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I have no idea what you're talking about.That is like saying that the Realtor you hired to buy a home is representing you instead of the seller. A thin fig leaf at best, IMO.People who own the given property create the debt instruments instead of banks
Banks need the collateral to make the mortgage, and they cannot do that without a buyer wanting to buy a home, so it is kind of a mutual suicide pact.
So if I sell my home, I have to hold the note...…...I don't get my money in a lump sum?People who own the given property create the debt instruments instead of banks
So if I sell my home, I have to hold the note...…...I don't get my money in a lump sum?
Auto manufacturers create their own finance contracts.
You want auto companies to borrow billions from the banks, and then turn around and finance the buyers?
No creating money out of thin air for the bankseters to then collect interest on.
Banks don't create money out of thin air (except central banks, of course).
Every dollar JPMorgan lends to you, they have to borrow from someone else.
People that have to get subprime mortgages don't do that sort of thing, dude.These transactions would become very easy, and made with boilerplate contracts that you could get at an office supply store.....Have a real estate attorney look over the agreements and you're on your way.
Something was lost in translation.People who own the given property create the debt instruments instead of banksUntil we go back to money of substance and privatize the creation of credit, the banks will run the entire economy....In fact, that's the point of the Fed and fiat money.I agree 110%. Banks should not be allowed to take the peoples savings and play with it at the Wall Street Casino.
And derivatives are simply insane.
privatize the creation of credit,
What do you mean?
Auto manufacturers create their own finance contracts.
Landowners/homeowners create their own real estate contracts.
And so on.
No creating money out of thin air for the bankseters to then collect interest on.
So if I sell my home, I have to hold the note...…...I don't get my money in a lump sum?
Life's a bitch, ain't it?...Sell the contract.
You want auto companies to borrow billions from the banks, and then turn around and finance the buyers?
Why would they need to borrow from banks if they accumulate capital themselves?
Banks don't create money out of thin air (except central banks, of course).
Every dollar JPMorgan lends to you, they have to borrow from someone else.
The fuck they don't...Never heard of fractional reserve, have you?
Subprime mortgages are the playthings of the money-for-nothing banksters.People that have to get subprime mortgages don't do that sort of thing, dude.These transactions would become very easy, and made with boilerplate contracts that you could get at an office supply store.....Have a real estate attorney look over the agreements and you're on your way.
But they are super bad for credit liquidity when they fail when the teaser rates end.Subprime mortgages are the playthings of the money-for-nothing banksters.People that have to get subprime mortgages don't do that sort of thing, dude.These transactions would become very easy, and made with boilerplate contracts that you could get at an office supply store.....Have a real estate attorney look over the agreements and you're on your way.
They're super bad in the first place...Only a fool or someone with nothing to lose extends that kind of deal.But they are super bad for credit liquidity when they fail when the teaser rates end.Subprime mortgages are the playthings of the money-for-nothing banksters.People that have to get subprime mortgages don't do that sort of thing, dude.These transactions would become very easy, and made with boilerplate contracts that you could get at an office supply store.....Have a real estate attorney look over the agreements and you're on your way.
So if I sell my home, I have to hold the note...…...I don't get my money in a lump sum?People who own the given property create the debt instruments instead of banks
So if I sell my home, I have to hold the note...…...I don't get my money in a lump sum?
Auto manufacturers create their own finance contracts.
You want auto companies to borrow billions from the banks, and then turn around and finance the buyers?
No creating money out of thin air for the bankseters to then collect interest on.
Banks don't create money out of thin air (except central banks, of course).
Every dollar JPMorgan lends to you, they have to borrow from someone else.
Life's a bitch, ain't it?...Sell all or part of the contract.
You want auto companies to borrow billions from the banks, and then turn around and finance the buyers?
Why would they need to borrow from banks if they accumulate capital themselves?
Banks don't create money out of thin air (except central banks, of course).
Every dollar JPMorgan lends to you, they have to borrow from someone else.
The fuck they don't...Never heard of fractional reserve, have you?
I didn't blame the CDSs alone for the crisis. They were a piece of the puzzle. As were the phantom AAA ratings, the shit CDOs and CMOs, Greenspan refusing to regulate derivatives, highly questionable behavior by the banks, and several other actions that didn't have to happen.AIG insured about $80 billion as I recall, a small part of the overall market. But it was more than large enough to take them down, make them go hat in hand to the Feds, and feed the panic and frenzy and exacerbate the entire mess significantly. So the figure could have been any number for what it caused. It wasn't about the number, it was about the timing, the panic, the momentum of the disaster, and the balance sheets of the "insured".Write mortgages? Sure, banks have almost always done that.What about mortgages? Should they be allowed to write mortgages?
Securitize them into hyper-complicated CMO's and even more hideous CDO's, have them somehow magically blessed with Treasury-level ratings, watch companies like AIG take risk off of everyone's balance sheets by writing CDS's with zero (0) reserve requirements, and occasionally team up with hedge fund managers like John Paulson to create steaming piles of garbage, sell them to clients, and then bet against them for a few billion in profit?
No. No way. No damn way.
.
Securitize them into hyper-complicated CMO's and even more hideous CDO's
Slicing crappy mortgages into pieces leaves you with crappy mortgages.
have them somehow magically blessed with Treasury-level ratings,
Yeah, the ratings agencies were awful!
watch companies like AIG take risk off of everyone's balance sheets by writing CDS's with zero (0) reserve requirements
How much did they insure? 1% of the mortgages? Less?
and occasionally team up with hedge fund managers like John Paulson to create steaming piles of garbage, sell them to clients, and then bet against them
You understand how synthetics work, right?
If you sell one, there is no second step needed to "bet against them", right?
What is your point?
.
AIG insured about $80 billion as I recall, a small part of the overall market. But it was more than large enough to take them down,
Yes, it took AIG down like Hillary at a 9/11 memorial.
But compared to the 19 million subprime loans on the books of Fannie and Freddie......almost unnoticeable.
What is your point?
Blaming AIG's credit default swaps on MBS for the crisis or the bubble is silly.
And most people don't have a clue about synthetic securities.
If you're going to represent something I'm saying, please use quotes instead of fabricating positions.
.
Great, thanks.I didn't blame the CDSs alone for the crisis. They were a piece of the puzzle. As were the phantom AAA ratings, the shit CDOs and CMOs, Greenspan refusing to regulate derivatives, highly questionable behavior by the banks, and several other actions that didn't have to happen.AIG insured about $80 billion as I recall, a small part of the overall market. But it was more than large enough to take them down, make them go hat in hand to the Feds, and feed the panic and frenzy and exacerbate the entire mess significantly. So the figure could have been any number for what it caused. It wasn't about the number, it was about the timing, the panic, the momentum of the disaster, and the balance sheets of the "insured".Write mortgages? Sure, banks have almost always done that.
Securitize them into hyper-complicated CMO's and even more hideous CDO's, have them somehow magically blessed with Treasury-level ratings, watch companies like AIG take risk off of everyone's balance sheets by writing CDS's with zero (0) reserve requirements, and occasionally team up with hedge fund managers like John Paulson to create steaming piles of garbage, sell them to clients, and then bet against them for a few billion in profit?
No. No way. No damn way.
.
Securitize them into hyper-complicated CMO's and even more hideous CDO's
Slicing crappy mortgages into pieces leaves you with crappy mortgages.
have them somehow magically blessed with Treasury-level ratings,
Yeah, the ratings agencies were awful!
watch companies like AIG take risk off of everyone's balance sheets by writing CDS's with zero (0) reserve requirements
How much did they insure? 1% of the mortgages? Less?
and occasionally team up with hedge fund managers like John Paulson to create steaming piles of garbage, sell them to clients, and then bet against them
You understand how synthetics work, right?
If you sell one, there is no second step needed to "bet against them", right?
What is your point?
.
AIG insured about $80 billion as I recall, a small part of the overall market. But it was more than large enough to take them down,
Yes, it took AIG down like Hillary at a 9/11 memorial.
But compared to the 19 million subprime loans on the books of Fannie and Freddie......almost unnoticeable.
What is your point?
Blaming AIG's credit default swaps on MBS for the crisis or the bubble is silly.
And most people don't have a clue about synthetic securities.
If you're going to represent something I'm saying, please use quotes instead of fabricating positions.
.
I didn't blame the CDSs alone for the crisis. They were a piece of the puzzle.
"Credit default swaps played a HUGE role because they allowed the people buying the shit securities to transfer risk to the insurance company, like AIG, which was its own disaster within a disaster. So the whole process could continue, buying and selling shit securities, magically getting AAA (TREASURY-level) ratings from the ratings agencies, all while Alan Greenspan REFUSED to regulate any of it, even when CLTC Chairwoman Brooksley Born was BEGGING him to. It was a SCAM. It was a FARCE."
Wall Street Declares War on Warren
They played a tiny role.
Great, thanks.I didn't blame the CDSs alone for the crisis. They were a piece of the puzzle. As were the phantom AAA ratings, the shit CDOs and CMOs, Greenspan refusing to regulate derivatives, highly questionable behavior by the banks, and several other actions that didn't have to happen.AIG insured about $80 billion as I recall, a small part of the overall market. But it was more than large enough to take them down, make them go hat in hand to the Feds, and feed the panic and frenzy and exacerbate the entire mess significantly. So the figure could have been any number for what it caused. It wasn't about the number, it was about the timing, the panic, the momentum of the disaster, and the balance sheets of the "insured".Securitize them into hyper-complicated CMO's and even more hideous CDO's
Slicing crappy mortgages into pieces leaves you with crappy mortgages.
have them somehow magically blessed with Treasury-level ratings,
Yeah, the ratings agencies were awful!
watch companies like AIG take risk off of everyone's balance sheets by writing CDS's with zero (0) reserve requirements
How much did they insure? 1% of the mortgages? Less?
and occasionally team up with hedge fund managers like John Paulson to create steaming piles of garbage, sell them to clients, and then bet against them
You understand how synthetics work, right?
If you sell one, there is no second step needed to "bet against them", right?
What is your point?
.
AIG insured about $80 billion as I recall, a small part of the overall market. But it was more than large enough to take them down,
Yes, it took AIG down like Hillary at a 9/11 memorial.
But compared to the 19 million subprime loans on the books of Fannie and Freddie......almost unnoticeable.
What is your point?
Blaming AIG's credit default swaps on MBS for the crisis or the bubble is silly.
And most people don't have a clue about synthetic securities.
If you're going to represent something I'm saying, please use quotes instead of fabricating positions.
.
I didn't blame the CDSs alone for the crisis. They were a piece of the puzzle.
"Credit default swaps played a HUGE role because they allowed the people buying the shit securities to transfer risk to the insurance company, like AIG, which was its own disaster within a disaster. So the whole process could continue, buying and selling shit securities, magically getting AAA (TREASURY-level) ratings from the ratings agencies, all while Alan Greenspan REFUSED to regulate any of it, even when CLTC Chairwoman Brooksley Born was BEGGING him to. It was a SCAM. It was a FARCE."
Wall Street Declares War on Warren
They played a tiny role.
.
It was the Wild West, some truly lousy things were done, and the perpetrators made a fortune.PBS did a great series on this the Ascent of Money.
It was a systemic failure. People should have gone to jail.
Allowing companies to have a CDS on an equity that you do not own is like letting people take out life insurance policies on the 89 year old dude that lives down the block from you. That would obviously invite scamming and grifting into insurance markets.Great, thanks.I didn't blame the CDSs alone for the crisis. They were a piece of the puzzle. As were the phantom AAA ratings, the shit CDOs and CMOs, Greenspan refusing to regulate derivatives, highly questionable behavior by the banks, and several other actions that didn't have to happen.AIG insured about $80 billion as I recall, a small part of the overall market. But it was more than large enough to take them down, make them go hat in hand to the Feds, and feed the panic and frenzy and exacerbate the entire mess significantly. So the figure could have been any number for what it caused. It wasn't about the number, it was about the timing, the panic, the momentum of the disaster, and the balance sheets of the "insured".Securitize them into hyper-complicated CMO's and even more hideous CDO's
Slicing crappy mortgages into pieces leaves you with crappy mortgages.
have them somehow magically blessed with Treasury-level ratings,
Yeah, the ratings agencies were awful!
watch companies like AIG take risk off of everyone's balance sheets by writing CDS's with zero (0) reserve requirements
How much did they insure? 1% of the mortgages? Less?
and occasionally team up with hedge fund managers like John Paulson to create steaming piles of garbage, sell them to clients, and then bet against them
You understand how synthetics work, right?
If you sell one, there is no second step needed to "bet against them", right?
What is your point?
.
AIG insured about $80 billion as I recall, a small part of the overall market. But it was more than large enough to take them down,
Yes, it took AIG down like Hillary at a 9/11 memorial.
But compared to the 19 million subprime loans on the books of Fannie and Freddie......almost unnoticeable.
What is your point?
Blaming AIG's credit default swaps on MBS for the crisis or the bubble is silly.
And most people don't have a clue about synthetic securities.
If you're going to represent something I'm saying, please use quotes instead of fabricating positions.
.
I didn't blame the CDSs alone for the crisis. They were a piece of the puzzle.
"Credit default swaps played a HUGE role because they allowed the people buying the shit securities to transfer risk to the insurance company, like AIG, which was its own disaster within a disaster. So the whole process could continue, buying and selling shit securities, magically getting AAA (TREASURY-level) ratings from the ratings agencies, all while Alan Greenspan REFUSED to regulate any of it, even when CLTC Chairwoman Brooksley Born was BEGGING him to. It was a SCAM. It was a FARCE."
Wall Street Declares War on Warren
They played a tiny role.
.
The overall approach to the Meltdown from one end of the spectrum is to downplay anything that might suggest that more/better regulations should have been in place, and should be in place. The Greenspan approach, that markets are efficient and self-correcting. Greenspan, of course, himself admitted that he screwed up. To function properly, capitalism needs effective controls and regulation.Allowing companies to have a CDS on an equity that you do not own is like letting people take out life insurance policies on the 89 year old dude that lives down the block from you. That would obviously invite scamming and grifting into insurance markets.Great, thanks.I didn't blame the CDSs alone for the crisis. They were a piece of the puzzle. As were the phantom AAA ratings, the shit CDOs and CMOs, Greenspan refusing to regulate derivatives, highly questionable behavior by the banks, and several other actions that didn't have to happen.AIG insured about $80 billion as I recall, a small part of the overall market. But it was more than large enough to take them down, make them go hat in hand to the Feds, and feed the panic and frenzy and exacerbate the entire mess significantly. So the figure could have been any number for what it caused. It wasn't about the number, it was about the timing, the panic, the momentum of the disaster, and the balance sheets of the "insured".
What is your point?
.
AIG insured about $80 billion as I recall, a small part of the overall market. But it was more than large enough to take them down,
Yes, it took AIG down like Hillary at a 9/11 memorial.
But compared to the 19 million subprime loans on the books of Fannie and Freddie......almost unnoticeable.
What is your point?
Blaming AIG's credit default swaps on MBS for the crisis or the bubble is silly.
And most people don't have a clue about synthetic securities.
If you're going to represent something I'm saying, please use quotes instead of fabricating positions.
.
I didn't blame the CDSs alone for the crisis. They were a piece of the puzzle.
"Credit default swaps played a HUGE role because they allowed the people buying the shit securities to transfer risk to the insurance company, like AIG, which was its own disaster within a disaster. So the whole process could continue, buying and selling shit securities, magically getting AAA (TREASURY-level) ratings from the ratings agencies, all while Alan Greenspan REFUSED to regulate any of it, even when CLTC Chairwoman Brooksley Born was BEGGING him to. It was a SCAM. It was a FARCE."
Wall Street Declares War on Warren
They played a tiny role.
.
For every US dollar that was involved in CDOs, MBSs, etc, there was about $20 tied up in CDS's riding on their failure.
I don't get why Toddster thinks this is a 'tiny part' but he is laughably 2wrong about it, unless I am misunderstanding him.
Ideologues live in their own private Reality.The overall approach to the Meltdown from one end of the spectrum is to downplay anything that might suggest that more/better regulations should have been in place, and should be in place. The Greenspan approach, that markets are efficient and self-correcting. Greenspan, of course, himself admitted that he screwed up. To function properly, capitalism needs effective controls and regulation.
So they just deny much of what happened and blame it all on the Democrats, regardless of the massive amounts of information that are out there.
My own fault. I broke my rule about not discussing the Meltdown with some people.
.
Allowing companies to have a CDS on an equity that you do not own is like letting people take out life insurance policies on the 89 year old dude that lives down the block from you. That would obviously invite scamming and grifting into insurance markets.Great, thanks.I didn't blame the CDSs alone for the crisis. They were a piece of the puzzle. As were the phantom AAA ratings, the shit CDOs and CMOs, Greenspan refusing to regulate derivatives, highly questionable behavior by the banks, and several other actions that didn't have to happen.AIG insured about $80 billion as I recall, a small part of the overall market. But it was more than large enough to take them down, make them go hat in hand to the Feds, and feed the panic and frenzy and exacerbate the entire mess significantly. So the figure could have been any number for what it caused. It wasn't about the number, it was about the timing, the panic, the momentum of the disaster, and the balance sheets of the "insured".
What is your point?
.
AIG insured about $80 billion as I recall, a small part of the overall market. But it was more than large enough to take them down,
Yes, it took AIG down like Hillary at a 9/11 memorial.
But compared to the 19 million subprime loans on the books of Fannie and Freddie......almost unnoticeable.
What is your point?
Blaming AIG's credit default swaps on MBS for the crisis or the bubble is silly.
And most people don't have a clue about synthetic securities.
If you're going to represent something I'm saying, please use quotes instead of fabricating positions.
.
I didn't blame the CDSs alone for the crisis. They were a piece of the puzzle.
"Credit default swaps played a HUGE role because they allowed the people buying the shit securities to transfer risk to the insurance company, like AIG, which was its own disaster within a disaster. So the whole process could continue, buying and selling shit securities, magically getting AAA (TREASURY-level) ratings from the ratings agencies, all while Alan Greenspan REFUSED to regulate any of it, even when CLTC Chairwoman Brooksley Born was BEGGING him to. It was a SCAM. It was a FARCE."
Wall Street Declares War on Warren
They played a tiny role.
.
For every US dollar that was involved in CDOs, MBSs, etc, there was about $20 tied up in CDS's riding on their failure.
I don't get why Toddster thinks this is a 'tiny part' but he is laughably 2wrong about it, unless I am misunderstanding him.
The overall approach to the Meltdown from one end of the spectrum is to downplay anything that might suggest that more/better regulations should have been in place, and should be in place. The Greenspan approach, that markets are efficient and self-correcting. Greenspan, of course, himself admitted that he screwed up. To function properly, capitalism needs effective controls and regulation.Allowing companies to have a CDS on an equity that you do not own is like letting people take out life insurance policies on the 89 year old dude that lives down the block from you. That would obviously invite scamming and grifting into insurance markets.Great, thanks.I didn't blame the CDSs alone for the crisis. They were a piece of the puzzle. As were the phantom AAA ratings, the shit CDOs and CMOs, Greenspan refusing to regulate derivatives, highly questionable behavior by the banks, and several other actions that didn't have to happen.AIG insured about $80 billion as I recall, a small part of the overall market. But it was more than large enough to take them down,
Yes, it took AIG down like Hillary at a 9/11 memorial.
But compared to the 19 million subprime loans on the books of Fannie and Freddie......almost unnoticeable.
What is your point?
Blaming AIG's credit default swaps on MBS for the crisis or the bubble is silly.
And most people don't have a clue about synthetic securities.
If you're going to represent something I'm saying, please use quotes instead of fabricating positions.
.
I didn't blame the CDSs alone for the crisis. They were a piece of the puzzle.
"Credit default swaps played a HUGE role because they allowed the people buying the shit securities to transfer risk to the insurance company, like AIG, which was its own disaster within a disaster. So the whole process could continue, buying and selling shit securities, magically getting AAA (TREASURY-level) ratings from the ratings agencies, all while Alan Greenspan REFUSED to regulate any of it, even when CLTC Chairwoman Brooksley Born was BEGGING him to. It was a SCAM. It was a FARCE."
Wall Street Declares War on Warren
They played a tiny role.
.
For every US dollar that was involved in CDOs, MBSs, etc, there was about $20 tied up in CDS's riding on their failure.
I don't get why Toddster thinks this is a 'tiny part' but he is laughably 2wrong about it, unless I am misunderstanding him.
So they just deny much of what happened and blame it all on the Democrats, regardless of the massive amounts of information that are out there.
My own fault. I broke my rule about not discussing the Meltdown with some people.
.
The political fallout of the word "bailout" really clouded what was happening. We came damn close to seeing the whole thing come down. Maybe it's better that it went that way - if more people knew what was actually happening, there would have been serious panic.Finance not my domain, but do remember both Obama & Mc Cain running to Washington too see what was going on neither one was president at that time. many went down, many lost a lot. what ever was done had too be done in haste. what a horrible position for a newly elected president too be in.
Finance not my domain, but do remember both Obama & Mc Cain running to Washington too see what was going on neither one was president at that time. many went down, many lost a lot. what ever was done had too be done in haste. what a horrible position for a newly elected president too be in.
