Voters Say They Know Health Care Bill Better Than Congress

[MaggieMae]

I think this proves that people are susceptible to rhetoric. How do people know a bill better than the people who wrote it?

But congress didn't write the proposed bill. They haven't even read it. The Tide Center/Apollo Alliance is the author of the health care bill. This is exactly why Congress and, the President does not know whats in the health care bill

Ah yes, and then we have ol' Lone Star regurgitating his fucking nonsense from far-right blogsites as if it were gospel truth.

I suppose since you assholes are all smug now that you *think* you've got the upper hand over this health care issue, that you can just toss shit against the wall every day and hope whatever you say will stick and add to your "victory." Sorry, pal, but intelligent analysis will beat out your ignorant ASSumptions in the end.

 

[toomuchtime_]

link to Spector saying that? It's their jobs to read the bill - and there's no reason to assume that they have not read it. The controversy around this bill is reason to assume that everyone has read it. Unless you can provide some evidence that they have not read it, its safe to assume that they have, even though that might conflict with your rhetoric on how useless the congress is.

What you are saying is that you want to believe members of Congress read the bill, but you have no reason to believe they have. Again, the size and volume of bills coming before Congress makes it impossible for them to read much more than parts of a few bills and means they have to rely on staff members and others to tell them what the bill says and what the implications of it are.

As for Spector,

Over and over, members of the audience asked questions and became agitated over aspects of the House bill, some of them brandishing copies and reading directly from it. One questioner pointed to a part which read the government would have access to the bank accounts of those electing the public option.

Specter seemed surprised by that.
“Read the bill!” the audience shouted.
“I repeat, this is not the Senate bill,” he said.
Specter later told reporters he did not read the 1,000-page House bill and wasn’t interested in doing so because it isn’t what he will be voting on.
But he told the crowd: “Government should not have access to the bank accounts of people electing the public option.”

Senator tells Valley crowd he hasn’t read House bill - The Tree Of Liberty

What you are saying is that you want to believe members of Congress have not read the bill, but you have no reason to believe they have not. As for Specter, he's not a member of the house - why should he read the house bill? He'll read the Senate version, just like he said.

No, I'm saying that it is not reasonable to think that members of Congress have the time to read all of the bills that come before Congress. They obviously have to rely on staff members to read the bills and explain them to the Congressperson and on those same staff members and others to explain the implications of these bills. Voters may not have staffs to read the bills for them and to explain the bills to them, but they do have access by way of the internet and cable tv to a vast array on information and a great variety of perspectives on issues, so it is not unreasonable for voters to think they have a greater understanding of a bill than a Congressperson who relies on a few political appointees to do for them what the world's media does for voters. From the media we get explanations and criticisms from a great variety of perspectives, but from members of Congress, with rare exceptions, we get talking points; why would anyone rely a member of Congress who doesn't seem to be able to think beyond the talking points Nancy Pelosi gave him/her?

Why should Specter read the House bill? Because many of his constituents expect him to.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

What you are saying is that you want to believe members of Congress read the bill, but you have no reason to believe they have. Again, the size and volume of bills coming before Congress makes it impossible for them to read much more than parts of a few bills and means they have to rely on staff members and others to tell them what the bill says and what the implications of it are.

As for Spector,



Senator tells Valley crowd he hasn’t read House bill - The Tree Of Liberty

What you are saying is that you want to believe members of Congress have not read the bill, but you have no reason to believe they have not. As for Specter, he's not a member of the house - why should he read the house bill? He'll read the Senate version, just like he said.

No, I'm saying that it is not reasonable to think that members of Congress have the time to read all of the bills that come before Congress. They obviously have to rely on staff members to read the bills and explain them to the Congressperson and on those same staff members and others to explain the implications of these bills. Voters may not have staffs to read the bills for them and to explain the bills to them, but they do have access by way of the internet and cable tv to a vast array on information and a great variety of perspectives on issues, so it is not unreasonable for voters to think they have a greater understanding of a bill than a Congressperson who relies on a few political appointees to do for them what the world's media does for voters.

I don't think it's unreasonable for people to think they have a better perspective, but I do think it's unreasonable for you to think they do.

From the media we get explanations and criticisms from a great variety of perspectives, but from members of Congress, with rare exceptions, we get talking points; why would anyone rely a member of Congress who doesn't seem to be able to think beyond the talking points Nancy Pelosi gave him/her?

Are you really claiming that we hear something other than talking points from the media? On both sides, the definition of "talking points" is what we hear from the media. Give me one example of a member of the media who isn't towing his demographic line - Is there any "Conservative" media talking head who isn't repeating the right wing talking points? Is there any "Liberal" media talking head who isn't repeating the left wing talking points?

Why should Specter read the House bill? Because many of his constituents expect him to.

His constituents expect him to because they don't understand his job. That's not his problem. His job is to read and vote on the Senate version.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I think this proves that people are susceptible to rhetoric. How do people know a bill better than the people who wrote it?

But congress didn't write the proposed bill. They haven't even read it. The Tide Center/Apollo Alliance is the author of the health care bill. This is exactly why Congress and, the President does not know whats in the health care bill

Anything to back that up? Or did you just hear it on the radio, and accept it as truth?

The radio? Is that where you get your news from?

I'll make it easy for you, I'll provide a link that uses pictures.

Communist Linked, Tides Foundation Funded, Apollo Alliance Helped Write Obama’s Stimulus - The Liberty Journal

Linking Social Justice to 'Green' Jobs - Glenn Beck - FOXNews.com

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I think this proves that people are susceptible to rhetoric. How do people know a bill better than the people who wrote it?

But congress didn't write the proposed bill. They haven't even read it. The Tide Center/Apollo Alliance is the author of the health care bill. This is exactly why Congress and, the President does not know whats in the health care bill

Ah yes, and then we have ol' Lone Star regurgitating his fucking nonsense from far-right blogsites as if it were gospel truth.

I suppose since you assholes are all smug now that you *think* you've got the upper hand over this health care issue, that you can just toss shit against the wall every day and hope whatever you say will stick and add to your "victory." Sorry, pal, but intelligent analysis will beat out your ignorant ASSumptions in the end.

Nonsense? I suppose you have evidence to support your claim. Or do you think by just saying it's nonsense would make you automatically right?

 

[MaggieMae]

But congress didn't write the proposed bill. They haven't even read it. The Tide Center/Apollo Alliance is the author of the health care bill. This is exactly why Congress and, the President does not know whats in the health care bill

Anything to back that up? Or did you just hear it on the radio, and accept it as truth?

The radio? Is that where you get your news from?

I'll make it easy for you, I'll provide a link that uses pictures.

Communist Linked, Tides Foundation Funded, Apollo Alliance Helped Write Obama’s Stimulus - The Liberty Journal

Linking Social Justice to 'Green' Jobs - Glenn Beck - FOXNews.com

Someday, Lone, you'll maybe (hopefully?) learn the difference between partisan Internet "journals" and blogsites.

 

[veritas]

What does the stimulus bill [or the part dealing with energy] have to do with Specter reading the House [not yet a bill] on healthcare?


Do you people ever stand still and examine a subject forthrightly?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

But congress didn't write the proposed bill. They haven't even read it. The Tide Center/Apollo Alliance is the author of the health care bill. This is exactly why Congress and, the President does not know whats in the health care bill

Anything to back that up? Or did you just hear it on the radio, and accept it as truth?

The radio? Is that where you get your news from?

I'll make it easy for you, I'll provide a link that uses pictures.

Communist Linked, Tides Foundation Funded, Apollo Alliance Helped Write Obama’s Stimulus - The Liberty Journal

Linking Social Justice to 'Green' Jobs - Glenn Beck - FOXNews.com

Um. Well, I'll start by pointing out your reading comprehension issues - both of these partisan hack sites that you linked say nothing at all about the Healthcare bill - they're both supposedly linking the Apollo Alliance with the stimulus package. Care to try again?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Most voters think they understand the health care reform legislation proposed by President Obama better than Congress does - and about as well as the president himself.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 51% of voters rate their understanding of the health care plan as good or excellent. Only 21% say their understanding of it is poor.

By contrast, just 22% say Congress has a good or excellent understanding of the plan. Thirty-five percent (35%) say Congress’ knowledge of the proposal is poor.

Voters give the president more credit than that. Forty-seven percent (47%) say Obama’s understanding of his own plan is good or excellent, while 27% rate his knowledge of it as poor.

Voters are divided on the president’s accusation that critics of the plan are “bearing false witness” against it. Thirty-six percent (36%) agree with the president, but 38% do not. Most Democrats agree, and most Republicans don't. Unaffiliateds, by a 46% to 33% margin, disagree with Obama on this point.

Voters Say They Know Health Care Bill Better Than Congress - Rasmussen Reports™

Of course Rasmussen says this.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

url=http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/august_2009/voters_say_they_know_health_care_bill_better_than_congress]Voters Say They Know Health Care Bill Better Than Congress - Rasmussen Reports™[/url]

Voters DO know better whats in the bill than do the Legislators... that's an established FACT...

Only a FOOl would even TRY to argue otherwise....

 

[veritas]

I'd argue otherwise based on what the anti-information crowd posts on this board.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

What you are saying is that you want to believe members of Congress have not read the bill, but you have no reason to believe they have not. As for Specter, he's not a member of the house - why should he read the house bill? He'll read the Senate version, just like he said.

The Pragmatic Conservative » Conyers: What’s the Point of Reading the Bill?

“What good is reading the bill if it’s a thousand pages and you don’t have two days and two lawyers to find out what it means after you read the bill?”

 

[theDoctorisIn]

url=http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/august_2009/voters_say_they_know_health_care_bill_better_than_congress]Voters Say They Know Health Care Bill Better Than Congress - Rasmussen Reports™[/url]

Voters DO know better whats in the bill than do the Legislators... that's an established FACT...

Only a FOOl would even TRY to argue otherwise....

Only a "FOOl" would trust what you say as "established fact".

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

url=http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/august_2009/voters_say_they_know_health_care_bill_better_than_congress]Voters Say They Know Health Care Bill Better Than Congress - Rasmussen Reports™[/url]

Voters DO know better whats in the bill than do the Legislators... that's an established FACT...

Only a FOOl would even TRY to argue otherwise....

Only a "FOOl" would trust what you say as "established fact".

Oh I hear ya... and that the Legislators have had their collective asses handed to them at the town halls... that they have not quoted those who have, as you would represent it, corrected the angry constituents, by showing them what IS in the bill... that they haven't said: "You're wrong, HERE IS THE BILL: HERE IS WHAT IT SAYS; xxxx,xxxx,xxxx"

Now IF the legislators knew what was in the bill... reason says that they would take that monstrosity into the meeting, with the specific articles or elements tabbed for easy reference and they would be PREPARED to REFERENCE those articles or elements which they KNOW ARE ARE BEING MISREPRESENTED AT LARGE and which their constiuents are sure to be questioning. But they do not... NOT ONE... NOT AT ANY TIME... not anywhere.

And this INCONTESTABLE FACT, on TOP of the statement by Congressman Conyers, who flat out admitted that he sees no reason why he should read the bill; DESPITE THE EMPHATIC ASSERTIONS that 'no congressmen would vote on a bill they haven't read...'

Of course if you can show where such is incorrect... I'm open to hearing your argument.

It's just that such hasn't happened and that is going to be tough to show. But hey... BEST OF LUCK.

 

[VaYank5150]

Voters DO know better whats in the bill than do the Legislators... that's an established FACT...

Only a FOOl would even TRY to argue otherwise....

Who or what established this FACT? Do you even know what a fact is?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Most voters think they understand the health care reform legislation proposed by President Obama better than Congress does - and about as well as the president himself.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 51% of voters rate their understanding of the health care plan as good or excellent. Only 21% say their understanding of it is poor.

By contrast, just 22% say Congress has a good or excellent understanding of the plan. Thirty-five percent (35%) say Congress’ knowledge of the proposal is poor.

Voters give the president more credit than that. Forty-seven percent (47%) say Obama’s understanding of his own plan is good or excellent, while 27% rate his knowledge of it as poor.

Voters are divided on the president’s accusation that critics of the plan are “bearing false witness” against it. Thirty-six percent (36%) agree with the president, but 38% do not. Most Democrats agree, and most Republicans don't. Unaffiliateds, by a 46% to 33% margin, disagree with Obama on this point.

Voters Say They Know Health Care Bill Better Than Congress - Rasmussen Reports™

Those of us who have actually dug into and read a lot of it definately know it better than our congresspeople, some of whom have publicly stated they wont read it.

 

[VaYank5150]

Those of us who have actually dug into and read a lot of it definately know it better than our congresspeople, some of whom have publicly stated they wont read it.

Now THIS statement, I can agree with.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Those of us who have actually dug into and read a lot of it definately know it better than our congresspeople, some of whom have publicly stated they wont read it.

Now THIS statement, I can agree with.

here is an example .

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACbwND52rrw]YouTube - John Conyers on Reading the Healthcare Bill[/ame]

 

[007]

I think this proves that people are susceptible to rhetoric. How do people know a bill better than the people who wrote it?

Why do liberal senators and congressmen vote a bill in that they don't read? Do they understand it without reading it?

People are going online and reading this health care cluster fuck, and they're not liking what they're reading. Thank God for that... at least SOMEBODY is reading what's being tried to be shoved down our throats by the socialist liberals.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Anything to back that up? Or did you just hear it on the radio, and accept it as truth?

The radio? Is that where you get your news from?

I'll make it easy for you, I'll provide a link that uses pictures.

Communist Linked, Tides Foundation Funded, Apollo Alliance Helped Write Obama’s Stimulus - The Liberty Journal

Linking Social Justice to 'Green' Jobs - Glenn Beck - FOXNews.com

Someday, Lone, you'll maybe (hopefully?) learn the difference between partisan Internet "journals" and blogsites.

Why don't you debunk the facts these sites present?