Vt. House passes single-payer health care bill

[Wiseacre]

2013? So after the next general election? Coincidence? You make the call.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Good for Vermont. This is exactly how it's supposed to be done. Let 50 states come up with their own ideas and we'll be able to see what works and what doesn't rather than having one federal bureaucracy that will be impossible to manage and provide shit services.

 

[Dr.House]

As was stated back then, what's good for VT is not necessarily what's good for the rest of the states....

 

[Wiseacre]

Good for Vermont. This is exactly how it's supposed to be done. Let 50 states come up with their own ideas and we'll be able to see what works and what doesn't rather than having one federal bureaucracy that will be impossible to manage and provide shit services.

Good point, if it works I'll shut the hell up and admit I was wrong. Won't be the first time.

 

[auditor0007]

what happens when the doctors decide to leave because they can't afford to live there?

If they think this through and do it right, they will find a way to help pay for a portion of doctor's educational costs, making the initial investment less to become a doctor in that state. Then there won't be a need to make as large of an income. You might actually see people going into the medical profession for more than just the money.

You would have to create a contract to prevent them from leaving to early after providing for thier education.

After that time, I'm not sure that even the most dedicated doctor will not think about moving after seeing someone with thier exact level of experience making X amount more than they are just across a state line.

Yes, they would need to sign some form of contract commiting them to practice in the state for a certain number of years, or they would have to pay back all the financial aid they received. As for them leaving, really hard to say. If they don't have to deal with a slew of red tape and paperwork, and if receiving payments become easier, some of their administrative costs might be reduced enough that they could still be happy with their earnings. Some people actually like doing their job with fewer headaches. Not sure where I read it, but I had read an article that discussed American doctors moving to Canada. Yes, the pay is less, but so are the headaches. Those who are moving to Canada to practice just want to practice medicine and not deal with all the BS that is involved when dealing with insurance companies. That's not to say we are seeing a mass exodus of doctors to Canada, but there are some who prefer than environment.

 

[sparky]

" 3. Directs the governor to come up with a funding plan by 2013. "


Oh yeah, this is gonna be good, what do you suppose current democratic governor Peter Shumlin in thinking right now? "How the fuck do you expect me to find all the money to pay for this shit?"

Ain't but one way to go with a single payer, gov't run system, and that's price controls. Healthcare providers will leave the state for greener pastures. There'll be some higher taxes, but it won't cover the deficits they're going to get. So, they'll have to decide the criteria for who gets what care. IOW, death panels by another name of course. Ain't going to be pretty.

Nobody runs around saying that about Medicare or VA hospitals Wiseacre

but ley's do the math:

current setup>

Patient------->Big Insurance*.........>Healthcare

single payer>

Patient--------->State Bureaucracy**........>Healhcare

the difference? well the former* middleman owns everything out to Neptune, including Congress, and basically doesn't give a rodent's rear end about the people, and perpetuates canards like death squads

the latter** owes everybody out to Neptune , which Congress may never figure out, yet is fundamentally set up by the people, for the people in a state of eternal gridlock


matter of perspective, eh?

 

[sparky]

Obama Denies Vermont Healthcare | War Is A Crime .org

Vermont issues a big fat 4Q to Obamacare>



Then came the Senate bill, also written at Obama's careful direction, which added in language forbidding state healthcare solutions through 2017. Obama told Kucinich that the Senate bill included the waivers he'd successfully put into the House bill and seen unceremoniously removed. But this was not true.

Nonetheless, Kucinich got on an airplane with Obama opposing the healthcare bill and wanting his amendment put back in it if it passed. Kucinich got off the airplane supporting the healthcare bill without his amendment restored or any other concession that has ever been mentioned in public.

And now comes Vermont trying to provide a civilized system of health coverage for one state. The other 49 states lose nothing by this. They could conceivably give their citizens vouchers for half what they now spend on healthcare and allow everyone to go buy into the Vermont plan. Tourism to Vermont would get a huge boost. But states that pretended nothing had happened could ignore Vermont and proceed on the same stairway to hell they are on now


been there, done that as well

Vermont gained every well heeled 2nd home owner gay couple looking for the first civil union in the country back when

Yankee capitalism folks...

it ain't just for breakfast......

 

[martybegan]

If they think this through and do it right, they will find a way to help pay for a portion of doctor's educational costs, making the initial investment less to become a doctor in that state. Then there won't be a need to make as large of an income. You might actually see people going into the medical profession for more than just the money.

You would have to create a contract to prevent them from leaving to early after providing for thier education.

After that time, I'm not sure that even the most dedicated doctor will not think about moving after seeing someone with thier exact level of experience making X amount more than they are just across a state line.

Yes, they would need to sign some form of contract commiting them to practice in the state for a certain number of years, or they would have to pay back all the financial aid they received. As for them leaving, really hard to say. If they don't have to deal with a slew of red tape and paperwork, and if receiving payments become easier, some of their administrative costs might be reduced enough that they could still be happy with their earnings. Some people actually like doing their job with fewer headaches. Not sure where I read it, but I had read an article that discussed American doctors moving to Canada. Yes, the pay is less, but so are the headaches. Those who are moving to Canada to practice just want to practice medicine and not deal with all the BS that is involved when dealing with insurance companies. That's not to say we are seeing a mass exodus of doctors to Canada, but there are some who prefer than environment.

Since when has any government created buracracy EVER been able to reduce red tape and paperwork? Their only hope would be to START the system paperless on a type of IPAD network.

As for the doctors moving to canada are they joining the state system, or going up there to provide private medicine?

 

[editec]

Since when has any government created buracracy EVER been able to reduce red tape and paperwork?

Since Medicade and Medicare.

Those systems are about 12 times more administratively efficient that private HC insurers.

Look it up if you doubt it.

 

[martybegan]

Since when has any government created buracracy EVER been able to reduce red tape and paperwork?

Since Medicade and Medicare.

Those systems are about 12 times more administratively efficient that private HC insurers.

Look it up if you doubt it.

Found this article countering the administrative efficency thing. Its a trade mag, but that doesnt make it false.

2006_02 | News: Medicare's Efficiency Over-Hyped, Study Claims

Measuring something like "efficency" is always a pain in the neck. I get my view from experience in the construction industry, where if you build something for a private company the amount of paperwork is about a fifth the amount as for when you build for the government.

 

[editec]

"Medicare's Hidden Administrative Costs: A Comparison of Medicare and the Private Sector," funded by the Council for Affordable Health Insurance, an advocacy group for many of the insurance companies often held up in comparison.

The claim was made that the government is incapable of providing anything efficiently.

AT BEST, the above points out what might be flaws in the way efficacy of those programs is measured?


What is does not do, however, is really give us numbers (administrative costs in comparison to HC paid out) to compare.

Why not?

Because, one suspects, even if the objections that the ADVOCACY GROUP FUNDED BY THE PRIVATE INSURERS were taken into account, Medicade and Medicare would still be hands down multiple times MORE EFFICIENT that private HC insurers.

The bold faced right wing poppycok that government is always inefficient in comparison to private companies is disproven time and time again.

But still the lie is advanced by the clueless and/or the specious whenever this kind of issue comes to the floor.

Pretty much everything you sincere conservatives think you know as apodictic truth is either an outright fucking lie, or a very cleaver distortion of the truth by techniques like half lies, overlooked facts or inuendo just LIKE tHAT we can read above.

Smell the propaganda, lads?

Your country needs you to wake up, now.

 

[martybegan]

"Medicare's Hidden Administrative Costs: A Comparison of Medicare and the Private Sector," funded by the Council for Affordable Health Insurance, an advocacy group for many of the insurance companies often held up in comparison.

The claim was made that the government is incapable of providing anything efficiently.

AT BEST, the above points out what might be flaws in the way efficacy of those programs is measured?


What is does not do, however, is really give us numbers (administrative costs in comparison to HC paid out) to compare.

Why not?

Because, one suspects, even if the objections that the ADVOCACY GROUP FUNDED BY THE PRIVATE INSURERS were taken into account, Medicade and Medicare would still be hands down multiple times MORE EFFICIENT that private HC insurers.

The bold faced right wing poppycok that government is always inefficient in comparison to private companies is disproven time and time again.

But still the lie is advanced by the clueless and/or the specious whenever this kind of issue comes to the floor.

Pretty much everything you sincere conservatives think you know as apodictic truth is either an outright fucking lie, or a very cleaver distortion of the truth by techniques like half lies, overlooked facts or inuendo just LIKE tHAT we can read above.

Smell the propaganda, lads?

Your country needs you to wake up, now.

As with all generalizations, of course there are exceptions. However instead of questioning the information provided, you question the source. Just because they dont agree with you, and have a vested interest in proving your point wrong does not make them automatically wrong.

As for government inefficency, lets look at getting a Change Order during construction. If we are building, say a sports stadium done with private money, the contractor identifies the change, they negotiate with the Construction Manager, and then off they go. This takes at most a few weeks. The same thing in a government you have to initiate the CO, have audits review for scope, then negotiate, then have audits review for cost, then have the agency sign off, then have the next level sign off, then the comptroller sign off, then the mayor's office sign off. (this is for NYC). Average time? 8 months to a year.

 

[sparky]

Big insurance has a vested intrest far more shill than the average Joe Marty

for instance, our spanking new historic Obamacare bill rode in on an average of 6 HC lobbyists per Congresscritter

~6~

of course, we're talking all the lucrative acolades that go with that, but didn't make those Congresscritter votes automatically wrong....

 

[Oscar Wao]

Don't need to lose my house...I'll just rent a cheap apartment in Vermont and go mooch.

So when you can't afford your own, you'll become the welfare child of Vermont. That is more what I would expect from someone like you who claims to be so self reliant.

I think he was trying to be sarcastic...

 

[sparky]

Obamacare doles out HC to illegal aliens, a controverstial point, but moot in the sense that any state opting out needs to meet of exceed the fed standard>
Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

on Obamacae medical inflation>
Health Insurance Expenses Skyrocket under ObamaCare

any comment on the disproportionate costs of it all?

U.S. Medical Prices Highest In the World - BusinessWeek