Venezuela's Chavez wins vote to allow re-election

[Tech_Esq]

With oil bouncing around $40, Hugh is going to be too busy with his hands tied at home since he is spending way more than he was bringing in, and that was when the price of oil was double from here.

I'm more worried about a re-run of the Latin American 1980s-style hyperinflation in Venezuela than anything.

They already have it. And soon, so will we. Venezuela currently has an inflation rate of 30+%.

Venezuelan inflation

 

[Agnapostate]

Post something close to reality and I'll give you what you seek. I give what I get.

I'm closer to reality than you know. I observe issues outside of the corporate bias that the mass media infuses them with.

"All legitimate anarchists are socialists" and Chavez ain't a dictator... in combination with the other crap like infanticide is not as bad as killing an adult...

You are truly either an attention seeking little twerp, like so many of the others in youth who paint little anarchy A's on their binders with the same black nail polish they use... or you are indeed a confused and warped individual.... and I personally don't know which is worse

Now we'll just sit back and wait for you to scream about someone not proving this or some extremist rant... when you continue to ignore reality as well as fact

10 words of advice

grow the fuck up and live in the real world

Don't make me laugh. Legitimate anarchists of the Bakunin/Kropotkin variety have always been libertarian socialists...it's merely Murray Rothbard and his ilk that dare to corrupt and befoul the term in the same way that they befouled the term "libertarian." You're simply completely unfamiliar with a major school of political thought, which doesn't surprise me.

Infanticide is not morally equivalent to killing an older person who has an awareness and conception of their own life and death. You have denied that this is true; you have not provided any legitimate reasoning or arguments to support your claims, whereas I have provided several to support mine.

 

[Agnapostate]

They already have it. And soon, so will we. Venezuela currently has an inflation rate of 30+%.

Venezuelan inflation

That says little as to the success of Venezuela's domestic economic policies and far more as to the problems the global markets are experiencing. A far more cogent analysis can be derived from measurements of increases in growth and decreases in unemployment after the 2003 oil nationalization.

 

[DiamondDave]

Post something close to reality and I'll give you what you seek. I give what I get.

I'm closer to reality than you know. I observe issues outside of the corporate bias that the mass media infuses them with.

"All legitimate anarchists are socialists" and Chavez ain't a dictator... in combination with the other crap like infanticide is not as bad as killing an adult...

You are truly either an attention seeking little twerp, like so many of the others in youth who paint little anarchy A's on their binders with the same black nail polish they use... or you are indeed a confused and warped individual.... and I personally don't know which is worse

Now we'll just sit back and wait for you to scream about someone not proving this or some extremist rant... when you continue to ignore reality as well as fact

10 words of advice

grow the fuck up and live in the real world

Don't make me laugh. Legitimate anarchists of the Bakunin/Kropotkin variety have always been libertarian socialists...it's merely Murray Rothbard and his ilk that dare to corrupt and befoul the term in the same way that they befouled the term "libertarian." You're simply completely unfamiliar with a major school of political thought, which doesn't surprise me.

Infanticide is not morally equivalent to killing an older person who has an awareness and conception of their own life and death. You have denied that this is true; you have not provided any legitimate reasoning or arguments to support your claims, whereas I have provided several to support mine.

No.. you gave several opinions.. and bad ones at that.. .a human at 2 is no more valuable than a human at 22, 32, 42, or 102.... you have provided no reasonable arguments of your acceptance of infanticide being more 'moral' than killing an adult... your warped view does not count as a reasonable argument

 

[editec]

The long history of the CIA screwing around with elections in South and Central America makes me more sympathetic to Chavez apologists than I might otherwise be, I'll readily admit that.

And the long long history of Americans being disinformed about the leaders that criticize America is far too well documented to ignore, too.

So really it all comes down to whose information do you believe?

In my case I find myself dubious of both those who laud Chavez as a heroic man of the people AND those who paint him as nothing but a tryrant.

 

[Tech_Esq]

They already have it. And soon, so will we. Venezuela currently has an inflation rate of 30+%.

Venezuelan inflation

That says little as to the success of Venezuela's domestic economic policies and far more as to the problems the global markets are experiencing. A far more cogent analysis can be derived from measurements of increases in growth and decreases in unemployment after the 2003 oil nationalization.

The CIA Fact book says the graphs you posted are bunk. What's your source for those. In fact they don't even demonstrate the fact I cited. In any case, I was responding to someone who expressed fear of hyper-inflation. I was merely backing his fear with reality. Unless you would care to argue that 30% inflation is not hyper inflation, would you?

 

[Tech_Esq]

The long history of the CIA screwing around with elections in South and Central America makes me more sympathetic to Chavez apologists than I might otherwise be, I'll readily admit that.

And the long long history of Americans being disinformed about the leaders that criticize America is far too well documented to ignore, too.

So really it all comes down to whose information do you believe?

In my case I find myself dubious of both those who laud Chavez as a heroic man of the people AND those who paint him as nothing but a tryrant.

When a person earns an appellation, I think it ungracious not to grant it to him.

 

[Diuretic]

Nice spray, pity about the lack of evidence

If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck ...

Pity that's the best you can do ... pretend the obvious doesn't exist to support your political bias.

I'm floored!

 

[Diuretic]

......
Saddam "won elections" too

Different duck.

 

[Agnapostate]

No.. you gave several opinions.. and bad ones at that.. .a human at 2 is no more valuable than a human at 22, 32, 42, or 102.... you have provided no reasonable arguments of your acceptance of infanticide being more 'moral' than killing an adult... your warped view does not count as a reasonable argument

I said nothing of any specific ages; in fact, I don't necessarily favor the ethical view that infants are of lesser moral value than older humans that are self-aware being a matter of legal policy, because no real "cutoff line" can be drawn in that case. I've already provided a reasonable argument for that ethical perspective; you simply lack the means to rebut it.

So really it all comes down to whose information do you believe?

In my case I find myself dubious of both those who laud Chavez as a heroic man of the people AND those who paint him as nothing but a tryrant.

The truth, as it often is, is somewhere in between. Claims of Chavez's dictatorship and tyranny are often colored by political and corporate interests of the mass media (including the punditry), in the U.S., and the CIA obviously has a record of aiding in the removal of democratically elected governments in the past for the purpose of political or financial interests. Conversely, Hugo Chavez Frias remains a politician and remains subjected to the self-interested desires of politicians, namely that those with power will have a natural interest in perpetuating it. I would count that as a strike against republicanism, but we must make do with what we have.

The CIA Fact book says the graphs you posted are bunk. What's your source for those. In fact they don't even demonstrate the fact I cited. In any case, I was responding to someone who expressed fear of hyper-inflation. I was merely backing his fear with reality. Unless you would care to argue that 30% inflation is not hyper inflation, would you?

Ah yes, the CIA fact book. The CIA, the grand upholder of democracy, the mighty vanguard of Mossadeq, Arbenz, and Allende. I did not deny the occurrence of inflation. (Though "hyperinflation" seems an exaggerated term when compared to Mugabe's Zimbabwe, for instance.) I merely commented that this problem was not a failure of Venezuela's domestic economic policies, since the country experienced significant growth increases since the 2003 oil nationalization.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Post something close to reality and I'll give you what you seek. I give what I get.

I'm closer to reality than you know. I observe issues outside of the corporate bias that the mass media infuses them with.

"All legitimate anarchists are socialists" and Chavez ain't a dictator... in combination with the other crap like infanticide is not as bad as killing an adult...

You are truly either an attention seeking little twerp, like so many of the others in youth who paint little anarchy A's on their binders with the same black nail polish they use... or you are indeed a confused and warped individual.... and I personally don't know which is worse

Now we'll just sit back and wait for you to scream about someone not proving this or some extremist rant... when you continue to ignore reality as well as fact

10 words of advice

grow the fuck up and live in the real world

Don't make me laugh. Legitimate anarchists of the Bakunin/Kropotkin variety have always been libertarian socialists...it's merely Murray Rothbard and his ilk that dare to corrupt and befoul the term in the same way that they befouled the term "libertarian." You're simply completely unfamiliar with a major school of political thought, which doesn't surprise me.

Infanticide is not morally equivalent to killing an older person who has an awareness and conception of their own life and death. You have denied that this is true; you have not provided any legitimate reasoning or arguments to support your claims, whereas I have provided several to support mine.

Agnes.....for christ sakes,here you go again,every place you post,people start calling you a moron....you know as much about Hugo as you know about the people you say you are part of......ZERO.....in the other thread you said the concept of "RECONQUISTA" was a myth,and here Hugo is not a dictator in disguise.....you are a piece of work....

 

[Tech_Esq]

The CIA Fact book says the graphs you posted are bunk. What's your source for those. In fact they don't even demonstrate the fact I cited. In any case, I was responding to someone who expressed fear of hyper-inflation. I was merely backing his fear with reality. Unless you would care to argue that 30% inflation is not hyper inflation, would you?

Ah yes, the CIA fact book. The CIA, the grand upholder of democracy, the mighty vanguard of Mossadeq, Arbenz, and Allende. I did not deny the occurrence of inflation. (Though "hyperinflation" seems an exaggerated term when compared to Mugabe's Zimbabwe, for instance.) I merely commented that this problem was not a failure of Venezuela's domestic economic policies, since the country experienced significant growth increases since the 2003 oil nationalization.

First, ad hominem attacks on a source for unrelated events in the past is not argument. Neither does it support your cause. Second, I didn't cite the CIA Fact book as the be all and end all of sources, but since I asked for your source, i thought it proper to provide mine. You might remember the technique sometime.

Have you ever lived somewhere where the inflation is 18%? If you had, you'd call 30% hyper-inflation. While it might not be as crazy as Zimbabwe and 1920's Germany, it's pretty damned bad. It's especially bad when you consider the daily effect of inflation that high. It robs people (poor people) of a huge portion of their meager salary every day. It means you can't know how your family will live from month to month. So, go ahead and tell us everything is great in Venezuela, but you're full of shit.

If everything is so great since oil nationalization, why can't Uncle Hugo keep the lights on? Also, I'm sure, since you are so informed about things Venezuelan, that Hugo built his economic plan on $60 oil and a lot of it. Hmmm....there might be a fly in the ointment with $40 oil and OPEC mandating a cutback rather than growth in sales. How's the next 5 year plan looking?

 

[Agnapostate]

Agnes.....for christ sakes,here you go again,every place you post,people start calling you a moron....you know as much about Hugo as you know about the people you say you are part of......ZERO.....in the other thread you said the concept of "RECONQUISTA" was a myth,and here Hugo is not a dictator in disguise.....you are a piece of work....

Don't be an idiot. You haven't provided any legitimate comment to this thread. You haven't done anything to rebut any arguments or points that I've made, just chirped one of your obnoxious little soundbytes.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Agnes.....for christ sakes,here you go again,every place you post,people start calling you a moron....you know as much about Hugo as you know about the people you say you are part of......ZERO.....in the other thread you said the concept of "RECONQUISTA" was a myth,and here Hugo is not a dictator in disguise.....you are a piece of work....

Don't be an idiot. You haven't provided any legitimate comment to this thread. You haven't done anything to rebut any arguments or points that I've made, just chirped one of your obnoxious little soundbytes.

kinda sounds like you Agnes......

 

[Agnapostate]

kinda sounds like you Agnes......