Wake Up People! The Government is not the answer to our problems!

[editec]

where did I ever say "no" government?

less does not equal none unless of course you subscribe to liberal math.

You said governmnet should "leave us alone", and "let you keep what you earn".

I simply pointed out that virtually everything in your life that you benefit from - from the internet you're currently posting on, to the food you eat, to the roads you drive on, to the electricty and water you have - are a direct result of the collective action of americans through our government and tax dollars.

Why don't you get off the electrical and water grid, stop posting on the internet, and stop driving on roads, and then report back to us how you like living with "government out of your life".?

so in your little mind, the government has no other way to raise money than an income tax?

The government operated without an income tax for years how did it do that?

Tarriffs, mostly.

 

[Red Dawn]

less "government" and more "people" is the solution. Specifically "people" left alone to keep what they earn and do with that money what they see fit.

By God, Skull, you are so right! We don't need no damn Gub'ment taking our hard earned. So let's shut down the most expensive dept first! What the hell do we need with those expensive fight planes and overpaid jet jockies? We all can handle them buggers with the ol' '06, right?

You want a third world nation, Skull? Then adapt a third world tax system.

Old rocks in in the head seems to be your problem.

you see the Constitution, remember that li'l ol' document that spells out the role and power of federal government, clearly states that the government can raise and keep a military.

not to say we can't save some money on defense because we clearly can. but what about all those other areas where the government has no constitutional authority?

surely we can get rid of those too to save some money

I am sure we could find redundant positions and offices in government and get rid of those.

But no we can't cut anything can we. My god that would just be stupid. Imagine spending less money so we can take less from the people.

IT"S JUST INCONCEIVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!

this appears to be backpeddling.

You said you wanted governmetn out of your life. I didn't know you were limiting that statement to federal government.

So, I take it your in favor of big STATE government? That is unless you grow your own food, stay off of public roads, tell garbage collectors to stay away from your house, and go to private schools.

The federal government is still involved in your life in a big way, from the food you eat, to the intenet you use, to the subsidizes that built and maintain your electric and water gird.


So, when are you going to get off the public grids, stay off of private roads, grow your own food, and forsake garbage collection services? Let us know how that works out for you.

 

[Skull Pilot]

where did I ever say "no" government?

less does not equal none unless of course you subscribe to liberal math.

You said governmnet should "leave us alone", and "let you keep what you earn".

I simply pointed out that virtually everything in your life that you benefit from - from the internet you're currently posting on, to the food you eat, to the roads you drive on, to the electricty and water you have - are a direct result of the collective action of americans through our government and tax dollars.

Why don't you get off the electrical and water grid, stop posting on the internet, and stop driving on roads, and then report back to us how you like living with "government out of your life".?

Spot on.

There's a lot of braggadoccio posted here on this commonweal electronic environment.

Childish macho blather, most of it.

If any of you really want to test your self-made man theories in the real world, Somalia doesn't have a government.

Feel free to go make your fortunes sans taxes and intrusive government there.

Bring all your guns and show those locals what tough indpendent guys you really are.

Go ahead, I dare yas.

Not a single self-proclaiming self made man on this board would last a fortnight in that Libertopia.

Not a one.

Now how do I know all this about you who claim to be such successful people in the real world?

Fairly simple...if you were all the powerful personalities you claim to be, you wouldn't be wasting your time trying to prove it to us.

arguing extremes is the tactic of big government types, but you conveniently ignore the extreme of ever growing ever more expensive government don't you.

Like 60 or 80% tax rates not just on the rich but on everyone. where the food you eat is determined by state and federal laws banning this or that, where the government controls your thermostat for you because you're too stupid to be trusted, where the government takes grandma's home made cookie out of your kid's lunch box because some kids are fat.

Look around,

In CA a bill to install radio controlled thermostats has been presented
Certain cooking ingredients are banned in cities all over the country
In MA kids lunch boxes are inspected for sweets

And you tell me we don't have enough government?

 

[Red Dawn]

You said governmnet should "leave us alone", and "let you keep what you earn".

I simply pointed out that virtually everything in your life that you benefit from - from the internet you're currently posting on, to the food you eat, to the roads you drive on, to the electricty and water you have - are a direct result of the collective action of americans through our government and tax dollars.

Why don't you get off the electrical and water grid, stop posting on the internet, and stop driving on roads, and then report back to us how you like living with "government out of your life".?

Spot on.

There's a lot of braggadoccio posted here on this commonweal electronic environment.

Childish macho blather, most of it.

If any of you really want to test your self-made man theories in the real world, Somalia doesn't have a government.

Feel free to go make your fortunes sans taxes and intrusive government there.

Bring all your guns and show those locals what tough indpendent guys you really are.

Go ahead, I dare yas.

Not a single self-proclaiming self made man on this board would last a fortnight in that Libertopia.

Not a one.

Now how do I know all this about you who claim to be such successful people in the real world?

Fairly simple...if you were all the powerful personalities you claim to be, you wouldn't be wasting your time trying to prove it to us.

arguing extremes is the tactic of big government types, but you conveniently ignore the extreme of ever growing ever more expensive government don't you.

Like 60 or 80% tax rates not just on the rich but on everyone. where the food you eat is determined by state and federal laws banning this or that, where the government controls your thermostat for you because you're too stupid to be trusted, where the government takes grandma's home made cookie out of your kid's lunch box because some kids are fat.

Look around,

In CA a bill to install radio controlled thermostats has been presented
Certain cooking ingredients are banned in cities all over the country
In MA kids lunch boxes are inspected for sweets

And you tell me we don't have enough government?

I want the federal government limited to enforcing civil rights, helping to proved a national safety welfare net, regulating interstate commerce, and funding research for science and building of public infrastructure.

I want state a local governments to provide local public services.


You explicity said you wanted government out of your life, but you continue to refuse to provide details of what that really means. It appears to be nothing more than a talking point sean hannity taught you to parrot.

When are you getting off the internet, gettng off the public electricity and water grids, and when are you going to stop driving on public roads, and when are you going to grow your own food and livestock?

 

[Skull Pilot]

By God, Skull, you are so right! We don't need no damn Gub'ment taking our hard earned. So let's shut down the most expensive dept first! What the hell do we need with those expensive fight planes and overpaid jet jockies? We all can handle them buggers with the ol' '06, right?

You want a third world nation, Skull? Then adapt a third world tax system.

Old rocks in in the head seems to be your problem.

you see the Constitution, remember that li'l ol' document that spells out the role and power of federal government, clearly states that the government can raise and keep a military.

not to say we can't save some money on defense because we clearly can. but what about all those other areas where the government has no constitutional authority?

surely we can get rid of those too to save some money

I am sure we could find redundant positions and offices in government and get rid of those.

But no we can't cut anything can we. My god that would just be stupid. Imagine spending less money so we can take less from the people.

IT"S JUST INCONCEIVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!

this appears to be backpeddling.

You said you wanted governmetn out of your life. I didn't know you were limiting that statement to federal government.

So, I take it your in favor of big STATE government? That is unless you grow your own food, stay off of public roads, tell garbage collectors to stay away from your house, and go to private schools.

The federal government is still involved in your life in a big way, from the food you eat, to the intenet you use, to the subsidizes that built and maintain your electric and water gird.


So, when are you going to get off the public grids, stay off of private roads, grow your own food, and forsake garbage collection services? Let us know how that works out for you.

I have a well for water a septic for waste and I pay for my own trash removal.

I pay excise and gas taxes that are supposed to be for roads and highways I pay taxes on my utility bills that is supposed to be used for repair of those systems so I use them.


And last time I checked the supermarket or farm stand where I but my food were not government owned and I pay sales tax on things I buy.

None of those taxes are taken from me before I even cash my paycheck are they? So as far as power grids, and roads, I pay my "fair share" you want to try again?

And BTW I am working on using less electricity. Imagine if we all did that we would all pay less taxes. then we could all watch the government raise our taxes somewhere else.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Old rocks in in the head seems to be your problem.

you see the Constitution, remember that li'l ol' document that spells out the role and power of federal government, clearly states that the government can raise and keep a military.

not to say we can't save some money on defense because we clearly can. but what about all those other areas where the government has no constitutional authority?

surely we can get rid of those too to save some money

I am sure we could find redundant positions and offices in government and get rid of those.

But no we can't cut anything can we. My god that would just be stupid. Imagine spending less money so we can take less from the people.

IT"S JUST INCONCEIVABLE!!!!!!!!!!!

this appears to be backpeddling.

You said you wanted governmetn out of your life. I didn't know you were limiting that statement to federal government.

So, I take it your in favor of big STATE government? That is unless you grow your own food, stay off of public roads, tell garbage collectors to stay away from your house, and go to private schools.

The federal government is still involved in your life in a big way, from the food you eat, to the intenet you use, to the subsidizes that built and maintain your electric and water gird.


So, when are you going to get off the public grids, stay off of private roads, grow your own food, and forsake garbage collection services? Let us know how that works out for you.

I have a well for water a septic for waste and I pay for my own trash removal.

I pay excise and gas taxes that are supposed to be for roads and highways I pay taxes on my utility bills that is supposed to be used for repair of those systems so I use them.


And last time I checked the supermarket or farm stand where I but my food were not government owned and I pay sales tax on things I buy.

None of those taxes are taken from me before I even cash my paycheck are they? So as far as power grids, and roads, I pay my "fair share" you want to try again?

And BTW I am working on using less electricity. Imagine if we all did that we would all pay less taxes. then we could all watch the government raise our taxes somewhere else.

And another thing you conveniently fail to mention in you more and bigger government argument is that even if I used town water and sewage that I would get a bill for those services wouldn't I?

The bills for water and sewage include a tax and are supposed to cover the costs of those systems, so why would the government need to tax me on top of charging me?

 

[Red Dawn]

this appears to be backpeddling.

You said you wanted governmetn out of your life. I didn't know you were limiting that statement to federal government.

So, I take it your in favor of big STATE government? That is unless you grow your own food, stay off of public roads, tell garbage collectors to stay away from your house, and go to private schools.

The federal government is still involved in your life in a big way, from the food you eat, to the intenet you use, to the subsidizes that built and maintain your electric and water gird.


So, when are you going to get off the public grids, stay off of private roads, grow your own food, and forsake garbage collection services? Let us know how that works out for you.

I have a well for water a septic for waste and I pay for my own trash removal.

I pay excise and gas taxes that are supposed to be for roads and highways I pay taxes on my utility bills that is supposed to be used for repair of those systems so I use them.


And last time I checked the supermarket or farm stand where I but my food were not government owned and I pay sales tax on things I buy.

None of those taxes are taken from me before I even cash my paycheck are they? So as far as power grids, and roads, I pay my "fair share" you want to try again?

And BTW I am working on using less electricity. Imagine if we all did that we would all pay less taxes. then we could all watch the government raise our taxes somewhere else.

And another thing you conveniently fail to mention in you more and bigger government argument is that even if I used town water and sewage that I would get a bill for those services wouldn't I?

The bills for water and sewage include a tax and are supposed to cover the costs of those systems, so why would the government need to tax me on top of charging me?

So you support paying taxes and fees to the government for public services.

You led me to believe you wanted government out of your life, and to leave you alone to take care of yourself.

So you were full of shit, and this is a waste of my time to go round and round with a sean hannity fan.

thanks for playing.

 

[DiamondDave]

Spot on.

There's a lot of braggadoccio posted here on this commonweal electronic environment.

Childish macho blather, most of it.

If any of you really want to test your self-made man theories in the real world, Somalia doesn't have a government.

Feel free to go make your fortunes sans taxes and intrusive government there.

Bring all your guns and show those locals what tough indpendent guys you really are.

Go ahead, I dare yas.

Not a single self-proclaiming self made man on this board would last a fortnight in that Libertopia.

Not a one.

Now how do I know all this about you who claim to be such successful people in the real world?

Fairly simple...if you were all the powerful personalities you claim to be, you wouldn't be wasting your time trying to prove it to us.

arguing extremes is the tactic of big government types, but you conveniently ignore the extreme of ever growing ever more expensive government don't you.

Like 60 or 80% tax rates not just on the rich but on everyone. where the food you eat is determined by state and federal laws banning this or that, where the government controls your thermostat for you because you're too stupid to be trusted, where the government takes grandma's home made cookie out of your kid's lunch box because some kids are fat.

Look around,

In CA a bill to install radio controlled thermostats has been presented
Certain cooking ingredients are banned in cities all over the country
In MA kids lunch boxes are inspected for sweets

And you tell me we don't have enough government?

I want the federal government limited to enforcing civil rights, helping to proved a national safety welfare net, regulating interstate commerce, and funding research for science and building of public infrastructure.

I want state a local governments to provide local public services.


You explicity said you wanted government out of your life, but you continue to refuse to provide details of what that really means. It appears to be nothing more than a talking point sean hannity taught you to parrot.

When are you getting off the internet, gettng off the public electricity and water grids, and when are you going to stop driving on public roads, and when are you going to grow your own food and livestock?

Providing local public services that are for all.... roads, public schools for minors, reserving park land... OK.. all well and good... law enforcement, legal systems, and upkeep of the buildings and personnel to run all that... fine

But when it comes to the government being there to take over the personal responsibility of individuals.. or the government trying to force it's way into private lives and private business, to dictate practice that is not against the law.. you can shove that up your leftist asses faster than Boy George with a new pet gerbil.. that is not what our government was set up to be, nor should it be a goal of people to make that a function of our government... our nation was set up on the basis of personal freedoms... and with those freedoms comes the right to succeed and the right to fail... whether that be an individual, a business, an industry, or whatever

No person, group of people, company, or industry is OWED welfare by anyone.. and ESPECIALLY not the government.... you succeed or fail on your own merits... now you can ASK for help, and many organizations are inclined to give it willingly.. great.. I support that whole-heartedly .... but nobody or no company is owed jack shit

 

[Skull Pilot]

I have a well for water a septic for waste and I pay for my own trash removal.

I pay excise and gas taxes that are supposed to be for roads and highways I pay taxes on my utility bills that is supposed to be used for repair of those systems so I use them.


And last time I checked the supermarket or farm stand where I but my food were not government owned and I pay sales tax on things I buy.

None of those taxes are taken from me before I even cash my paycheck are they? So as far as power grids, and roads, I pay my "fair share" you want to try again?

And BTW I am working on using less electricity. Imagine if we all did that we would all pay less taxes. then we could all watch the government raise our taxes somewhere else.

And another thing you conveniently fail to mention in you more and bigger government argument is that even if I used town water and sewage that I would get a bill for those services wouldn't I?

The bills for water and sewage include a tax and are supposed to cover the costs of those systems, so why would the government need to tax me on top of charging me?

So you support paying taxes and fees to the government for public services.

You led me to believe you wanted government out of your life, and to leave you alone to take care of yourself.

So you were full of shit, and this is a waste of my time to go round and round with a sean hannity fan.

thanks for playing.

I am saying I already pay for services I use. In your world I should want to pay more.

None of those pay for use services have anything to do with the government taking 30% of my income does it? My state only take 6% and most of the services I use are state not federally provided.

 

[Red Dawn]

And another thing you conveniently fail to mention in you more and bigger government argument is that even if I used town water and sewage that I would get a bill for those services wouldn't I?

The bills for water and sewage include a tax and are supposed to cover the costs of those systems, so why would the government need to tax me on top of charging me?

So you support paying taxes and fees to the government for public services.

You led me to believe you wanted government out of your life, and to leave you alone to take care of yourself.

So you were full of shit, and this is a waste of my time to go round and round with a sean hannity fan.

thanks for playing.

I am saying I already pay for services I use. In your world I should want to pay more.

You clearly implied you wanted government out of your life. Now you're backpedaling and admitting you have no problem paying taxes and fees for the large myriad of public services you use.

I'd say you painted yourself into a corner, and are trying to change your original argument.

 

[Bern80]

So what are YOU saying? That we should give ALL our money to the government? Or maybe you think America should be communist? Then the government would just give us everything we need. Is that your idea? Tell me when enough is enough...

I don't believe anyone on this thread said that. There has to be government or there will be anarchy. The real trick is how to balance enough with too much when there are so many different opinions on what the answer is.

We aren't anywhere near the extreme you are talking about.

I don't believe anyone in this thread said there should be no government or zero taxes either, yet many were eager to take that low road as well.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So you support paying taxes and fees to the government for public services.

You led me to believe you wanted government out of your life, and to leave you alone to take care of yourself.

So you were full of shit, and this is a waste of my time to go round and round with a sean hannity fan.

thanks for playing.

I am saying I already pay for services I use. In your world I should want to pay more.

You clearly implied you wanted government out of your life. Now you're backpedaling and admitting you have no problem paying taxes and fees for the large myriad of public services you use.

I'd say you painted yourself into a corner, and are trying to change your original argument.

Implied or you inferred?

getting rid of the income tax does not imply getting rid of all taxes does it?

 

[Munin]

Wake Up People! The Government is not the answer to our problems!

No, this is not true. The government can solve problems, just not all problems. The government can fuck up the economy (by regulating too much, deregulating too much) or fix it (by having the right regulations).


Right now a big part of the problem is this:
Ever wondered why China could possibly own so much US debt? Well then look why the US is importing so much, why the Chinese currency is so low. China is the factory of "the world". And the reason for it is the low Chinese currency, that allows the chinese to export a huge number of goods. But at some point the US can't pay for it no more, at that point the China began giving loans to the US and the US used that money to import more "cheap" products from China.

It is comparable with the car companies giving cheap loans so consumers can buy a car even though they don't have the money to buy one, the main reason for this is that they don't have to shut down the factory which would cost a huge amount of money. The reason this is done is because the car company thinks the car-demand will grow again and they will be able to bridge the time by giving loans to consumers so they can keep the factory running until demand is high enough.

The same thing happened with China, compare China to this car factory that needs to keep producing so it can continue this growth and have its people "happy". But in order to do this its currency needs to stay low, so the exports can be high and factories can stay open and even more factories can be opened. And China needs their big consumers to keep buying their goods, so what does China do? It buys debt of the US, so the US can keep the currency high. So at the same time China keeps its currency low it can also prevent the US dollar from becoming weaker by buying US debt. This works fine until some other event may cause the dollar to collapse (housing crisis), this crisis expanded into a bigger crisis (thx to the incompetence of the FED and the US government to prevent this) and this bigger crisis is the cause of the dollar "crashing down". And this makes that another bubble bursts: the one of Chines import, cheap chinese products and eternal growth of the Chinese export & industry thx to the manipulation from the Chinese government.

So the US government can do something to solve this problem, it can demand from china to let its currency go. (What this current government is doing btw, contrary to the bush government that got the results of their economic policy)


And the government can get the economic stability back, by spending money while the private sector stops spending. At this moment businesses do not create jobs (at least the vast majority does not), so the only one who can get private businesses back to work is the government and the money those businesses receive can be used to invest = buy something that will employ other businesses => and those other businesses will be able to invest again. And then the workers of those businesses will be able to rely on economic stability if their company gets work from the government and they will be secured of their job and will probably spend more money => this money spend can again put businesses to work ... And the circle is round again, but the only condition for this is that the government can provide enough businesses with a job and therefor the stimulus package needs to be big enough because if it isn't it will not have a big enough "snowball effect".

 

[Xenophon]

Whenever I read these threads, i have to wonder if many people actually understand what people mean when they want the feds to take their hands off money.

The United States was set up with a body for each state to handle roads, the electrical grid and other infrastructure problems, the state governments. they were intended to place taxes and provide servivces, NOT the feds.

Simply stated, the federal government makes things worse when it steps in, because it brings with it all the corruption and neoptism and old boyism that two centuries have grafted to it.

It's not about living in a lawless state like in Africa as someone mentioned, it's about a central government having TOO much authority and TOO LITTLE accountabilty.

The feds prove, no matter what party, they will spend, spend, and spend some more, come hell or high water.

So please stop trying to tell me the gov gave me this or that, it didn't, I paid for it, as did everyone else, and 99 out of 100 things they do i don't approve of.

 

[editec]

I reserve the judgement to finally decide whether or not the bail out makes sense when I see whether or not I get any money.

If I get money, then it's a good plan. The more money I get the gooder it is, too.

If I don't get any money? Then it's a bad plan.

Hey, the above attitude make me as good an American conservative as the next guy, folks.

 

[xsited1]

Wake Up People! The Government is not the answer to our problems!

But I want to sit on my butt and let the government pay for everything. How am I going to do that without big government???

 

[Skull Pilot]

I reserve the judgement to finally decide whether or not the bail out makes sense when I see whether or not I get any money.

If I get money, then it's a good plan. The more money I get the gooder it is, too.

If I don't get any money? Then it's a bad plan.

Hey, the above attitude make me as good an American conservative as the next guy, folks.

that's called enlightened self interest no?

I'll take whatever tax rebates the government gives me, hell I figure it's a refund of an overpayment.

I should send congress a bill for interest due.

 

[Munin]

Whenever I read these threads, i have to wonder if many people actually understand what people mean when they want the feds to take their hands off money.

The United States was set up with a body for each state to handle roads, the electrical grid and other infrastructure problems, the state governments. they were intended to place taxes and provide servivces, NOT the feds.

Simply stated, the federal government makes things worse when it steps in, because it brings with it all the corruption and neoptism and old boyism that two centuries have grafted to it.

It's not about living in a lawless state like in Africa as someone mentioned, it's about a central government having TOO much authority and TOO LITTLE accountabilty.

The feds prove, no matter what party, they will spend, spend, and spend some more, come hell or high water.

So please stop trying to tell me the gov gave me this or that, it didn't, I paid for it, as did everyone else, and 99 out of 100 things they do i don't approve of.

I agree that the government has too little accountabilty. But what I m saying is that it is too simplistic to just say that the government does everything wrong and the private sector does everything right. If that were the case then no company would ever go bankrupt (Lehman Brothers?), no company would ever be blamed with fraud.

If the government is able to influence the economy in a bad way, then it is also able to influence the economy in a good way. It is not because a previous government was incompetent to handle economic affairs that every other government also is incompetent to handle economic affairs. It is like saying that all businesses are incompetent because one business goes bankrupt.

Yeah you paid taxes, so does everyone else and we all get screwed by the government every now and then. That s why we re able to screw them when the next election comes (that is at least if you re living in a country were more then 1 party has a chance of getting elected).

 

[editec]

You said governmnet should "leave us alone", and "let you keep what you earn".

I simply pointed out that virtually everything in your life that you benefit from - from the internet you're currently posting on, to the food you eat, to the roads you drive on, to the electricty and water you have - are a direct result of the collective action of americans through our government and tax dollars.

Why don't you get off the electrical and water grid, stop posting on the internet, and stop driving on roads, and then report back to us how you like living with "government out of your life".?

Spot on.

There's a lot of braggadoccio posted here on this commonweal electronic environment.

Childish macho blather, most of it.

If any of you really want to test your self-made man theories in the real world, Somalia doesn't have a government.

Feel free to go make your fortunes sans taxes and intrusive government there.

Bring all your guns and show those locals what tough indpendent guys you really are.

Go ahead, I dare yas.

Not a single self-proclaiming self made man on this board would last a fortnight in that Libertopia.

Not a one.

Now how do I know all this about you who claim to be such successful people in the real world?

Fairly simple...if you were all the powerful personalities you claim to be, you wouldn't be wasting your time trying to prove it to us.

arguing extremes is the tactic of big government types, but you conveniently ignore the extreme of ever growing ever more expensive government don't you.

No I don't.

When I respond to the extremes of the Libertarian types I am merely suggesting that what they think they want won't work and that no government has another name...anarchy.

Like 60 or 80% tax rates not just on the rich but on everyone.

If you write in sentence fragments, it probably means that your thinking is as fragmented.

But I'll assume that you are accusing me of wanting 60 or 80% taxation.

No, lad, I don't. I want only as much government as we need and I want government which is not a handmaiden to the wealthy class.

If that offends you, you might want to ask yourself why.

where the food you eat is determined by state and federal laws banning this or that, where the government controls your thermostat for you because you're too stupid to be trusted, where the government takes grandma's home made cookie out of your kid's lunch box because some kids are fat.

Oh, go beat up your strawmen without including me, would you, jerkoff?

I get truly sick of dealing with fucking idiots like you are being right now.

Look around,

Okay, I'm looking...

In CA a bill to install radio controlled thermostats has been presented
Certain cooking ingredients are banned in cities all over the country
In MA kids lunch boxes are inspected for sweets

I don't support those things.

And you tell me we don't have enough government?

No, actually I didn't.

You insinuated those words into my mouth so that you could chasen me for things I neither want nor believe in.

Why do you do that?

Because laddie, you got nothing truly worthwhile to say.

Well, do you, punk?

Do you?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Spot on.

There's a lot of braggadoccio posted here on this commonweal electronic environment.

Childish macho blather, most of it.

If any of you really want to test your self-made man theories in the real world, Somalia doesn't have a government.

Feel free to go make your fortunes sans taxes and intrusive government there.

Bring all your guns and show those locals what tough indpendent guys you really are.

Go ahead, I dare yas.

Not a single self-proclaiming self made man on this board would last a fortnight in that Libertopia.

Not a one.

Now how do I know all this about you who claim to be such successful people in the real world?

Fairly simple...if you were all the powerful personalities you claim to be, you wouldn't be wasting your time trying to prove it to us.

No I don't.

When I respond to the extremes of the Libertarian types I am merely suggesting that what they think they want won't work and that no government has another name...anarchy.



If you write in sentence fragments, it probably means that your thinking is as fragmented.

But I'll assume that you are accusing me of wanting 60 or 80% taxation.

No, lad, I don't. I want only as much government as we need and I want government which is not a handmaiden to the wealthy class.

If that offends you, you might want to ask yourself why.




Oh, go beat up your strawmen without including me, would you, jerkoff?

I get truly sick of dealing with fucking idiots like you are being right now.



Okay, I'm looking...




I don't support those things.

And you tell me we don't have enough government?

No, actually I didn't.

You insinuated those words into my mouth so that you could chasen me for things I neither want nor believe in.

Why do you do that?

Because laddie, you got nothing truly worthwhile to say.

Well, do you, punk?

Do you?

well it seems my opinion is about as worthless as yours.