Wake up to Domestic Surveillance

[flacaltenn]

The level of policy discussion about NSA and other surveillance programs is WOEFULLY lacking. But that is the case for most political discussions in this country today. Americans are NOT being served by the press or their elected representatives in that
the vast majority of Americans have no idea what the terms "bulk data collection", metadata, or "data mining" imply. I'm gonna give you a couple things to contemplate and HOPE that you then become invested in understanding and fixing this problem.

1) Data mining is the training of machines to recognize anomalous transactions between people or resources (when applied to monitoring terrorist activities). You cannot train a machine to recognize one anomalous transaction out of millions unless you've trained the machine to REJECT common normal transactions. To do that -- you NEED millions/billions of innocent transaction to "train on". Thus the need to do "bulk" collection. The folks (congresscritters, FISA judges) supposedly monitoring this activity probably have no real appreciation of this need. And to keep from the alarming the public euphemistically refer to metadata or anonymous data records. Anything with my phone number or bank information attached to it is NOT anonymous.

2) When we are reassured that only "foreign" inbound or outbound data is a target for collection, they are depending on the laziness and general stupidity of the American public. Since NSA is allowed to forced ISPs thru "court order" to gain access to colllections, this implies that surveillance taps are being allowed at many of the carrier sites and indeed may include a room or building that is staffed by govt (NSA) folk much like in the past when major US telcos were in bed with NSA for now revealed collection on foreign soil. IN FACT, the whole distinction of DOMESTIC collection is a canard. You could take all the ephemeral metadata the Google builds over the day and flash it over to a mirror site in the UK within a few hours every night. At that point, all of the data are no longer subject to FISA restrictions or "domestic" collection laws. And this is one of the revelations that Snowden and other Civil Libertarians have been trying to get folks to realize. In fact, when Google or Verizon are tapped, they can be "reimbursed" for access to their servers or physical installations on their premises.

3) I have no beef with NSA. They are a rare bastion of competence in a sea of govt bureaucracy. When their mission was to apply methods and practices to surveil our overseas threats, they could apply AWESOME measures. The American people do not want this extremely competent agency building massive new collection capabilities and analysis for domestic surveillance. Like that massive new building in Utah. That capability doesn't belong in political hands..

Support MEANINGFUL changes to the Patriot Act in Congress NOW. And THINK about what you are not being told and you are not hearing in public debate.

What is it you're doing when not here that you don't want the government to know about it?

Funny you should ask that.. Because as Moderator, I often have to cruise to VERY VERY questionable websites that I would never visit on my own. These include neo-nazi sites, Hezbollah controllled sites, sites relating to child abuse and porn and every manner of conspiracy and anarchy BullCrap..

I've acknowledged my experience with govt surveillance agencies in this thread. That's enough to catch me up on certain database search queries.

I don't mind that Google and Amazon know EVERYTHING about what buy on-line and target every ad on my USMB pages towards my previous i-net shopping history. But I DO mind having the government sketch a rather complete profile of my contacts, my finances, my organizational affiliations, and my political activity. I MIND that they know if I am an activist or a volunteer for certain orgs and causes.

Because Google can't limit my freedom by invading my privacy. They can't refer me to the IRS or the ATF and they don't have guns, and jails and drones with missiles..

But the GOVERNMENT can. And it has been INCREASINGLY caught doing just that. Referring folks applying for a simple tax form to other agencies for investigation and harassment.

I watch the pols on TV saying that they were fooled by the extra-legal interpretations of the Patriotic Act and that they will fix it so it can't be abused anymore. But it HAS been abused and violated. And only fools would trust them to fix it when they don't stand a chance of understanding how easy it is to get around their Lazy-Ass "oversight" and fixes..

 

[The Irish Ram]

The FBI has it's own fleet of spy planes being spotted over our cities now. This country is so screwed up. It's sad to watch.

 

[Christophera]

Hi FCT------still consider the caliphate an issue too
trivial to mention?

It's up there with THIS issue. Again, America is ill -informed to know who really understands the issue. I hear major media folks demanding that we take back Anbar tomorrow. But ya gotta ask WHO would we taking it back for? Same way they manipulate folks to look around this issue of Civil Liberties. Too much focus on WHO is speaking and not on what they might say to help you LEARN about the issue..

Having an enemy with an address is huge strategic advantage aint it? . So let the caliphate reign... I'm laser focused on saving THIS country at the moment.

I'm aware of many serious problems, domestic surveillance is certain one. However I decided long ago that obsessing on problems provided zero solution. Accordingly I've seriously examined potential solution to find that unity is really all that is needed.

Unity based in constitutional intent is hyper functional IF we realize that partisan politics is designed to go no where quicker.

Here is real strategy that gets completely out of the partisan box.

CDZ - A Lawful And Peaceful Revolution US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[RandallFlagg]

The level of policy discussion about NSA and other surveillance programs is WOEFULLY lacking. But that is the case for most political discussions in this country today. Americans are NOT being served by the press or their elected representatives in that
the vast majority of Americans have no idea what the terms "bulk data collection", metadata, or "data mining" imply. I'm gonna give you a couple things to contemplate and HOPE that you then become invested in understanding and fixing this problem.

1) Data mining is the training of machines to recognize anomalous transactions between people or resources (when applied to monitoring terrorist activities). You cannot train a machine to recognize one anomalous transaction out of millions unless you've trained the machine to REJECT common normal transactions. To do that -- you NEED millions/billions of innocent transaction to "train on". Thus the need to do "bulk" collection. The folks (congresscritters, FISA judges) supposedly monitoring this activity probably have no real appreciation of this need. And to keep from the alarming the public euphemistically refer to metadata or anonymous data records. Anything with my phone number or bank information attached to it is NOT anonymous.

2) When we are reassured that only "foreign" inbound or outbound data is a target for collection, they are depending on the laziness and general stupidity of the American public. Since NSA is allowed to forced ISPs thru "court order" to gain access to colllections, this implies that surveillance taps are being allowed at many of the carrier sites and indeed may include a room or building that is staffed by govt (NSA) folk much like in the past when major US telcos were in bed with NSA for now revealed collection on foreign soil. IN FACT, the whole distinction of DOMESTIC collection is a canard. You could take all the ephemeral metadata the Google builds over the day and flash it over to a mirror site in the UK within a few hours every night. At that point, all of the data are no longer subject to FISA restrictions or "domestic" collection laws. And this is one of the revelations that Snowden and other Civil Libertarians have been trying to get folks to realize. In fact, when Google or Verizon are tapped, they can be "reimbursed" for access to their servers or physical installations on their premises.

3) I have no beef with NSA. They are a rare bastion of competence in a sea of govt bureaucracy. When their mission was to apply methods and practices to surveil our overseas threats, they could apply AWESOME measures. The American people do not want this extremely competent agency building massive new collection capabilities and analysis for domestic surveillance. Like that massive new building in Utah. That capability doesn't belong in political hands..

Support MEANINGFUL changes to the Patriot Act in Congress NOW. And THINK about what you are not being told and you are not hearing in public debate.

Yeah, you're right.....screw the Constitution and the 4th Amendment. Who needs it?

 

[LibertarianPatriot]

Thomas Jefferson said those who will trade liberty for security deserve neither and will lose both. And Patrick Henry said GI'VE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH. It is sad to think that our founders would be considered terrorists in today's world, but I will always hold the same principles as them.