Violence vs Self Defense in schools.

[BrutalTruth]

I'd like to gain some opinions here

In schools in the USA, the policy for violence is set to zero tolerance. While this may sound like a good thing, I've been through several scenarios myself where this policy doesn't really seem to stack up to it's majestic sounding hype.

For example, on more than one occasion as a youth in the school system, I found myself in a situation where I was being bullied. Sound tragic? Probably not, because I'm sure we've all been there right? So, when this happens, the instructions are not to resort to violence, that we should grab a teacher and report it, and walk away. The trouble is, many time when trying to do so, the aggressor has other plans. While trying to be the docile and civil one in the conflict, you put yourself at the risk of being blindsided by the aggressor, and you are not permitted to practice the "common law" of self defense without repercussion.

If you defend yourself because of a known threat, not only will the person you are defending yourself against be ejected from school for a period of time, so too will you. For practicing your basic right as a human to defend yourself, you too will be ejected from school. Somehow it's been implemented into the schools that they are above federal law, and your rights as a human no longer exist?

I am now a father, and have a son in the third grade, of which I'm a single parent, and sole parental figure do to reasons I won't get into, though probably obvious. As a part of my job in being the parent and protector of my son, I've instructed him very thoroughly on this matter. He knows that "In no way, do you ever let another person do harm to you, let them touch you, violate your personal space, or present a potential threat. If you are hit, you fight back. If being hit looks imminent, you fight first."

Does anyone have any feedback in opposition to this instruction, and if so, please tell me why I should tell my child that being hit, threatened, and oppressed is something he should not fight back on? When you get done, please tell your military the same things...

This is the land of the free, home of the brave, and a kid in school deserves the same rights as any human...

The overall message: Mess with this family, and you will infact get your tail kicked in.

 

[High_Gravity]

The problem is self defense is seen as violence too, both the bullies and the kid who defend themselves are given the same punishments nowadays.

 

[Ernie S.]

I worked for a very liberal company many years ago. I was in a salaried position and a union member had some silly beef with my instructions and without any provocation he hit me square in the jaw. Knocked me out! I was fired for "fighting" though I never lifted a hand. He was protected by the union.
He did mysteriously get 4 flat tires a few days later.

 

[BrutalTruth]

The problem is self defense is seen as violence too, both the bullies and the kid who defend themselves are given the same punishments nowadays.

That's what I'm saying @highgravity

"The Problem Is" self defense is seen as violence in schools, but a right in real life. That is definitely "The Problem".

Would you agree? Or is it right?

 

[BrutalTruth]

I worked for a very liberal company many years ago. I was in a salaried position and a union member had some silly beef with my instructions and without any provocation he hit me square in the jaw. Knocked me out! I was fired for "fighting" though I never lifted a hand. He was protected by the union.
He did mysteriously get 4 flat tires a few days later.

Very sorry to hear that. That seems to be related as well then, and the work place should be no different, but it as well is. Defending yourself should be allowed, and without repercussion. There is no excuse for any institution of any sort to be able to take away your basic rights as a human. Whether they hold your paycheck, or your diploma, they still essentially work for you, Joe Public. Without you, they are nothing.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Zero tolerance = Zero intelligence

 

[BrutalTruth]

Zero tolerance = Zero intelligence

Very true!

 

[High_Gravity]

The problem is self defense is seen as violence too, both the bullies and the kid who defend themselves are given the same punishments nowadays.

That's what I'm saying @highgravity

"The Problem Is" self defense is seen as violence in schools, but a right in real life. That is definitely "The Problem".

Would you agree? Or is it right?

The schools don't want to get involved and are scared of lawsuits so they just punish everyone, whereas in real life if you get into a fist fight the person who threw the first punch is usually arrested.

 

[PoliticalChic]

August 17 1786 Davy Crockett born near Limestone, Tennessee. Hero and backwoods statesman, his motto was:
“Be always sure you are right, then go ahead.”

The dif between violence and self-defense.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The problem is self defense is seen as violence too, both the bullies and the kid who defend themselves are given the same punishments nowadays.

That's what I'm saying @highgravity

"The Problem Is" self defense is seen as violence in schools, but a right in real life. That is definitely "The Problem".

Would you agree? Or is it right?

I've always told my son he has a right to defend himself and I will support him against the school every step of the way as long as he doesn't initiate the violence.

 

[High_Gravity]

The problem is self defense is seen as violence too, both the bullies and the kid who defend themselves are given the same punishments nowadays.

That's what I'm saying @highgravity

"The Problem Is" self defense is seen as violence in schools, but a right in real life. That is definitely "The Problem".

Would you agree? Or is it right?

I've always told my son he has a right to defend himself and I will support him against the school every step of the way as long as he doesn't initiate the violence.

Thats all you can do.

 

[BrutalTruth]

The problem is self defense is seen as violence too, both the bullies and the kid who defend themselves are given the same punishments nowadays.

That's what I'm saying @highgravity

"The Problem Is" self defense is seen as violence in schools, but a right in real life. That is definitely "The Problem".

Would you agree? Or is it right?

The schools don't want to get involved and are scared of lawsuits so they just punish everyone, whereas in real life if you get into a fist fight the person who threw the first punch is usually arrested.

That as well is very true, but here is even more of a problem. The schools already are involved. So much so that parents are "legally forced" to send their children their, or be imprisoned. So, whether they want to be involved or not, they need to be just as accountable as the people who can be imprisoned for not sending their children there. They may not want to face legal action, but who does?

What kind of sense does it make for "Us" to be held accountable by legal action for not sending our kids there, but for them to be permitted to dismiss our children's basic human rights because they don't want to be accountable for any legal action?

The public school system, "Where you will be jailed if you don't let us strip your child's human rights"?? all to save our butts.

I don't remember seeing that slogan at the ballots lol.

 

[High_Gravity]

That's what I'm saying @highgravity

"The Problem Is" self defense is seen as violence in schools, but a right in real life. That is definitely "The Problem".

Would you agree? Or is it right?

The schools don't want to get involved and are scared of lawsuits so they just punish everyone, whereas in real life if you get into a fist fight the person who threw the first punch is usually arrested.

That as well is very true, but here is even more of a problem. The schools already are involved. So much so that parents are "legally forced" to send their children their, or be imprisoned. So, whether they want to be involved or not, they need to be just as accountable as the people who can be imprisoned for not sending their children there. They may not want to face legal action, but who does?

What kind of sense does it make for "Us" to be held accountable by legal action for not sending our kids there, but for them to be permitted to dismiss our children's basic human rights because they don't want to be accountable for any legal action?

The public school system, "Where you will be jailed if you don't let us strip your child's human rights"?? all to save our butts.

I don't remember seeing that slogan at the ballots lol.

It is what it is, the schools have no real authority to punish the students and the kids know. Getting suspended doesn't do anything because thats just giving the kids a few days off of school. Its just easier for the schools to punish everyone the same way for fighting no matter what the circumstances are, thats just the way it is.

 

[BrutalTruth]

That's what I'm saying @highgravity

"The Problem Is" self defense is seen as violence in schools, but a right in real life. That is definitely "The Problem".

Would you agree? Or is it right?

I've always told my son he has a right to defend himself and I will support him against the school every step of the way as long as he doesn't initiate the violence.

Thats all you can do.

It's one thing you can do, definitely. Is it really all we can do though? If so, why are we paying into a system that doesn't work or hear us?

Oh yeah... they have those people with machine guns and stuff backing them.

Very frusterated

 

[BrutalTruth]

The schools don't want to get involved and are scared of lawsuits so they just punish everyone, whereas in real life if you get into a fist fight the person who threw the first punch is usually arrested.

That as well is very true, but here is even more of a problem. The schools already are involved. So much so that parents are "legally forced" to send their children their, or be imprisoned. So, whether they want to be involved or not, they need to be just as accountable as the people who can be imprisoned for not sending their children there. They may not want to face legal action, but who does?

What kind of sense does it make for "Us" to be held accountable by legal action for not sending our kids there, but for them to be permitted to dismiss our children's basic human rights because they don't want to be accountable for any legal action?

The public school system, "Where you will be jailed if you don't let us strip your child's human rights"?? all to save our butts.

I don't remember seeing that slogan at the ballots lol.

It is what it is, the schools have no real authority to punish the students and the kids know. Getting suspended doesn't do anything because thats just giving the kids a few days off of school. Its just easier for the schools to punish everyone the same way for fighting no matter what the circumstances are, thats just the way it is.

It is what it is, but doesn't mean it has to be. Not so long ago, women didn't work, nor vote. That was what it was, but it isn't what it was, right?

What to do, what to do.

 

[High_Gravity]

That as well is very true, but here is even more of a problem. The schools already are involved. So much so that parents are "legally forced" to send their children their, or be imprisoned. So, whether they want to be involved or not, they need to be just as accountable as the people who can be imprisoned for not sending their children there. They may not want to face legal action, but who does?

What kind of sense does it make for "Us" to be held accountable by legal action for not sending our kids there, but for them to be permitted to dismiss our children's basic human rights because they don't want to be accountable for any legal action?

The public school system, "Where you will be jailed if you don't let us strip your child's human rights"?? all to save our butts.

I don't remember seeing that slogan at the ballots lol.

It is what it is, the schools have no real authority to punish the students and the kids know. Getting suspended doesn't do anything because thats just giving the kids a few days off of school. Its just easier for the schools to punish everyone the same way for fighting no matter what the circumstances are, thats just the way it is.

It is what it is, but doesn't mean it has to be. Not so long ago, women didn't work, nor vote. That was what it was, but it isn't what it was, right?

What to do, what to do.

You are right but how can we get the schools to change? they can't even really discipline these kids anyways.

 

[MikeK]

August 17 1786 Davy Crockett born near Limestone, Tennessee. Hero and backwoods statesman, his motto was:
“Be always sure you are right, then go ahead.”

The dif between violence and self-defense.

The dif[ference] between violence and self-defense -- is what?

 

[BrutalTruth]

It is what it is, the schools have no real authority to punish the students and the kids know. Getting suspended doesn't do anything because thats just giving the kids a few days off of school. Its just easier for the schools to punish everyone the same way for fighting no matter what the circumstances are, thats just the way it is.

It is what it is, but doesn't mean it has to be. Not so long ago, women didn't work, nor vote. That was what it was, but it isn't what it was, right?

What to do, what to do.

You are right but how can we get the schools to change? they can't even really discipline these kids anyways.

Well, it seems as if it would be pretty cut and dry with the right people pushing the issue. I mean, if they took religion out of the schools based on it be "unconstitutional", then how could they possibly insist that a child does not have the right to self defense, though it's written within the constitution that they do?

Self defense isn't in the constitution anywhere? Of course it is, so how is it that it's being left out of our school systems, a place that we are instructed by law that we will be punished for not sending our children.

These type of things infuriate me to no end, and as a veteran, even more so. People wonder why so many of the people going postal in the nation are ex-military. Chances are, they shouldn't have been told to swear to an oath that states "I promise to defend this country and constitution, against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. When it's your own government that continues to violate constitutional boundaries that millions of men have shed their blood over, is there any real wonder?

People are proud to serve, and the old saying goes, "Be careful what you wish for, or you just might get it."

If that isn't contradictory enough, God is left out of the school because it's unconstitutional, but take a look at the military swear in oath.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

In all honesty, these people are nothing but racketeering idiots, riding in on the sacks of anyone that they feel will send them an extra dollar for the words coming out of their mouths. There needs to be a shift of empowerment, and it needs to be now.

 

[High_Gravity]

It is what it is, but doesn't mean it has to be. Not so long ago, women didn't work, nor vote. That was what it was, but it isn't what it was, right?

What to do, what to do.

You are right but how can we get the schools to change? they can't even really discipline these kids anyways.

Well, it seems as if it would be pretty cut and dry with the right people pushing the issue. I mean, if they took religion out of the schools based on it be "unconstitutional", then how could they possibly insist that a child does not have the right to self defense, though it's written within the constitution that they do?

Self defense isn't in the constitution anywhere? Of course it is, so how is it that it's being left out of our school systems, a place that we are instructed by law that we will be punished for not sending our children.

These type of things infuriate me to no end, and as a veteran, even more so. People wonder why so many of the people going postal in the nation are ex-military. Chances are, they shouldn't have been told to swear to an oath that states "I promise to defend this country and constitution, against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. When it's your own government that continues to violate constitutional boundaries that millions of men have shed their blood over, is there any real wonder?

People are proud to serve, and the old saying goes, "Be careful what you wish for, or you just might get it."

Children don't have the same rights as adults though, people can rape a child in this country and get a suspended sentence and community service, happens all the time. If the system hardly cares about kids being raped why should they care about kids having a tough time in school?

 

[BrutalTruth]

You are right but how can we get the schools to change? they can't even really discipline these kids anyways.

Well, it seems as if it would be pretty cut and dry with the right people pushing the issue. I mean, if they took religion out of the schools based on it be "unconstitutional", then how could they possibly insist that a child does not have the right to self defense, though it's written within the constitution that they do?

Self defense isn't in the constitution anywhere? Of course it is, so how is it that it's being left out of our school systems, a place that we are instructed by law that we will be punished for not sending our children.

These type of things infuriate me to no end, and as a veteran, even more so. People wonder why so many of the people going postal in the nation are ex-military. Chances are, they shouldn't have been told to swear to an oath that states "I promise to defend this country and constitution, against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. When it's your own government that continues to violate constitutional boundaries that millions of men have shed their blood over, is there any real wonder?

People are proud to serve, and the old saying goes, "Be careful what you wish for, or you just might get it."

Children don't have the same rights as adults though, people can rape a child in this country and get a suspended sentence and community service, happens all the time. If the system hardly cares about kids being raped why should they care about kids having a tough time in school?

Exactly right, and another prime example our country is being led by racketeers. A person committing tax evasion is likely to get a longer sentence for not sending "our government" (so they like to be called) their money, as opposed to some freak who played hide the winky in a little kid.

Justice served? Nope, but they by golly found a way to get that money heh? Oh, yeah