Volt: Microcosm of the 'Green Scam.'

[PoliticalChic]

1. "Each Chevy Volt sold thus far may have as much as $250,000 in state and federal dollars in incentives behind it – a total of $3 billion altogether, according to an analysis by James Hohman, assistant director of fiscal policy at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy....included 18 government deals that included loans, rebates, grants and tax credits. The amount of government assistance does not include the fact that General Motors is currently 26 percent owned by the federal government.

2. The Volt subsidies flow through multiple companies involved in production. The analysis includes adding up the amount of government subsidies via tax credits and direct funding for not only General Motors, but other companies supplying parts for the vehicle. For example, the Department of Energy awarded a $105.9 million grant to the GM Brownstown plant that assembles the batteries. The company was also awarded approximately $106 million for its Hamtramck assembly plant in state credits to retain jobs. The company that supplies the Volt’s batteries, Compact Power, was awarded up to $100 million in refundable battery credits (combination tax breaks and cash subsidies). These are among many of the subsidies and tax credits for the vehicle.

3. If battery manufacturers awarded incentives to produce batteries the Volt may use are included in the analysis, the potential government subsidy per Volt increases to $256,824. For example, A123 Systems has received extensive state and federal support, and bid to be a supplier to the Volt, but the deal instead went to Compact Power. The $256,824 figure includes adding up the subsidies to both companies.

4. Additional state and local support provided to Volt suppliers was not included in the analysis, Hohman said, and could increase the level of government aid. For instance, the Volt is being assembled at the Poletown plant in Detroit/Hamtramck, which was built on land acquired by General Motors through eminent domain.

5. “It just goes to show there are certain folks that will spend anything to get their vision of what people should do,” said State Representative Tom McMillin, R-Rochester Hills. “It’s a glaring example of the failure of central planning trying to force citizens to purchase something they may not want. … They should let the free market make those decisions.”
http://www.michigancapitolconfidenti...6192&print=yes

6. BTW, since "average Volt owner makes $170,000 per year," why is the government tossing 'em a $7500 rebate???


And with all of the above, sales have not met expected numbers:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KJhdaQO_CM]GM Inflates Chevy Volt Stats With Fleet Sales - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Because the government wants everyone to by a $300,000 car for $40,000, and it does not care if the entire country goes broke along the way.

 

[Dragon]

The Volt is only one of quite a few electric cars and plug-in hybrids on the market.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The Volt is only one of quite a few electric cars and plug-in hybrids on the market.

And?

 

[Old Rocks]

There are going to be far more, and more differant typse. Some winners, many losers.

And the whole time you people are going to be crying about them. When you are not crying for the buggy whip manufacturers.

 

[martybegan]

There are going to be far more, and more differant typse. Some winners, many losers.

And the whole time you people are going to be crying about them. When you are not crying for the buggy whip manufacturers.

The difference between ICE vehicles taking over from horses and electric vehicles taking over from ICE vehicles is that government did not have to jump start the former as it has been doing with the latter.

Gasoline run vehicles took over because they became cheaper and easier to use an maintain than horses. They lasted longer, used less "fuel" and required far less maintenance and attention. They did not need rests on long trips. The early cars were simple to maintain, with the exception of the main powertrain, for someone with basic mechanical knowledge.

The current attempted switch to electrics is limited by the fact that the technology, in most situations, is giving you something worse than what it is trying to replace. Currently electrics should only be niche vehicles, good for trips to the store, or short commutes only. Until you can get the same range from an electric as you can from an ICE vehicle, and be able to recharge it as fast as you can fill a gas tank, they will always be inferior.

SO basically its like you are trying to bring horses BACK, along with thier buggy whips.

 

[PoliticalChic]

There are going to be far more, and more differant typse. Some winners, many losers.

And the whole time you people are going to be crying about them. When you are not crying for the buggy whip manufacturers.

Rocks...did you actually say " many losers...'???


Too funny, Rocks.


OK...now I almost feel guilty.
Almost.

Merry Christmas, Rocks!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There are going to be far more, and more differant typse. Some winners, many losers.

And the whole time you people are going to be crying about them. When you are not crying for the buggy whip manufacturers.

The buggy whip manufacturers? Seriously?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There are going to be far more, and more differant typse. Some winners, many losers.

And the whole time you people are going to be crying about them. When you are not crying for the buggy whip manufacturers.

The difference between ICE vehicles taking over from horses and electric vehicles taking over from ICE vehicles is that government did not have to jump start the former as it has been doing with the latter.

Gasoline run vehicles took over because they became cheaper and easier to use an maintain than horses. They lasted longer, used less "fuel" and required far less maintenance and attention. They did not need rests on long trips. The early cars were simple to maintain, with the exception of the main powertrain, for someone with basic mechanical knowledge.

The current attempted switch to electrics is limited by the fact that the technology, in most situations, is giving you something worse than what it is trying to replace. Currently electrics should only be niche vehicles, good for trips to the store, or short commutes only. Until you can get the same range from an electric as you can from an ICE vehicle, and be able to recharge it as fast as you can fill a gas tank, they will always be inferior.

SO basically its like you are trying to bring horses BACK, along with thier buggy whips.

You forgot to mention that Henry Ford's wife had an electric car. They have been around for years and never caught on, yet the government is spending millions to sell a few thousand of them.

 

[Trajan]

The Volt is only one of quite a few electric cars and plug-in hybrids on the market.

and your point is............................................?

 

[Dragon]

The Volt is only one of quite a few electric cars and plug-in hybrids on the market.

and your point is............................................?

That if you want to put down electric vehicles and be taken seriously, you can't cherry-pick just one of the many makes and models on the market that is infamously having problems.

 

[Trajan]

The Volt is only one of quite a few electric cars and plug-in hybrids on the market.

and your point is............................................?

That if you want to put down electric vehicles and be taken seriously, you can't cherry-pick just one of the many makes and models on the market that is infamously having problems.

assume much?

 

[Zander]

The Volt is a failure, unless you are GM, a member of the UAW, or a GM dealer. The dealers gamed the tax credit system and collected the lions share of the tax credits and they used the Volt as a bait and switch to sell customers other cars with higher profit margins. The taxpayer is left holding the bag, and the bill. It's what Obama calls a win.

 

[Old Rocks]

Yes, and you people counted out the Prius when Toyota was selling it at a loss. Now it is a very profitable and highly popular vehicle.

PC, ever see a Whippet? Do you know what a Henry J is? Yes, in a developing market, many losers, and only a few winners. That is the history of most of manufacturing.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yes, and you people counted out the Prius when Toyota was selling it at a loss. Now it is a very profitable and highly popular vehicle.

PC, ever see a Whippet? Do you know what a Henry J is? Yes, in a developing market, many losers, and only a few winners. That is the history of most of manufacturing.

Which people counted out the Prius? Be specific and provide citations.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The Volt is only one of quite a few electric cars and plug-in hybrids on the market.

and your point is............................................?

That if you want to put down electric vehicles and be taken seriously, you can't cherry-pick just one of the many makes and models on the market that is infamously having problems.

I am pretty sure that the OP was a blast of all EVs in the market since they all receive subsidies amounting to hundreds of thousands of dollars per vehicle.

 

[bripat9643]

I assume that firms who install charging stations are getting a subsidy of some kind to do so. I just noticed a charging station at my local Walgreen's store. Of course, it wasn't being used. Was this included in the total?

1. "Each Chevy Volt sold thus far may have as much as $250,000 in state and federal dollars in incentives behind it – a total of $3 billion altogether, according to an analysis by James Hohman, assistant director of fiscal policy at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy....included 18 government deals that included loans, rebates, grants and tax credits. The amount of government assistance does not include the fact that General Motors is currently 26 percent owned by the federal government.

2. The Volt subsidies flow through multiple companies involved in production. The analysis includes adding up the amount of government subsidies via tax credits and direct funding for not only General Motors, but other companies supplying parts for the vehicle. For example, the Department of Energy awarded a $105.9 million grant to the GM Brownstown plant that assembles the batteries. The company was also awarded approximately $106 million for its Hamtramck assembly plant in state credits to retain jobs. The company that supplies the Volt’s batteries, Compact Power, was awarded up to $100 million in refundable battery credits (combination tax breaks and cash subsidies). These are among many of the subsidies and tax credits for the vehicle.

3. If battery manufacturers awarded incentives to produce batteries the Volt may use are included in the analysis, the potential government subsidy per Volt increases to $256,824. For example, A123 Systems has received extensive state and federal support, and bid to be a supplier to the Volt, but the deal instead went to Compact Power. The $256,824 figure includes adding up the subsidies to both companies.

4. Additional state and local support provided to Volt suppliers was not included in the analysis, Hohman said, and could increase the level of government aid. For instance, the Volt is being assembled at the Poletown plant in Detroit/Hamtramck, which was built on land acquired by General Motors through eminent domain.

5. “It just goes to show there are certain folks that will spend anything to get their vision of what people should do,” said State Representative Tom McMillin, R-Rochester Hills. “It’s a glaring example of the failure of central planning trying to force citizens to purchase something they may not want. … They should let the free market make those decisions.”
http://www.michigancapitolconfidenti...6192&print=yes

6. BTW, since "average Volt owner makes $170,000 per year," why is the government tossing 'em a $7500 rebate???


And with all of the above, sales have not met expected numbers:

GM Inflates Chevy Volt Stats With Fleet Sales - YouTube

 

[PoliticalChic]

I assume that firms who install charging stations are getting a subsidy of some kind to do so. I just noticed a charging station at my local Walgreen's store. Of course, it wasn't being used. Was this included in the total?

1. "Each Chevy Volt sold thus far may have as much as $250,000 in state and federal dollars in incentives behind it – a total of $3 billion altogether, according to an analysis by James Hohman, assistant director of fiscal policy at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy....included 18 government deals that included loans, rebates, grants and tax credits. The amount of government assistance does not include the fact that General Motors is currently 26 percent owned by the federal government.

2. The Volt subsidies flow through multiple companies involved in production. The analysis includes adding up the amount of government subsidies via tax credits and direct funding for not only General Motors, but other companies supplying parts for the vehicle. For example, the Department of Energy awarded a $105.9 million grant to the GM Brownstown plant that assembles the batteries. The company was also awarded approximately $106 million for its Hamtramck assembly plant in state credits to retain jobs. The company that supplies the Volt’s batteries, Compact Power, was awarded up to $100 million in refundable battery credits (combination tax breaks and cash subsidies). These are among many of the subsidies and tax credits for the vehicle.

3. If battery manufacturers awarded incentives to produce batteries the Volt may use are included in the analysis, the potential government subsidy per Volt increases to $256,824. For example, A123 Systems has received extensive state and federal support, and bid to be a supplier to the Volt, but the deal instead went to Compact Power. The $256,824 figure includes adding up the subsidies to both companies.

4. Additional state and local support provided to Volt suppliers was not included in the analysis, Hohman said, and could increase the level of government aid. For instance, the Volt is being assembled at the Poletown plant in Detroit/Hamtramck, which was built on land acquired by General Motors through eminent domain.

5. “It just goes to show there are certain folks that will spend anything to get their vision of what people should do,” said State Representative Tom McMillin, R-Rochester Hills. “It’s a glaring example of the failure of central planning trying to force citizens to purchase something they may not want. … They should let the free market make those decisions.”
http://www.michigancapitolconfidenti...6192&print=yes

6. BTW, since "average Volt owner makes $170,000 per year," why is the government tossing 'em a $7500 rebate???


And with all of the above, sales have not met expected numbers:

GM Inflates Chevy Volt Stats With Fleet Sales - YouTube

I'll bet you're correct, Bipat...

...and there are probably other peripherals in the mix...

Are there tax benefits in hiring folks to maintain the charging stations?

This is another 'you have to pass the bill to find out what's in it' situations.