Vote Fraud Allegations Gathers Steam

[Zhukov]

No, 3rd parties only have an unbalancing effect on our electoral process, largely due to our election system.

Yes I know, hence the pejorative adjectival use of the word 'wacky'.

I'm not a "third party person" - but I do think that the two parties in power have become too polarized, and what we need is more centrist candidates to choose from.

I think the nature of the electorate require our polar opposite parties to field centrist candidates, and that when they fail to do so, they lose.

 

[CivilLiberty]

I think the nature of the electorate require our polar opposite parties to field centrist candidates, and that when they fail to do so, they lose.

Well, at least one of them loses...






Andy

 

[CivilLiberty]

I think you're seeing sinister dealings where none exist, and failing to see them where they do. ...SNIP....Look at the behavior of Democrats all during the campaign - the break-ins, the assaults, the phony registration schemes that they actually DID get busted on ...SNIP...In short, sir, this election was typical in that Democrats engaged in every underhanded trick in the book, as is their habit. They started with a $2 billion advantage - the monetary value of the favorable coverage a liberal candidate gets from the mainstream media by virtue of the fact that he draws air. They played all their trump cards - the courts, race-baiting, fearmongering, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum. The American people weren't having it this time. Bush won. Get over it.

Since you have not read *all* of my articles over the last few months, you wouldn't know that I've also noted the issues where Dems were doing naughty things. But keep in mind that there was plenty of malfeasance coming from Republicans - shredding democratic voter registrations in Nevada and Oregon come to mind.

Both sides have their cadre of "underhanded tricks". And as far as this mythical "$2 billion" advantage you claim the dems have, apparently you have not noticed Faux News. Repubs have been active in the courts, along with race baiting and fear-mongering ad nauseam (as you put it) as well.

And yes, 3% more American people were supportive of the Republicans ad nauseam campaign than the dems. get over it.


Regards,


Andy

 

[Zhukov]

Well, at least one of them loses...

Yes. The least centrist.

 

[musicman]

Since you have not read *all* of my articles over the last few months, you wouldn't know that I've also noted the issues where Dems were doing naughty things. But keep in mind that there was plenty of malfeasance coming from Republicans - shredding democratic voter registrations in Nevada and Oregon come to mind.

Both sides have their cadre of "underhanded tricks". And as far as this mythical "$2 billion" advantage you claim the dems have, apparently you have not noticed Faux News. Repubs have been active in the courts, along with race baiting and fear-mongering ad nauseam (as you put it) as well.

And yes, 3% more American people were supportive of the Republicans ad nauseam campaign than the dems. get over it.

I AM over it, Jack - Bush won!

You're not seriously inferring that Republican "naughtiness" even holds a candle to what has become the traditional Democrat campaign, are you?

Fox News provides both sides of an issue. Of course, this would SEEM biased to anyone who consumes, unquestioningly, the fare dished up by the Old Media. Those days are rapidly coming to a close, thank God. Dan Rather ain't the only game in town anymore .

 

[CivilLiberty]

Fox News provides both sides of an issue.

No they don't.

Faux News is the most far-right slanted media outlet available today, with the possible exception of IBD and the Wash.Times.

Roger Ailes makes Joseph Geobells look like an amateur.

Next I suppose you're going to tell me that Nixon wasn't corrupt, or that Iraq really does have WMDs.

I am generally shocked and stunned when I hear people like you parroting the neocon tripe spewing from Faux News. Then I realize how an inept, illiterate, incompetent moron like Bush can get elected. TWICE!



Kindest Regards,


Andy

 

[CivilLiberty]

Yes. The least centrist.

Or the best at propaganda....

Face it - Bush's campaign was brilliant - brilliantly planned and brilliantly executed. Kerry's campaign was limp at best. However, neither man really deserves to be running our nation.




A

 

[jimnyc]

I am generally shocked and stunned when I hear people like you parroting the neocon tripe spewing from Faux News. Then I realize how an inept, illiterate, incompetent moron like Bush can get elected. TWICE!

It appears maybe Mr. P wasn't so far off after all!

Are you telling me that if I watch Fox or visit their website I won't find any negative news about conservatives or republicans?

I'll bet any amount of money you can possibly scrape up that the 'inept, illiterate, incompetent moron' would run circles around you in any debate of your choice. I'm willing to bet anything you have that his IQ is also higher. How about sharing your resume? What have you done to be able to judge someone so harshly?

Typical liberal rubbish from another foaming at the mouth rabid dog.

 

[Zhukov]

Faux News is the most far-right slanted media outlet available today

Considering the competition, is that really saying much? If it weren't for Fox any pure objective news could accurately be described as the "most far-right slanted media outlet available today".

Then I realize how an inept, illiterate, incompetent moron like Bush can get elected.

Do you have any proof he can't read?

 

[musicman]

No they don't.

Faux News is the most far-right slanted media outlet available today, with the possible exception of IBD and the Wash.Times.

Roger Ailes makes Joseph Geobells look like an amateur.

Next I suppose you're going to tell me that Nixon wasn't corrupt, or that Iraq really does have WMDs.

I am generally shocked and stunned when I hear people like you parroting the neocon tripe spewing from Faux News. Then I realize how an inept, illiterate, incompetent moron like Bush can get elected. TWICE!



Kindest Regards,


Andy

There it is - the arrogance - the beating heart of liberalism! Bush won because Americans are stupid. Blow it out your ass, loser!

Actually, your boy, Cronkite, unwittingly supplied a fairly plausible explanation for the missing WMDs. What - is he stupid, too?

 

[Zhukov]

Face it - Bush's campaign was brilliant - brilliantly planned and brilliantly executed.

I think they could have done a better job. But, obviously it was adequate.

Kerry's campaign was limp at best.

Kerry's performance was certainly limp. The campaign however was quite aggressive.

However, neither man really deserves to be running our nation.

Deserves? Anyone who manages to get the majority of electoral votes by definition deserves to run the nation, at least in the capacity of Chief Executive. Perhaps you meant neither is competent enough to successfully perform the duties required of that office? Of course, the relevance of your opinion on such things extends only as far as the voting booth.

 

[CivilLiberty]

Are you telling me that if I watch Fox or visit their website I won't find any negative news about conservatives or republicans?

Did I say that? No, I did not - but their gestalt is to "spin" conservative and liberal issues - and certainly their "opinion" based shows are far, far right.

I'll bet any amount of money you can possibly scrape up that the 'inept, illiterate, incompetent moron' would run circles around you in any debate of your choice. I'm willing to bet anything you have that his IQ is also higher. How about sharing your resume? What have you done to be able to judge someone so harshly?

I'd love to debate Bush, even if he is wearing a wire feeding him lines from Karl Rove - heh. (no, I don't believe that conspiracy theory, I believe it was a bullet proof vest he was wearing... nevertheless...).

I doubt he'd run circles around me. I'm a former broadcast journalist, professional speaker, writer, and 3 time Emmy award winning editor. As far as IQ, I'm well above the upper 1 percentile and a former Mensa member - not that that matters as I view most IQ tests as overly simplistic attempts to measure a narrowly defined set of cognitive functions, while disregarding the importance of creative intelligence. If you'd care to see some of my resume, you can visit my personal page at:

(links removed by moderator)

And of course, read some of my articles at


Click on my profile for links to my resume, personal home page, and regular column, as links were removed from this post by the moderator.


As far as "what have I done" to judge - I was born and raised an American, with a free thinking mind that is not afraid to question and challenge the political status quo, and any good American should.

Thanks for asking.



Regards,


Andy

 

[CivilLiberty]

Considering the competition, is that really saying much? If it weren't for Fox any pure objective news could accurately be described as the "most far-right slanted media outlet available today".

Do you consider the Wall Street Journal far right, objective or left?

Do you have any proof he can't read?

He said he didn't read (news), though he did seem to be able to read "my pet goat". har de har...

Maybe I misunderestimated his illiteracy! heheh




A

 

[jimnyc]

Did I say that? No, I did not - but their gestalt is to "spin" conservative and liberal issues - and certainly their "opinion" based shows are far, far right.

I was commenting on Fox 'News', not their commentary pieces. They still report the news and I believe it to be more accurate than the leading stations. I don't find them to be dishonest like the others.

I'd love to debate Bush, even if he is wearing a wire feeding him lines from Karl Rove - heh. (no, I don't believe that conspiracy theory, I believe it was a bullet proof vest he was wearing... nevertheless...).

I doubt he'd run circles around me. I'm a former broadcast journalist, professional speaker, writer, and 3 time Emmy award winning editor. As far as IQ, I'm well above the upper 1 percentile and a former Mensa member - not that that matters as I view most IQ tests as overly simplistic attempts to measure a narrowly defined set of cognitive functions, while disregarding the importance of creative intelligence. If you'd care to see some of my resume, you can visit my personal page at:

Impressive resume and congrats on the awards!

Nonetheless, this isn't exactly Bush territory nor does it make one capable of running a country. This doesn't make Bush illiterate, when he has a very high IQ and graduated from Yale. I don't think people who are incompetent become Governors and Presidents of the free world. I think the moron titles should be left to those who try to demean our president. Disagreement I can see, but calling him names without merit is just retarded.

 

[CivilLiberty]

There it is - the arrogance - the beating heart of liberalism! Bush won because Americans are stupid. Blow it out your ass, loser!

My, what a clever retort! How could I ever have doubted your stunning brilliance?

Actually, your boy, Cronkite, unwittingly supplied a fairly plausible explanation for the missing WMDs. What - is he stupid, too?

Cronkite's not "my boy" I am Libertarian, he is not.


Of course, if I had to choose between him and Brit hume....


A

 

[CivilLiberty]

I think they could have done a better job. But, obviously it was adequate.Kerry's performance was certainly limp. The campaign however was quite aggressive.

Perhaps - you are in Ohio, no? I'm sure you got the brunt of campaigning - we saw almost none in here in California.

Deserves? Anyone who manages to get the majority of electoral votes by definition deserves to run the nation, at least in the capacity of Chief Executive. Perhaps you meant neither is competent enough to successfully perform the duties required of that office? Of course, the relevance of your opinion on such things extends only as far as the voting booth.

It extends as far as the voting booth, and my right to state them publicly in articles or what have you.


Regards


A

 

[Merlin1047]

I doubt he'd run circles around me. I'm a former broadcast journalist, professional speaker, writer, and 3 time Emmy award winning editor. As far as IQ, I'm well above the upper 1 percentile and a former Mensa member - not that that matters as I view most IQ tests as overly simplistic attempts to measure a narrowly defined set of cognitive functions, while disregarding the importance of creative intelligence. If you'd care to see some of my resume, you can visit my personal page at:

Oh my goodness. I was going to get into this conversation, but you scared me off. Don't know how a mere mortal can hope to compete.



You started off almost lucid. But you've come out of the closet with your last few posts and revealed yourself. You may be educated, you may be intelligent, but like most leftist you don't have walking-around sense. And like most pseudo-intellectual left wingers you are far more impressed with yourself than you have any right to be.

 

[CivilLiberty]

I was commenting on Fox 'News', not their commentary pieces. They still report the news and I believe it to be more accurate than the leading stations. I don't find them to be dishonest like the others.

A problem is that they blur the line between "opinion" and "news" far too much. There's a n interesting dissertation on FN entitled "Out Foxed" - worth a watch - but having said that, what Fox says and does is not central to the issue I write about, though that may change now that the election is over.

Impressive resume and congrats on the awards!

Thanks

Nonetheless, this isn't exactly Bush territory nor does it make one capable of running a country. This doesn't make Bush illiterate, when he has a very high IQ and graduated from Yale. I don't think people who are incompetent become Governors and Presidents of the free world. I think the moron titles should be left to those who try to demean our president. Disagreement I can see, but calling him names without merit is just retarded.

Whether or not I'm capable of running the country is not at issue - the original premise was "how can I judge", top which I stated that as a born and raised American it is my duty to do so.

As for my ad hominem statement on Bush, it's based on my research over the last few years of his statements, policies, and actions. I will concede that I should refrain from these ad hominems in this this forum and stick to dismembering him on his specific policies, actions and statements.



Regards,


Anndy

 

[Zhukov]

Do you consider the Wall Street Journal far right, objective or left?

I consider the Wall Street Journal capitalisitic. I freely admit these days many people consider that far-right.

He said he didn't read

Hardly indicative of illiteracy.

Perhaps - you are in Ohio, no? I'm sure you got the brunt of campaigning - we saw almost none in here in California.

Florida actually, at least for the last few months of the campaign.

It extends as far as the voting booth, and my right to state them publicly in articles or what have you.

No, because outside the booth it is just your opinion.

 

[musicman]

My, what a clever retort! How could I ever have doubted your stunning brilliance?





Cronkite's not "my boy" I am Libertarian, he is not.


Of course, if I had to choose between him and Brit hume....


A

You as much as called me an idiot, parroting what I hear from a news network. I told you to blow it out your ass. Now, you imply that this proves I'm less than intelligent. You're wrong. My temperature just rises a bit when I'm insulted. You're the one who came onto this board, tooting your own horn and calling everybody stupid. I say again, sir, blow it out your ass.

Cronkite IS your boy. He is your hero - your god - your icon, for you are a liberal. Oh, you masquerade as something else, but you are obviously a leftist, with all that worldview's accompanying arrogance, overinflated sense of your own importance, and intellectual dishonesty. Nice try.