place on mandatory overtime, performance bonuses, hazardous duty pay and classroom size for teachers.

Lookie very carefully at what they DID not get to keep: Benefits. Salary is NOT benefits. The key provision that is causing the problem in WI, Pensions and Healthcare is removed from collective bargaining.

Niiiiiice.

And the union and fleebaggers already refused.

 

[Jackson]

Rather than who caved and who won, I rather see that the ending result is something that reflects the needed changes that most agree need to be done and that the taxpayers are benefiting from the changes.

Are poor teachers going to be fired as they should be if they were in a private business?

Are teachers going to pay more toward their benefits as they should since the taxpayers are paying their salaries?

Are small class sizes going to be protected? Are equipment going to be available and repaired?

Will evaluations be fair and done by outside personnel, void of political pressure?

Are teachers going to be allowed to vote if they want to be part of a union?

Can union dues be paid without it being taken out of the checks automatically?

And, can taxpayers be sure the state legislature will continue to do their jobs without running to an adjoining state if they appear to be losing a vote?

 

[Jackson]

Under the compromise floated by Walker and detailed in the e-mails, workers would be able to continue bargaining over their salaries with no limit, a change from his original plan that banned negotiated salary increases beyond inflation. He also proposed compromises allowing collective bargaining to stay in place on mandatory overtime, performance bonuses, hazardous duty pay and classroom size for teachers.

Lookie very carefully at what they DID not get to keep: Benefits. Salary is NOT benefits. The key provision that is causing the problem in WI, Pensions and Healthcare is removed from collective bargaining.

Niiiiiice.

And the union and fleebaggers already refused.

That's amazing. Maybe they will still be on vacation when the recall is done.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I think the Right is frankly stunned at the amount of nationwide support for unions/collective bargaining rights in this country...

...I think the Right got fooled by their own propagandists into believing that unions were overwhelmingly reviled by the American people.

I think it's more a matter that the Republicans (who are not right-wingers for the most part) thought that the Democrats were just going to roll over and play dead. They didn't believe that the Dems had the intestinal fortitude to actually pick up their ball and go home.

I can't say as I'd blame them if they thought that. Too many Democrats aren't fighters. People died for workers' rights in the history of this country. Living out of state for awhile is a relatively small sacrifice.

 

[DaGoose]

Rather than who caved and who won, I rather see that the ending result is something that reflects the needed changes that most agree need to be done and that the taxpayers are benefiting from the changes.

Are poor teachers going to be fired as they should be if they were in a private business?

Are teachers going to pay more toward their benefits as they should since the taxpayers are paying their salaries?

Are small class sizes going to be protected? Are equipment going to be available and repaired?

Will evaluations be fair and done by outside personnel, void of political pressure?

Are teachers going to be allowed to vote if they want to be part of a union?

Can union dues be paid without it being taken out of the checks automatically?

And, can taxpayers be sure the state legislature will continue to do their jobs without running to an adjoining state if they appear to be losing a vote?

Are poor teachers going to be fired as they should be if they were in a private business?

They always have. I dare you or anyone to show me any contract anywhere that says they can't.

Are teachers going to pay more toward their benefits as they should since the taxpayers are paying their salaries?

Yes. They will pay more out of their pockets from a salary that starts around $25,000 a year. (Great pay for a job that requires a dregree, eh?)

Are small class sizes going to be protected? Are equipment going to be available and repaired?

Probably not since the GOP in Wisconsin shows how little regard they have for education and those things cost lots of money. And if you think education costs lots of money you should try ignorance.

Will evaluations be fair and done by outside personnel, void of political pressure?

Suuuure it will. Uh-huh. Just trust them.

Are teachers going to be allowed to vote if they want to be part of a union?

Why vote? In Illinois it's an individual decision.

Can union dues be paid without it being taken out of the checks automatically?

Hopefully not but either way doesn't matter. The GOP has done more to strengthen Unions in the past month that the Dems ever did.

And, can taxpayers be sure the state legislature will continue to do their jobs without running to an adjoining state if they appear to be losing a vote?

Since the VAST MAJORITY of voters side with the Unions in this issue I would think that they would want and expect the Dems to do everything in their power to stop what Walker and the GOP is doing.

 

[Sheldon]

Are teachers going to pay more toward their benefits as they should since the taxpayers are paying their salaries?

tax.com: Really Bad Reporting in Wisconsin: Who 'Contributes' to Public Workers' Pensions?

Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin' s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.

How can that be? Because the "contributions" consist of money that employees chose to take as deferred wages – as pensions when they retire – rather than take immediately in cash. The same is true with the health care plan. If this were not so a serious crime would be taking place, the gift of public funds rather than payment for services.

...

The fact is that all of the money going into these plans belongs to the workers because it is part of the compensation of the state workers. The fact is that the state workers negotiate their total compensation, which they then divvy up between cash wages, paid vacations, health insurance and, yes, pensions. Since the Wisconsin government workers collectively bargained for their compensation, all of the compensation they have bargained for is part of their pay and thus only the workers contribute to the pension plan. This is an indisputable fact.​

 

[Synthaholic]

The left are getting all faux outraged again. I like Walker, just for that.

Yes, we know your philosophy: Party First, Country Second.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Wait, Gitmo is still open?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Unions... the last bastion of the mediocre.

 

[Jackson]

Are teachers going to pay more toward their benefits as they should since the taxpayers are paying their salaries?

tax.com: Really Bad Reporting in Wisconsin: Who 'Contributes' to Public Workers' Pensions?

Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin' s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.

How can that be? Because the "contributions" consist of money that employees chose to take as deferred wages – as pensions when they retire – rather than take immediately in cash. The same is true with the health care plan. If this were not so a serious crime would be taking place, the gift of public funds rather than payment for services.

...

The fact is that all of the money going into these plans belongs to the workers because it is part of the compensation of the state workers. The fact is that the state workers negotiate their total compensation, which they then divvy up between cash wages, paid vacations, health insurance and, yes, pensions. Since the Wisconsin government workers collectively bargained for their compensation, all of the compensation they have bargained for is part of their pay and thus only the workers contribute to the pension plan. This is an indisputable fact.​

So, what you are saying, is that they yearly pension is actually part of the compensation they were paid while working, just "deferred" for retirement, correct? That means, if the bewginning salary is $25,000, and the first year of retirement will be $60,000, the first year teacher is being compensated $85,000, only $60,000 is deferred is she stays long
enough for retirement. And say her thirtieth year her salary is $75,000 but she is actually compensated $140, 000 to give her one year of retirement later on. Wow.

That doesn't even include the paid vacations and health insurance.

 

[bodecea]

Unions... the last bastion of the mediocre.

That would explain why Reagan headed one.

 

[Jackson]

I was a teacher, and if I recall, I paid 6% of my salary into my reirement and the board matched it double with 12%. It was then put in the stock market and investments and that is how the money grew.

When I had to go on retirement/disability, I had a choice of a monthly income or a lump sum of $778,000.

It used to be that teachers could be paid for unused sick days and receive checks for a few thousand dollars on top of retirement. Some states may still have that.