Vitter defends Southern influence in GOP, slams Voinovich

[paperview]

And tertiary - of a lower rank, about three places removed from the matter.

At last that was my thought as I was typing.

(Unless you want to go with pertaining to the period forming the earlier part of the Cenozoic Era) That might work too.

 

[paperview]

Lots of Southerners are dinosaurs after all.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Voinovich is wishy washy, I can't wait until he retires. I love my other senator, Sherrod Brown, he is so smart and decisive, I hope we get another one just like him.

It's been annoying with Voinovich and DeWine as Ohio Senators, both coasting to retirement for the past 10 years.

Geezus, go already..

I think it's funny when Repubs start eating their own.

It'll be a sad day if Voinovich's replacement is just like Sherrod Brown, or Voinovich himself.

 

[Missourian]

I don't know how your premise negates the general point editec was making here:

I think there IS a significant difference in basic values between the Southerners and (certainly at least the ) North-easterners.

We see it manifesting in election after election, after all.

Denying it is silly.

We even see it within the republican party, after all, and the democratic party, too.

The so called moderate Republicans are almost all from the NE.

The so-called bluedog Dems are almost all from the South and West.

In some ways the war between the states has never ended.

The shooting stopped, but the battle continues politically.

Actually I was responding to the OP, but if you're interested I would say this is a common fallacy held by northerners.

The real significant differences in basic values isn't between the north and the south, it is between rural and urban citizenry. It masquerades as north-south divide only due to the overwhelming urbanization of the north-east.

 

[paperview]

I don't know how your premise negates the general point editec was making here:

I think there IS a significant difference in basic values between the Southerners and (certainly at least the ) North-easterners.

We see it manifesting in election after election, after all.

Denying it is silly.

We even see it within the republican party, after all, and the democratic party, too.

The so called moderate Republicans are almost all from the NE.

The so-called bluedog Dems are almost all from the South and West.

In some ways the war between the states has never ended.

The shooting stopped, but the battle continues politically.

Actually I was responding to the OP, but if you're interested I would say this is a common fallacy held by northerners.

The real significant differences in basic values isn't between the north and the south, it is between rural and urban citizenry. It masquerades as north-south divide only due to the overwhelming urbanization of the north-east.

I absolutely disagree. There are plenty of urbanized cities down south, and even before the war they existed, to some degree. Up north, there are less, but still a goodly portion of the north quite rural.

The same strong regional identity and attitude existed and exists with the southerns, rural or not.

Your notion is the fallacy, imo.

 

[Missourian]

I don't know how your premise negates the general point editec was making here:

Actually I was responding to the OP, but if you're interested I would say this is a common fallacy held by northerners.

The real significant differences in basic values isn't between the north and the south, it is between rural and urban citizenry. It masquerades as north-south divide only due to the overwhelming urbanization of the north-east.

I absolutely disagree. There are plenty of urbanized cities down south, and even before the war they existed, to some degree.


Up north, there are less, but still a goodly portion of the north quite rural.


Your notion is the fallacy, imo.

See, you've lost me, are still talking about Ed's post.

As for the 'rural north-east".

Rank State Population density Top 10

1 New Jersey 438.00

2 Rhode Island 387.35

3 Massachusetts 312.68

4 Connecticut 271.40

5 Maryland 209.23

6 New York 155.18

7 Delaware 154.87

8 Florida 114.43

9 Ohio 107.05

10 Pennsylvania 105.80

Plus my beautiful state.

27 Missouri 31.36

This is a list of the 10 U.S. states, ordered by population density. The figures given are in people per square kilometer. The data is from the United States Census Bureau and is current as of 2000. List of U.S. states by population density - Indopedia, the Indological knowledgebase

​

Spot a trend, do ya?

 

[Modbert]

Actually I was responding to the OP, but if you're interested I would say this is a common fallacy held by northerners.

The real significant differences in basic values isn't between the north and the south, it is between rural and urban citizenry. It masquerades as north-south divide only due to the overwhelming urbanization of the north-east.

Really now? So tell me, which Southern States have Gay Marriage legalized? Which states have the strongest gun control? Which states voted for Obama more often?

It is ignorant to ignore the fact that it is partly about culture. There are plenty of urban areas here in the North East that are blue.

 

[Missourian]

Actually I was responding to the OP, but if you're interested I would say this is a common fallacy held by northerners.

The real significant differences in basic values isn't between the north and the south, it is between rural and urban citizenry. It masquerades as north-south divide only due to the overwhelming urbanization of the north-east.

Really now? So tell me, which Southern States have Gay Marriage legalized? Which states have the strongest gun control? Which states voted for Obama more often?

It is ignorant to ignore the fact that it is partly about culture. There are plenty of urban areas here in the North East that are blue.

Did you mean to say rural?

Otherwise you are making my side of the argument.

The more urban an area, the more progressive it becomes.

Urban areas NEED government far more than rural areas.

Without government cities would collapse within a day, maybe two, while rural areas could go for a week or more without NOTICING a lack of government.

Urbanites become accustom to dependence on government.

 

[garyd]

Urbanized? Hell even the urban centers are different in the South than they are in the North. New York City has a larger Population than many states out here between the mountains. Atlanta has a 1/3 the population of NYC and probably five times the land area.

 

[editec]

President Carter(D)...Southerner, born Plains GA

President Reagan(R)...Northerner, born Tampico IL

President Bush Sr(R)...Northerner, born in Milton, MA

President Clinton(D)...Southerner, born in Hope, AR

President Bush Jr(R)...Northerner, born in New Haven CT

President Obama(D)...Neither, born in Hawaii (or perhaps Kenya)

So tell me again who has the Southern influence?

I don't give a flying fuck where the POTUS was born.

Look at the whole picture of elections over the last fifty years and tell me there's no fundamental difference between these two culturals.

So it's not where there from or the culture they were raised in that counts...it's what they believe that's important?

Funny...that was my point too.

No it's merely not germane to my point.

There are such significant differences in values between the people of the NE V the people of the South, and that is clearly evidenced in the very different election outcomes and voting patterns of the last 150+ years.

Jesus! This is so evident that I find it difficult to believe you think it worthy of debate.

 

[editec]

I don't know how your premise negates the general point editec was making here:

I think there IS a significant difference in basic values between the Southerners and (certainly at least the ) North-easterners.

We see it manifesting in election after election, after all.

Denying it is silly.

We even see it within the republican party, after all, and the democratic party, too.

The so called moderate Republicans are almost all from the NE.

The so-called bluedog Dems are almost all from the South and West.

In some ways the war between the states has never ended.

The shooting stopped, but the battle continues politically.

Actually I was responding to the OP, but if you're interested I would say this is a common fallacy held by northerners.

And Southerners, too. Except it's no fallacy

The real significant differences in basic values isn't between the north and the south, it is between rural and urban citizenry.

Yes, that is partially true, also.

Still the difference in values are clearly manifesting between NE election outcomes v Southern election outcomes.

Why?

Which place is more URBAN, and which is more RURAL?

It masquerades as north-south divide only due to the overwhelming urbanization of the north-east.

it doesn't "maquerade" it manifests.

If it merely maqueraded, the results would not show up in election after election so consistently.

 

[Missourian]

And Southerners, too. Except it's no fallacy



Yes, that is partially true, also.

Still the difference in values are clearly manifesting between NE election outcomes v Southern election outcomes.

Why?

Which place is more URBAN, and which is more RURAL?

It masquerades as north-south divide only due to the overwhelming urbanization of the north-east.

it doesn't "maquerade" it manifests.

If it merely maqueraded, the results would not show up in election after election so consistently.

Is Montana southern?

South Dakota?

Iowa?

Nebraska?

Idaho?

Wyoming?

Oregon?

Ohio?

Indiana?

Kansas?

Utah?

Alaska?


Don't these state (in general, as we are speaking in general terms) hold what you would term 'southern' values?

But they certainly aren't southern states.

IMO there is a much stronger correlation between urban/rural cultural differences and party affiliation.


To Illustrate my point, here is the county by county results from the 2008 Presidential election:

And here is a population density map:

Look at how precisely the peaks in population density, the most urbanized areas, dovetail with the Democratic Parties island strongholds.

Certainly there are exceptions...rural Maine is blue and urban Ohio is red...but I think the evidence supports my theory extremely well.

 

[garyd]

Eidt you've just been hammered. Well done show me.