Victory against illegal Immigration

[Agnapostate]

Ellis Island wasn't just a border. IT was a checkpoint where they did check you. There was a process. They recorded your arrival and made sure that you brought no diseases and the like. There is no such place on the southern boarder where Mexicans are going to pass any standards.

Then, it doesn't matter because what is good for the United States at one era is not necessarily always good. There was even a point at which we did say enough is enough and closed off Ellis Island to the traffic that it had once accepted.

Ellis Island functioned as a border checkpoint which existed because a border did. Less than 1% of immigrants who came to Ellis Island were turned away because of disease, but you are correct that "what is good for the United States at one era is not necessarily always good."

For instance, checking immigrants for disease is probably not necessary in the way it once was. There are vastly overhyped reports and outright lies made about immigrants' level of disease, such as when Lou Dobbs claimed that there were 7,000 cases of leprosy between 2002 and 2005, compared to 900 cases for forty years before that. His report alleged that the "epidemic" was caused by increased rates of immigration, and he claimed that "the invasion of illegal aliens is threatening the health of many Americans." The only problem with this little "report" is that there have been 7,000 cases of leprosy over the past thirty years since 2005, not the past three. Maybe Lou thought the "zero" didn't count? Unfortunately, that's only true when it comes to him...and the unfortunate fact is that other reports on an alleged epidemic of disease supposedly caused by illegal immigrants are largely of similar quality.

Important to note is that disease probably has far more to do with poor socioeconomic status than with immigration status, and criminalization of immigration leads to far more negative socioeconomic circumstances than amnesty and legalization would.

Unlike the illegal aliens, my forefathers immigrated in every sense of the word. The acclimated. They did more than just learn English.Hispanic illegal aliens, they don't have to a bloody thing. Because, people like you , agnanost, like to ..hmm, what's the word? Enable them in some kind of weird co-dependant crap I can't even begin to understand? So, tell me brother, why can't they immigrate legally? I gotta hear this. Why not?

According to this 1892 New York Times article on the disease threat posed by illegal immigration, there is a significant cholera threat posed by immigrants, specifically a group of German immigrants who brought the disease from Hamburg on a vessel called the Monrovia.

There is undoubtedly a Widespread feeling that immigration from countries where cholera is now raging ought to cease. Government officials who declare that the present quarantine regulations should result in Keeping the scourge out of the country acknowledge in the same breath that absolute prohibition would be the best possible means of Stopping the westward march of the disease...Every big American city has its colony of Russian Jews or Poles or Hungarians, and every good citizen knows that they make most undesirable residents. With the cholera killing people by the wholesale in the ports whence these creatures assemble to take passage to the United States, there is good ground for the present demand of absolute prohibition. (Emphasis mine.)

These people [immigrants] are offensive at best; under the present circumstances, they are a positive menace to the health of the country. Cholera, it must be remembered, originates in the homes of this human riff-raff.

Should we deport you, descended from "human riff-raff" as you are?

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

Agna , I give you a gold star for obfuscating. What in the hell are you talking about? Illegal aliens are not immigrants. It's that simple. really, no foolin. I take it, you don't know anything about this issue other than semantics, and as some dry topic of debate in your college rhetoric club. Nice try. You see, I also just happen to live with, and work with these poor people. Nothing, friend, trumps BS like yours than first hand experience. Stuff it up your cerebrum and try dealing with these folks fist hand, bubba. I recommend it.

 

[Agnapostate]

Agna , I give you a gold star for obfuscating. What in the hell are you talking about? Illegal aliens are not immigrants. It's that simple. really, no foolin. I take it, you don't know anything about this issue other than semantics, and as some dry topic of debate in your college rhetoric club. Nice try. You see, I also just happen to live with, and work with these poor people. Nothing, friend, trumps BS like yours than first hand experience. Stuff it up your cerebrum and try dealing with these folks fist hand, bubba. I recommend it.

Good job there. Where would we Mexicans who live in Los Angeles and are descended from immigrants both legal and illegal ever get experience with them?

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

We Mexicans?....Tells me were you are coming from. I respect people that respect me. You got that? Legal and illegal are not the same thing. I am just a dumbas gobacho. Well, think again. I guess we were meant to meet each other. Of course, Mexico was an artificial creation of an white colonialist culture just like America was. So here we are. It's depressing, when I get accused of stealing someone's homeland from them when they stole it from some one else. I never did a damned thing to a Mexican, but, well I can't say they have been so nice to me. In the last few years, they have killed people in front of behind my casa. I live in Colorado. Now, I know it's Spanish and all that, but, I know Illegal immigration is way out of hand and so do you, bubba. I don't care anymore, this is getting way to abstract. All they have to do is immigrate legally. But, Hispanics, they like to make excuses. isn't that right?

 

[Agnapostate]

We Mexicans?....Tells me were you are coming from. I respect people that respect me. You got that? Legal and illegal are not the same thing. I am just a dumbas gobacho. Well, think again. I guess we were meant to meet each other. Of course, Mexico was an artificial creation of an white colonialist culture just like America was. So here we are. It's depressing, when I get accused of stealing someone's homeland from them when they stole it from some one else. I never did a damned thing to a Mexican, but, well I can't say they have been so nice to me. In the last few years, they have killed people in front of behind my casa. I live in Colorado. Now, I know it's Spanish and all that, but, I know Illegal immigration is way out of hand and so do you, bubba. I don't care anymore, this is getting way to abstract. All they have to do is immigrate legally. But, Hispanics, they like to make excuses. isn't that right?

Inane ranting like this is the reason why I don't choose to reveal my race or ethnic group in these sorts of discussions, (I'm also an indigenous Mexican, so I'd be curious to know who my ancestors "stole" land from), because it's really rather irrelevant to rational discussions of immigration, which shouldn't rely on posters' personal characteristics. But you chose to claim that I had no "personal experience" with illegal immigration, so I merely chose to rebut that.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

I hate to say this, but you, boyo, are the king of inanity. Please, you don't like to parade your ethnicity around? But then, you do just the same, for fun or what? And, you never mention personal experience . Call it trivial, but some of us in the real world value it more than your brand of intellectual humbug. Of course, you are so smart and all, you knew that already. Gosh, that dead guy those Hispanic kids killed in front of my home, that was some sort of Shakespeare play or something? I don't think so. You irrelevant, moot point. It's simple. All they have to do is immigrate Legally, show some respect. That simple. You are making it too complicated. And too hard, at the same time. Why is that?

 

[Agnapostate]

I hate to say this, but you, boyo, are the king of inanity. Please, you don't like to parade your ethnicity around? But then, you do just the same, for fun or what? And, you never mention personal experience . Call it trivial, but some of us in the real world value it more than your brand of intellectual humbug. Of course, you are so smart and all, you knew that already. Gosh, that dead guy those Hispanic kids killed in front of my home, that was some sort of Shakespeare play or something? I don't think so. You irrelevant, moot point. It's simple. All they have to do is immigrate Legally, show some respect. That simple. You are making it too complicated. And too hard, at the same time. Why is that?

I did so because you explicitly mentioned my *experience.* In all the immigration debates I've had, I've never mentioned it unless someone chooses to claim that I have no "experience" with the issue, because I don't regard personal characteristics as being relevant to FACTS.

 

[Againsheila]

Good job there. Where would we Mexicans who live in Los Angeles and are descended from immigrants both legal and illegal ever get experience with them?

And there is the crux of the matter. "mexicans" who "live" in Los Angeles, even though you are decended from so called "immigrants" you still consider yourself to be Mexican, not even Mexican American. You are the type of "immigrant" that needs to be sent packing ASAP. Personally, I think it's already too late, there are too many of you here and America will fall because of that. Just one question, when America becomes as bad as Mexico, where do you go then?

When Alberto Lozano, an official representative of the Mexican government in San Diego said "This has been and will be Mexico again", he should have been shot right on the spot. It's clear our government has refused to do anything about it and it's clear the Mexicans believe they are retaking our southwest. What's really scarry is that they are succeeding and Americans have yet to do anything to stop it.


Funny, but when I was in college, and lived in Mexico for awhile, we saw the way the peasents were treated. There was talk of revolution breaking out while we were down there and every last one of us decided that if it did, we would join the peasents in their revolt. There I was 19 years old and ready to lay down my life for the Mexicans and now here they are taking over my country. Amazing how things change in 30 years, isn't it?

 

[Againsheila]

We Mexicans?....Tells me were you are coming from. I respect people that respect me. You got that? Legal and illegal are not the same thing. I am just a dumbas gobacho. Well, think again. I guess we were meant to meet each other. Of course, Mexico was an artificial creation of an white colonialist culture just like America was. So here we are. It's depressing, when I get accused of stealing someone's homeland from them when they stole it from some one else. I never did a damned thing to a Mexican, but, well I can't say they have been so nice to me. In the last few years, they have killed people in front of behind my casa. I live in Colorado. Now, I know it's Spanish and all that, but, I know Illegal immigration is way out of hand and so do you, bubba. I don't care anymore, this is getting way to abstract. All they have to do is immigrate legally. But, Hispanics, they like to make excuses. isn't that right?

We never should have taken our flag down after flying it over Mexico city. We should have just taken the whole country. Even Mexicans would be better off today if we had.

 

[Againsheila]

I did so because you explicitly mentioned my *experience.* In all the immigration debates I've had, I've never mentioned it unless someone chooses to claim that I have no "experience" with the issue, because I don't regard personal characteristics as being relevant to FACTS.

Here's a fact for you. My brother married a girl from Thailand. When he wanted to bring her here, suddenly they said he wasn't an American citizen and couldn't bring her here. My brother had served in the military during the Vietnam war. He was born on an American Air Force base in Japan to two
American citizens. My father was career Air Force. My brother had to become a naturalized citizen in order to bring his wife over here even though he'd already been voting for years AND had served in our military. It cost him thousands of dollars and more than a year of paperwork to get her here AND my parents had to sponsor her. My brother in law is from Canada. My parents had to sponsor him to come here. My cousin in law is from Germany, my aunt and uncle had to sponsor him. All of them went through medical checks and background checks.

When my father was stationed in England, my parents took in a couple of Hungarians fleeing Hungary when the communists took over. My parents tried for more than a year to get our friends into this country and they couldn't. Our friends had to live out their lives in Canada.

Now why do you think anyone has the right to come into this country illegally?

How is that fair to all the LEGAL immigrants, not to mention the Americans who had to go through so much to get them here?

How is that fair to the millions of immigrants that were denied entry to this country and didn't just break into our country anyway?

You don't like your country, FIX IT! Don't come and make ours the same cesspool you left.

Like I said, when I was 19, I was ready to lay down my life for the peasents in Mexico, those same people who are coming here in droves. I would have put my life on the line to get them the same rights in their country that we have here. Now, I've had Mexicans tell my friends they might as well leave this city because they are taking over. At this point, I'm glad there was no revolution when I was in Mexico 30 years ago...you people aren't worth it.

And when I say "you people" Agna, I mean you. A person who considers him/herself "mexican" inspite of coming from generations of hispanics in this country. You make me sick. I have friends who are decended from Mexicans and they are AMERICAN, not Mexican. Heck, some of them were down there with me in Mexico and they too were willing to put their lives on the line for your people, but make no mistake, they are Americans. You are not, you should go home.

What makes me the angriest about this is knowing that when the war comes, and it will, the poeple like my friends will suffer because they "look" and sound Mexican even though they are Americans and deserve all the rights that Americans have. For that, I blame people like Agna.

 

[Agnapostate]

And there is the crux of the matter. "mexicans" who "live" in Los Angeles, even though you are decended from so called "immigrants" you still consider yourself to be Mexican, not even Mexican American. You are the type of "immigrant" that needs to be sent packing ASAP. Personally, I think it's already too late, there are too many of you here and America will fall because of that. Just one question, when America becomes as bad as Mexico, where do you go then?

When Alberto Lozano, an official representative of the Mexican government in San Diego said "This has been and will be Mexico again", he should have been shot right on the spot. It's clear our government has refused to do anything about it and it's clear the Mexicans believe they are retaking our southwest. What's really scarry is that they are succeeding and Americans have yet to do anything to stop it.

Funny, but when I was in college, and lived in Mexico for awhile, we saw the way the peasents were treated. There was talk of revolution breaking out while we were down there and every last one of us decided that if it did, we would join the peasents in their revolt. There I was 19 years old and ready to lay down my life for the Mexicans and now here they are taking over my country. Amazing how things change in 30 years, isn't it?

You know, if you didn't spew your ignorant little stereotypes left and right instead of actually addressing the issue in a rational manner, I do believe you'd realize that, as an anarchist, I am as committed to the overthrow of the Mexican state as one can be, and the eventual military victory of the Zapatista Army of National Liberation.

I also never claimed to be an "immigrant." I was born at Cedars-Sinai. Not in Mexico, in case you wanted to check.

 

[Againsheila]

You know, if you didn't spew your ignorant little stereotypes left and right instead of actually addressing the issue in a rational manner, I do believe you'd realize that, as an anarchist, I am as committed to the overthrow of the Mexican state as one can be, and the eventual military victory of the Zapatista Army of National Liberation.

I also never claimed to be an "immigrant." I was born at Cedars-Sinai. Not in Mexico, in case you wanted to check.

No, you claim to be a Mexican born to Mexican immigrants both legal and illegal. I think it's clear where your loyalty lies....GO HOME!!!!!

 

[Agnapostate]

No, you claim to be a Mexican born to Mexican immigrants both legal and illegal. I think it's clear where your loyalty lies....GO HOME!!!!!

I don't believe in the existence of nation-states, or in the concept of racial, ethnic, or national pride, since being born to a specific race, ethnicity, or nation is not an accomplishment or choice.

I would advise you not to spew ignorant rhetoric.

 

[Againsheila]

I don't believe in the existence of nation-states, or in the concept of racial, ethnic, or national pride, since being born to a specific race, ethnicity, or nation is not an accomplishment or choice.

I would advise you not to spew ignorant rhetoric.

And yet you call yourself "Mexican". Hmmmmmm

 

[Agnapostate]

And yet you call yourself "Mexican". Hmmmmmm

Um...yeah. Because I'm of indigenous Mexican heritage, just as a person of Irish heritage might refer to him or herself as "Irish."

 

[sealybobo]

No, you claim to be a Mexican born to Mexican immigrants both legal and illegal. I think it's clear where your loyalty lies....GO HOME!!!!!

I'm Greek, and I have to be honest. First generation from anywhere and they are going to have a lot of loyalty to the country they left. Despite the reasons they left too. No matter if you come from Germany, Cuba, Russia, Greece, Iran, etc. But each generation loses that more and more. Like I'm first generation American born and I don't feel that strong a connection with Greece. Greece is mad at us because we are closer with Turkey, because of location. Do you think I care what Greece thinks? No way. I root for Greece in the Olympics and I love the old country, but I'm 100% American born and bred.

You are also more likely to see the other side of the argument if you come from somewhere else. You people with no ethnic background that voted for Bush should consider maybe you are all brainwashed with nationalism, because for the last 8 years, it's been unpatriotic to question our government and their war on terror. Since when has it become unpatriotic to question our government?

So maybe we would be smart to listen/discuss the reasons the rest of the world hates us. We might choose a different path if we know both sides.

If you haven't noticed, our government has only given us one side of the argument for the last 8 years and even the media has gone along. The so called LIBERAL media.

But as for illegal immigration. I want them to leave, but I don't blame the illegals. I blame the illegal employers. We must put the owners of these companies in jail for a year if they are caught with illegal help. That'll shut er down. You'll see a line of illegals going south if there is no one willing to pay them to stay. Has that ever dawned on you? The illegals won't go until the jobs run out. Why are people still employing illegals? This is a GOP thing if you ask me. They want to lower our wages by flooding the market and they want the cheap labor they get from hiring illegals.

The bleeding heart liberals can protest all they want to keep illegals here. They aren't the ones funding their stay.

 

[Agnapostate]

I generally blame trade liberalization and other forms of neoliberalism for mass migration across borders, which indicate inequality between the countries on each side.

 

[Againsheila]

I'm Greek, and I have to be honest. First generation from anywhere and they are going to have a lot of loyalty to the country they left. Despite the reasons they left too. No matter if you come from Germany, Cuba, Russia, Greece, Iran, etc. But each generation loses that more and more. Like I'm first generation American born and I don't feel that strong a connection with Greece. Greece is mad at us because we are closer with Turkey, because of location. Do you think I care what Greece thinks? No way. I root for Greece in the Olympics and I love the old country, but I'm 100% American born and bred.

You are also more likely to see the other side of the argument if you come from somewhere else. You people with no ethnic background that voted for Bush should consider maybe you are all brainwashed with nationalism, because for the last 8 years, it's been unpatriotic to question our government and their war on terror. Since when has it become unpatriotic to question our government?

So maybe we would be smart to listen/discuss the reasons the rest of the world hates us. We might choose a different path if we know both sides.

If you haven't noticed, our government has only given us one side of the argument for the last 8 years and even the media has gone along. The so called LIBERAL media.

But as for illegal immigration. I want them to leave, but I don't blame the illegals. I blame the illegal employers. We must put the owners of these companies in jail for a year if they are caught with illegal help. That'll shut er down. You'll see a line of illegals going south if there is no one willing to pay them to stay. Has that ever dawned on you? The illegals won't go until the jobs run out. Why are people still employing illegals? This is a GOP thing if you ask me. They want to lower our wages by flooding the market and they want the cheap labor they get from hiring illegals.

The bleeding heart liberals can protest all they want to keep illegals here. They aren't the ones funding their stay.

I blame the employers, I blame the government and I blame the illegals. When they tell your friend to leave the city he grew up in because they're taking over, it's kind of hard to feel sorry for them.

When you have people like Agna, touting that he is Mexican all the time defending illegals who come into this country, again, it's difficult to feel sorry for him. Agna didn't say "I'm Mexican" just to say his ancesters come from Mexico, no he made it clear, he's MEXICAN, ie, that's where his loyalties lie.

Then when I call him on it, all of a sudden he doesn't believe in borders. IOW, he believes in Mexico but no other country, especially when he's squatting in one that isn't Mexico.

When you have an offical of the Mexican government saying "This has been and will be Mexico again", it's clear that their official policy is to take over our country. Again, who can feel sorry for them? It's time to be preparing for the coming war. The only question is which war is coming first? Our own revolution, or the civil war against the invaders?

Yes, I know Americans have not made a positive impact around the world. I stood there in the Guadalajara Marketplace and watched as four very big Americans berated a small Mexican woman when they were trying to get her to sell them a sweater cheap. When I'd finally made up my mind to give them a piece of my mind, they saw me coming and fled. I apologized to the woman and tried to convince her that we aren't all like that. Funny thing, but after that day, I could get all kinds of bargains all over the marketplace.

On a train in Japan, a group of Americans sitting behind us left a mess, including an open coke can sitting on the tray. You knew as soon as the train started up that was going to fall and spill all over the place. My friend and I cleaned it up. We didn't want the Japanese talking about "those dirty Americans".

I have lots of friends in Japan. A few in Mexico and some in other countries around the world. Though I am kind of upset with Sunni. He promised me an invitation to his wedding in India and I haven't heard from him in over two years. I really wanted to see an Indian wedding too. I hear they party for days.

The truth is that America as a whole isn't liked around the world, and for good reasons, both political and for the way some Americans act when they are traveling. There is also the truth that Americans are loved around the world, for whatever reasons. I've had no problems with people from other countries or in other countries. It's all in the way you as an individual behave. As I tell the Japanese students, you are an ambassador for your country, for your people and for your family, whatever you do reflects on all those who come after you.

We've had a few families, very few, that hosted Japanese students that swear they would never host again. There's that ambassador thing....it reflects on those who come after you. Behave accordingly.

As I said, when I was 19 and living in Mexico, I was willing to lay down my life to get freedom for the peasants in Mexico. Today, I've done a 360. There are so many of them around here and they are so rude that I want them gone. They don't want to be Americans, they want to take our country from us and turn it into what they left. And not just hispanic illegals, but legal ones as well as Russians and Ukrainians, both legal and illegal. Heck, even the Koreans in this area are taking over areas for themselves and making no effort whatsoever to even learn our language even though they've been here for more than 15 years, some of them longer. I cry for my son because he's had a friend since 1st grade whose parents are Korean. Outside school they don't associate with us. I've tried. I volunteered to take her to the special olympics practice and to babysit her until they could pick her up. They let me, but they didn't ever return the favor or even make an effort to have my son at their house. This is the last year my son is in transition and I'm fairly certain that he will never see Anabell again after this year. It's sad considering that even though neither one of them talks, they are friends, you can tell with them holding hands, or even just sitting with each other.

In fact, when they were in track together, the coaches had to seperate them because they kept holding hands and walking together instead of running their races.

 

[Agnapostate]

When you have people like Agna, touting that he is Mexican all the time defending illegals who come into this country, again, it's difficult to feel sorry for him. Agna didn't say "I'm Mexican" just to say his ancesters come from Mexico, no he made it clear, he's MEXICAN, ie, that's where his loyalties lie.

Then when I call him on it, all of a sudden he doesn't believe in borders. IOW, he believes in Mexico but no other country, especially when he's squatting in one that isn't Mexico.

What utter nonsense. I am not in favor of inserting posters' personal characteristics, as they are used as a source of ad hominem attacks, and have no relations to the facts or a rational discussion of political issues. I did mention my ethnicity because the claim was made that I had no "experience" with illegal immigrants, and I was merely defending myself from a personal attack.

You also seem quite unfamiliar with my views regarding the Mexican government, such as the fact that I'm in favor of its overthrow by the Zapatista Army of National Liberation.

In what manner am I "squatting"? I was born in Los Angeles.

 

[editec]

They came "legally" in the same manner that current immigrants come "illegally." They decided to make the journey and they made it.

And they were vetted by immigration authorities, and those who were okay were send into an American which desperated needed their labors and their skills, and those who were found wanting were send packing back to from whence they came.

It is not 1900.

The United STates of America already takes in more legal immigrants THAN THE REST OF THE WORLD COMBINED.

That's right, read it again.

Anyone who suggests that America's immigration policy is ethnocentric or racist is missing the bigger picture.