Vice-President Obama?

[William Joyce]

It's funny. If he's the VP candidate, it's like slavery. Is she is, it's like sexism.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topN...?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

Not that I enjoy the way political correctness collapses in on itself, mind you.

 

[JimH52]

Interesting idea but I have Black friends who have emphatically said, "This country may be ready for a woman President or a black President but not for both a black and woman."

I don't know... You think they are?

 

[mattskramer]

It's funny. If he's the VP candidate, it's like slavery. Is she is, it's like sexism.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topN...?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

Not that I enjoy the way political correctness collapses in on itself, mind you.

There is a big difference and I can explain it on one word “Choice”. The slavery that American Blacks experienced years ago was not of their choosing. If Obama wants to be a “slave” to Clinton, then he has that choice, provided Clinton wants him as a vice president. Likewise, if Obama wants Clinton for a running mate, that will be up to him and her.

 

[Gunny]

There is a big difference and I can explain it on one word “Choice”. The slavery that American Blacks experienced years ago was not of their choosing. If Obama wants to be a “slave” to Clinton, then he has that choice, provided Clinton wants him as a vice president. Likewise, if Obama wants Clinton for a running mate, that will be up to him and her.

The slavery that no living blacks experienced years ago not of their choosing was not of anyone currently living's doing.

If you were to produce a former slave and an former slave owner, I would agree that the latter owes the former an apology, and compensation for services rendered.

Otherwise ... NOT.

 

[mattskramer]

The slavery that no living blacks experienced years ago not of their choosing was not of anyone currently living's doing.

If you were to produce a former slave and an former slave owner, I would agree that the latter owes the former an apology, and compensation for services rendered.

Otherwise ... NOT.

I’m not talking about that. I’m just making fun of the comparison between the idea of Obama consenting to being a vice president with that of his being a slavery.

 

[Gunny]

I’m not talking about that. I’m just making fun of the comparison between the idea of Obama consenting to being a vice president with that of his being a slavery.

I think you covered that rather nicely so I thought I'd start an argument about something legit, keying off what you said.

 

[Brian Crooks]

The slavery that no living blacks experienced years ago not of their choosing was not of anyone currently living's doing.

If you were to produce a former slave and an former slave owner, I would agree that the latter owes the former an apology, and compensation for services rendered.

Otherwise ... NOT.

On the whole, I kind of agree with you. I may be a bit biased because I'm Black and my father's side of the family comes directly from slavery in South Carolina. Here's how I feel, though. Slavery in the south still has continuing effects. The descendants of slave owners in many cases are still mega-rich off the money that their long-gone ancestors made buying and selling slaves as well as the products they generated. On the flip side, a lot of descendants of former slaves are still living in the busted-down hovels that their ancestors moved into after being "freed" while working as share croppers. Share cropping bankrupted generations and there are still some cases in which these descendants are still making payments to the descendants of slave owners. It's by no means their own fault that they're still dirt poor.

I know that's not what this thread is about, but I just had to jump in there.

 

[William Joyce]

Slavery in the south still has continuing effects. The descendants of slave owners in many cases are still mega-rich off the money that their long-gone ancestors made buying and selling slaves as well as the products they generated.

Can you name some?

 

[BrianH]

I think it's a cool topic to start up. It's bound to be very long though.

I wonder if the statement about slave owners being rich still is entirely accurate. I'm not downing anyone, but I'm just thinking. Southern farmers and slave-owners lost alot during the Civil War, there was no centralized "government" in the south, so the funding for the war involved alot of these rich plantation owners. Not to mention the war was waged mostly in the South. I do acknowledge that blacks did have a miserable time during and after the Civil War.

My personal opinion (may not be worth much) on why alot of blacks remain poor, is because of the lack of education. It doesn't seem that most blacks value a higher education. (I have black friends that I went to college with, and this is a topic that we discussed, so I'm not slamming anyones race: I'm an educator and this is what I've seen first hand)I don't think that alot of blacks, especially inner-city blacks, realize the opportunity and benefit there is to having an education after high school.They don't have the money to go, so they don't set their sites to go. If they only knew that the government gives young minorities numerous financial opportunities to attend, it may be different. If they could all start getting a formal college education, they would offset this endless cycle of poverty. Another big problem in my opinion is the hip-hop industry, it's made every young black man set his sites on becoming a professional rapper. That's a completely different thread though. I'm sure there are some cases where some black families are still feeling effects, but I'm not quite sold on the idea that it's that widespread of a problem.

 

[Paulie]

There is a big difference and I can explain it on one word “Choice”. The slavery that American Blacks experienced years ago was not of their choosing. If Obama wants to be a “slave” to Clinton, then he has that choice, provided Clinton wants him as a vice president. Likewise, if Obama wants Clinton for a running mate, that will be up to him and her.

I don't think he was literally saying it would be slavery, only pointing out how it would be perceived on the surface.

 

[William Joyce]

My personal opinion (may not be worth much) on why alot of blacks remain poor, is because of the lack of education. It doesn't seem that most blacks value a higher education. (I have black friends that I went to college with, and this is a topic that we discussed, so I'm not slamming anyones race: I'm an educator and this is what I've seen first hand)I don't think that alot of blacks, especially inner-city blacks, realize the opportunity and benefit there is to having an education after high school.They don't have the money to go, so they don't set their sites to go. If they only knew that the government gives young minorities numerous financial opportunities to attend, it may be different. If they could all start getting a formal college education, they would offset this endless cycle of poverty. Another big problem in my opinion is the hip-hop industry, it's made every young black man set his sites on becoming a professional rapper. That's a completely different thread though. I'm sure there are some cases where some black families are still feeling effects, but I'm not quite sold on the idea that it's that widespread of a problem.

Yes, although Asian boat people came here with less than blacks, and achieved success. I think the real reason blacks don't do well in our society is because they have lower IQ's, in general, than whites.

 

[jillian]

Yes, although Asian boat people came here with less than blacks, and achieved success. I think the real reason blacks don't do well in our society is because they have lower IQ's, in general, than whites.

Couldn't possibly have anything to do with blacks being the only group that came to this country unwillingly.

Couldn't possibly have anything to do with things like a history of jim crow and lynchings and sick people who killed them for looking at a white girl.

Couldn't possibly have anything to do with ghettos and being guided to "blacks only" housing and a history of segregation such that it took the national guard to force the racists to open their schools...

couldn't possibly have anything to do wih a bunch of crackers calling grown black men "boy"

Nah...why would those things have any negative societal effect whatsoever.

 

[Nevadamedic]

It's funny. If he's the VP candidate, it's like slavery. Is she is, it's like sexism.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topN...?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

Not that I enjoy the way political correctness collapses in on itself, mind you.

Well if he does get the Presidency I doubt a day will go by that someone doesn't hang nuses off the White House fence.

 

[Nevadamedic]

There is a big difference and I can explain it on one word “Choice”. The slavery that American Blacks experienced years ago was not of their choosing. If Obama wants to be a “slave” to Clinton, then he has that choice, provided Clinton wants him as a vice president. Likewise, if Obama wants Clinton for a running mate, that will be up to him and her.

She would be stupid not to take Obama Bin Laden because of the support he has.

 

[jillian]

She would be stupid not to take Obama Bin Laden because of the support he has.

I'm sorry, you need a program to keep up? OBL is somewhere in Pakistan.

Barak Obama is running for president. I understand where that might confuse someone of limited abilities.

 

[Paulie]

Couldn't possibly have anything to do with blacks being the only group that came to this country unwillingly.

Couldn't possibly have anything to do with things like a history of jim crow and lynchings and sick people who killed them for looking at a white girl.

Couldn't possibly have anything to do with ghettos and being guided to "blacks only" housing and a history of segregation such that it took the national guard to force the racists to open their schools...

couldn't possibly have anything to do wih a bunch of crackers calling grown black men "boy"

Nah...why would those things have any negative societal effect whatsoever.

Those things that happened 50 years ago, or LONGER, are affecting the abilities of an entire race TODAY?

And as far as coming here unwillingly, how many of them do you think would be willing to go back to an impoverished and disease-ridden country in Africa?

They may have originally come here unwillingly, and been persecuted during much of their time here, but there's no excuse for blaming 50+ year old issues for the problems of TODAY.

This can be said for ANY race, I'm not just limiting it to blacks. Whites have plenty to be complaining about from the past. Native Americans were probably treated WORSE than blacks, but they've made a pretty good life for themselves overall, with what they've been given.

The bottom line is that this is America, and the opportunities to succeed are right there for the taking. Sucking the government teet to skate through life in lieu of pursuing your OWN self-made life though, is not any way to find success.

 

[William Joyce]

Couldn't possibly have anything to do with blacks being the only group that came to this country unwillingly.

Couldn't possibly have anything to do with things like a history of jim crow and lynchings and sick people who killed them for looking at a white girl.

Couldn't possibly have anything to do with ghettos and being guided to "blacks only" housing and a history of segregation such that it took the national guard to force the racists to open their schools...

couldn't possibly have anything to do wih a bunch of crackers calling grown black men "boy"

Nah...why would those things have any negative societal effect whatsoever.

If what you're trying to say is that white people really don't actually (despite their denials) LIKE black people, I'd say you're right. Blacks are physically unappealing, and very often fit their stereotype as lazy, criminal, impulsive and violent. As I type this, I'm getting off the phone with an obviously black 'public servant' who wanted nothing more than to get rid of me with my pesky question about the county landfill. Meanwhile, the white person I talked to an hour earlier was cheerful, friendly and very helpful.

It's a pattern that repeats.

But then the question becomes, WHY don't whites like blacks? Is it whites' fault that blacks are the way they are?

No, it's not.

But if you want to see how blacks would do WITHOUT whites, take a look at Africa. Or Haiti.

It's even worse!

The inescapable truth is that blacks are a race of children, awkwardly and painfully trying to fit into the white (adult) world. No laws, browbeating, spending, etc. will change that.

 

[Paulie]

If what you're trying to say is that white people really don't actually (despite their denials) LIKE black people, I'd say you're right. Blacks are physically unappealing, and very often fit their stereotype as lazy, criminal, impulsive and violent. As I type this, I'm getting off the phone with an obviously black 'public servant' who wanted nothing more than to get rid of me with my pesky question about the county landfill. Meanwhile, the white person I talked to an hour earlier was cheerful, friendly and very helpful.

It's a pattern that repeats.

But then the question becomes, WHY don't whites like blacks? Is it whites' fault that blacks are the way they are?

No, it's not.

But if you want to see how blacks would do WITHOUT whites, take a look at Africa. Or Haiti.

It's even worse!

The inescapable truth is that blacks are a race of children, awkwardly and painfully trying to fit into the white (adult) world. No laws, browbeating, spending, etc. will change that.

I agree a bit, and also disagree. Blacks as a whole should not be generalized into your last statement.

As with anyone, there are the one's who ruin it for the others.

Could you be friends with a black person? ARE you friends with a black person?

 

[BrianH]

There's nothing wrong with blacks genetically or culturally. There is a large problem with alot (not all) of American blacks. It seems that even though the U.S. receieved one of the smallest percentages of blacks during the Atlantic Slave trade, the blacks here have the biggest problem about being black. You go to other nations , and blacks typically don't have problems with whites, and the other way around.(never been, just what I've read and heard).

The thought that whites are still supressing blacks is one of the most upsurd things I've ever heard. No teacher is keeping his/her hand over a black students head, pushing him down so that he/she can't succeed. I'm a teacher, and I've noticed that many of my black students do not value their education in comparison to the other races. Granted (like I've said before) their are black students that I teach that do value their education and I do have black friends that value theirs. But the percentage is small. They seemed to have gone to college and ended the seemingly endless cylce of black poverty.

Wake up and smell the world Jillian....while I do agree with some stuff that you say on other issues, this one is way off base. Do some non-biased research about how this country operates and you may change your view.

 

[William Joyce]

I agree a bit, and also disagree. Blacks as a whole should not be generalized into your last statement.

As with anyone, there are the one's who ruin it for the others.

Could you be friends with a black person? ARE you friends with a black person?

But the uncomfortable truth is that we CAN generalize about blacks... the inevitable fact of the occasional super-duper black person doesn't make the generalization any less true than Danny DeVito is "proof" that men are shorter than women.

And it is a genetically-based reality. Blacks are, evolutionarily, on a completely different track from white Europeans, Asians, and other races. Try reading Rushton's Race, Evolution and Behavior if you're interested.

Many aren't, and that's fine. Ain't a happy topic, that's for sure.

My problem is that whites are perpetually blamed for the shortcomings of blacks. That isn't fair because it isn't based on a true assessment of the facts. It's needless guilt by whites and immoral, opportunistic advantage-taking by blacks.