Virtue: Liberalism ...

[dblack]

Any individual can buy and consume as many sugary ounces as they want. What is being proposed by a conservative billionaire (Mayor Bloombberg) with responsibility for a major metropolitan city (NYC), is the sales of sugary drinks. Sales are regulated in the market place. Always have been and always will. There is NO restriction being proposed on how much sugar can be consumed. Liberty at stake?

next

The fact that the government tells anyone what they can and can't sell is a suppression of liberty.

Now run on back to the flock little sheep. The rancher needs dinner.

Government regulation is a built in part of any and all economic systems. The market place always recognizes the rights of government to regulate.

Ah.. but that term 'regulation' is the source of endless equivocation isn't it? Probably best not to use it at all for that reason. The question is whether laws pertaining to economic transactions serve to facilitate trade (i.e. to ensure honest, transparent dealings) or whether they have ulterior motives (social engineering, corporatism 'sweetheart deals', etc...).

Despite the reactionaries' claims, those of us complaining about the regulatory state, aren't promoting anarchy. We're speaking up against those who try to manipulate the economy, or society, to their own ends via the commerce clause. The fact that modern liberals tend to indulge just this kind of 'regulation' is the biggest reason liberalism has such a bad name. There's no need for that. Liberalism can exist side-by-side with a healthy respect for individual liberties.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Like marijuana?

Yes, exactly like marijuana.

How someone can think marijuana should be legal, and simultaneously support one of the 2 corporate parties is mind-boggling to me.

How anyone can support the two party system which has so utterly failed us is beyond me

Beats me, we just want the people we voted for to be the ones who take our liberties.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Like marijuana?

Yes, exactly like marijuana.

How someone can think marijuana should be legal, and simultaneously support one of the 2 corporate parties is mind-boggling to me.

How anyone can support the two party system which has so utterly failed us is beyond me

We have a multi-party system, not a two party system. In practice there are only two major parties. That's called choice. Why do you hate freedom? Is it only when you lose that you hate freedom and liberty?

Want a third party, start one. see how many of your friends and neighbors, the people who actually KNOW you, would bother to associate politically with you...

fuck you. you couldn't get the dog catcher to vote for you

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

There's statists in both parties and indies, Bloomberg is a perfect example.

Well done ignoring my post though, I'm surprised you even quoted me when you obviously didn't have a reply,

statist? reply to your inanities?


'what planet are you from, Drokster? talking to you is like talking to my keyboard.' - paraphrasing Barney Frank

Yes, statist, someone who favors heavy gov't control. If someone favors gov't regulating cup sizes, that person is by definition a statist.

Didn't really say anything that should invoke tantrum throwing.

statist: one more label used to demonize ones betters

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yes, exactly like marijuana.

How someone can think marijuana should be legal, and simultaneously support one of the 2 corporate parties is mind-boggling to me.

How anyone can support the two party system which has so utterly failed us is beyond me

We have a multi-party system, not a two party system. In practice there are only two major parties. That's called choice. Why do you hate freedom? Is it only when you lose that you hate freedom and liberty?

Want a third party, start one. see how many of your friends and neighbors, the people who actually KNOW you, would bother to associate politically with you...

fuck you. you couldn't get the dog catcher to vote for you

Bleat bleat says the little sheep.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Yes, exactly like marijuana.

How someone can think marijuana should be legal, and simultaneously support one of the 2 corporate parties is mind-boggling to me.

How anyone can support the two party system which has so utterly failed us is beyond me

We have a multi-party system, not a two party system. In practice there are only two major parties. That's called choice. Why do you hate freedom? Is it only when you lose that you hate freedom and liberty?

Want a third party, start one. see how many of your friends and neighbors, the people who actually KNOW you, would bother to associate politically with you...

fuck you. you couldn't get the dog catcher to vote for you

I love choice, I wish I had one.

Republicrat or Democan, not really a choice there.

 

[Dr.Drock]

statist? reply to your inanities?


'what planet are you from, Drokster? talking to you is like talking to my keyboard.' - paraphrasing Barney Frank

Yes, statist, someone who favors heavy gov't control. If someone favors gov't regulating cup sizes, that person is by definition a statist.

Didn't really say anything that should invoke tantrum throwing.

statist: one more label used to demonize ones betters

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

How anyone can support the two party system which has so utterly failed us is beyond me

We have a multi-party system, not a two party system. In practice there are only two major parties. That's called choice. Why do you hate freedom? Is it only when you lose that you hate freedom and liberty?

Want a third party, start one. see how many of your friends and neighbors, the people who actually KNOW you, would bother to associate politically with you...

fuck you. you couldn't get the dog catcher to vote for you

I love choice, I wish I had one.

Republicrat or Democan, not really a choice there.

oh you're a political slacker? you dislike the general election choices that come a-f-t-e-r the primaries where politically engaged people select their choices from their own parties?

wow! Your lack of comprehension on civics is stunning. Did you ever attend school as a child?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

How anyone can support the two party system which has so utterly failed us is beyond me

We have a multi-party system, not a two party system. In practice there are only two major parties. That's called choice. Why do you hate freedom? Is it only when you lose that you hate freedom and liberty?

Want a third party, start one. see how many of your friends and neighbors, the people who actually KNOW you, would bother to associate politically with you...

fuck you. you couldn't get the dog catcher to vote for you

Bleat bleat says the little sheep.

another one who doesn't quite comprehend the system we have?

so, you all collect into gaggles on the world wide web in order to collectively spout your ignorances and imbecilities?

cool

 

[Dr.Drock]

We have a multi-party system, not a two party system. In practice there are only two major parties. That's called choice. Why do you hate freedom? Is it only when you lose that you hate freedom and liberty?

Want a third party, start one. see how many of your friends and neighbors, the people who actually KNOW you, would bother to associate politically with you...

fuck you. you couldn't get the dog catcher to vote for you

I love choice, I wish I had one.

Republicrat or Democan, not really a choice there.

oh you're a political slacker? you dislike the general election choices that come a-f-t-e-r the primaries where politically engaged people select their choices from their own parties?

wow! Your lack of comprehension on civics is stunning. Did you ever attend school as a child?

Yes, I do dislike those non-choices.

Where did I say or show that I don't understand it? By saying both parties suck? Are you that deeply offended that someone would dare speak ill of the democrat party?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I love choice, I wish I had one.

Republicrat or Democan, not really a choice there.

oh you're a political slacker? you dislike the general election choices that come a-f-t-e-r the primaries where politically engaged people select their choices from their own parties?

wow! Your lack of comprehension on civics is stunning. Did you ever attend school as a child?

Yes, I do dislike those non-choices.

Where did I say or show that I don't understand it? By saying both parties suck? Are you that deeply offended that someone would dare speak ill of the democrat party?

You don't understand the people are free to start a third party or a fourth...oh wait!!! We have more than two parties in the USA. The people only truly support two major parties.

now who would be to blame for that? I'm talking local politics and party primaries? Who gets involved?

Why don't people know facts and get so swayed so easily by money? Because they are dipshits who are not involved .. we get the government we deserve.

end of story

 

[Dr.Drock]

oh you're a political slacker? you dislike the general election choices that come a-f-t-e-r the primaries where politically engaged people select their choices from their own parties?

wow! Your lack of comprehension on civics is stunning. Did you ever attend school as a child?

Yes, I do dislike those non-choices.

Where did I say or show that I don't understand it? By saying both parties suck? Are you that deeply offended that someone would dare speak ill of the democrat party?

You don't understand the people are free to start a third party or a fourth...oh wait!!! We have more than two parties in the USA. The people only truly support two major parties.

now who would be to blame for that? I'm talking local politics and party primaries? Who gets involved?

Why don't people know facts and get so swayed so easily by money? Because they are dipshits who are not involved .. we get the government we deserve.

end of story

Actually I understand that.

But yes, we the people are to blame I agree. We fall for propoganda from both corporate owned parties.

 

[dblack]

Regarding the topic of liberalism as a virtue, I'd suggest that liberalism, as represented by Democrats, has "lost its way" in much the same way that conservatism, as represented by Republicans, has. Each has been overwhelmed by the growing trend of corporatism.

I'd like to see a Ron Paul like character emerge from the Democrats - someone to stand up for genuine liberalism, rejecting the impulse toward authoritarian rule.

 

[kwc57]

The fact that the government tells anyone what they can and can't sell is a suppression of liberty.

Now run on back to the flock little sheep. The rancher needs dinner.

Government regulation is a built in part of any and all economic systems. The market place always recognizes the rights of government to regulate.

Ah.. but that term 'regulation' is the source of endless equivocation isn't it? Probably best not to use it at all for that reason. The question is whether laws pertaining to economic transactions serve to facilitate trade (i.e. to ensure honest, transparent dealings) or whether they have ulterior motives (social engineering, corporatism 'sweetheart deals', etc...).

Despite the reactionaries' claims, those of us complaining about the regulatory state, aren't promoting anarchy. We're speaking up against those who try to manipulate the economy, or society, to their own ends via the commerce clause. The fact that modern liberals tend to indulge just this kind of 'regulation' is the biggest reason liberalism has such a bad name. There's no need for that. Liberalism can exist side-by-side with a healthy respect for individual liberties.

But, but, but........limiting an individual drink to 16 ounces is for the sake of the chillllllldren. Daintie and Bloomberg must save these poor chillllllldren from themselves. They know what is best for them. The average citizen is considered too stoopid to make their own choices, so we need the wise and fatherly government to do it for us.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Yes, I do dislike those non-choices.

Where did I say or show that I don't understand it? By saying both parties suck? Are you that deeply offended that someone would dare speak ill of the democrat party?

You don't understand the people are free to start a third party or a fourth...oh wait!!! We have more than two parties in the USA. The people only truly support two major parties.

now who would be to blame for that? I'm talking local politics and party primaries? Who gets involved?

Why don't people know facts and get so swayed so easily by money? Because they are dipshits who are not involved .. we get the government we deserve.

end of story

Actually I understand that.

But yes, we the people are to blame I agree. We fall for propoganda from both corporate owned parties.

Propaganda and money? I'm talking local political involvement and the nuts and bolts of party building. I'm talking the system being used by the people.

Abdication of responsibility is what most Americans suffer from. A republic like ours depends upon participation of the people.

No excuses. No retreat. No excuses.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Regarding the topic of liberalism as a virtue, I'd suggest that liberalism, as represented by Democrats, has "lost its way" in much the same way that conservatism, as represented by Republicans, has. Each has been overwhelmed by the growing trend of corporatism.

I'd like to see a Ron Paul like character emerge from the Democrats - someone to stand up for genuine liberalism, rejecting the impulse toward authoritarian rule.

dblack, are you this stupid in real life?

The Democratic party n-e-v-e-r had, and never will have, a hold on Liberalism. Liberalism is a philosophy and ideological stance.

The GOP had lots of liberals in it before Goldwater and then Reagan took the GOP into the cesspool of extreme conservative partisanship. Now that some Democrats are trying bring the DNC along into that cesspool is not an argument that helps make you look intelligent and informed.

Ron Paul is a certifiable nitiwt

 

[Dr.Drock]

You don't understand the people are free to start a third party or a fourth...oh wait!!! We have more than two parties in the USA. The people only truly support two major parties.

now who would be to blame for that? I'm talking local politics and party primaries? Who gets involved?

Why don't people know facts and get so swayed so easily by money? Because they are dipshits who are not involved .. we get the government we deserve.

end of story

Actually I understand that.

But yes, we the people are to blame I agree. We fall for propoganda from both corporate owned parties.

Propaganda and money? I'm talking local political involvement and the nuts and bolts of party building. I'm talking the system being used by the people.

Abdication of responsibility is what most Americans suffer from. A republic like ours depends upon participation of the people.

No excuses. No retreat. No excuses.

Commercials are a lot better way to get to people than door to door salesmanship, money will always win out.

Abdication of responsibility is a human flaw, a flaw exhibited by americans less than any other country or culture in the world but yes the flaw is still there. I always push to have more responsibility put on americans, that's part of being libertarian. But responsibility on americans rather than on gov't.

 

[dblack]

Regarding the topic of liberalism as a virtue, I'd suggest that liberalism, as represented by Democrats, has "lost its way" in much the same way that conservatism, as represented by Republicans, has. Each has been overwhelmed by the growing trend of corporatism.

I'd like to see a Ron Paul like character emerge from the Democrats - someone to stand up for genuine liberalism, rejecting the impulse toward authoritarian rule.

dblack, are you this stupid in real life?

Even stupider! 'Specially if you listen to the gf.

The Democratic party n-e-v-e-r had, and never will have, a hold on Liberalism. Liberalism is a philosophy and ideological stance.

Sure. You could say the same thing about the Republicans and conservatism. Thus the "as represented by" portions of my post. Did you not read that far?

Ron Paul is a certifiable nitiwt

Good answer! Good answer!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Regarding the topic of liberalism as a virtue, I'd suggest that liberalism, as represented by Democrats, has "lost its way" in much the same way that conservatism, as represented by Republicans, has. Each has been overwhelmed by the growing trend of corporatism.

I'd like to see a Ron Paul like character emerge from the Democrats - someone to stand up for genuine liberalism, rejecting the impulse toward authoritarian rule.

dblack, are you this stupid in real life?

Even stupider! 'Specially if you listen to the gf.

The Democratic party n-e-v-e-r had, and never will have, a hold on Liberalism. Liberalism is a philosophy and ideological stance.

Sure. You could say the same thing about the Republicans and conservatism. Thus the "as represented by" portions of my post. Did you not read that far?

Ron Paul is a certifiable nitiwt

Good answer! Good answer!

difficult to go far back when some people insist on polluting a thread. sorry, I missed part of what you said.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Actually I understand that.

But yes, we the people are to blame I agree. We fall for propoganda from both corporate owned parties.

Propaganda and money? I'm talking local political involvement and the nuts and bolts of party building. I'm talking the system being used by the people.

Abdication of responsibility is what most Americans suffer from. A republic like ours depends upon participation of the people.

No excuses. No retreat. No excuses.

Commercials are a lot better way to get to people than door to door salesmanship, money will always win out.

Abdication of responsibility is a human flaw, a flaw exhibited by americans less than any other country or culture in the world but yes the flaw is still there. I always push to have more responsibility put on americans, that's part of being libertarian. But responsibility on americans rather than on gov't.

Listen up: One last time: Local political involvement,

How do you think the 'new' right came about out of the ashes of the Nixon 70s? How did the Christian Evangelicals spring into power? How did Howard Dean supporters and the Obama-bots revive a dying Democratic party?

lesson over. do some real research and you will see, organizing with friends, family and neighbors first will build a powerful base on which to move up the ladder of elective politics. If you can't persuade people who know you best, or can't persuade those who live close by and who share your interests, how the heck do you expect to persuade others in enough numbers to actually effect change or grab a piece of the power?

It's all about power. Power to be heard, power to influence, power to do whatever it is you desire.

lesson over