Venezuela: You Have Got to be Kidding

[Larkinn]

These links in no way justify Chavez's $3.5 billion purchase of new submarines from the new Soviets. Venezuela already has submarines. Columbia (much less Chile) is zero threat to Venezuela. Further, the Columbian "submarines" are more than 30 years old. Are they still in service? It is obvious that Chavez wants new weapons so he can threaten others in his region. Why is Chavez spending billions on new Russian weapons when there is no military threat, and there are so many poor right beneath his socialist nose? Consider who you are defending.

Perhaps because of a newfound and incrasing hostility between Caracas and the worlds only superpower which has a recent track record of hostile and pre-emptive wars based on shaky evidence.

I don't think he should be squandering money on the military over the poor either, but I find it a bit hypocritical for an American conservative to express sudden concern over Venezuala's poor. The slums are terrible, but there are many places which are significantly worse.

 

[onedomino]

Perhaps because of a newfound and incrasing hostility between Caracas and the worlds only superpower which has a recent track record of hostile and pre-emptive wars based on shaky evidence.

I don't think he should be squandering money on the military over the poor either, but I find it a bit hypocritical for an American conservative to express sudden concern over Venezuala's poor. The slums are terrible, but there are many places which are significantly worse.

Anytime we can preempt a genocidal mass murderer like Saddam we should act immediately, and without concern for the whining of the Left. If we must preemptively act to deny nuclear weapons to the terrorist Mullah regime in Tehran, then we should proceed. Back to the subject of the thread: you find conservative concern for the poor and the delivery of billions in new Russian weapons hypocritical? Regarding the advent of totalitarianism in Venezuela: Chavez socialism that substitutes billions in imported Russian weapons over improvement in the condition of the desperately poor is the pinnacle of hypocrisy. It is the prelude to political and potential military aggression. Chavez is squandering the wealth of his nation on weapons to expand his regional military power.

 

[DeadCanDance]

It's very simple: Venezuela's current government is, by most US politicians and policy analysts, viewed as hostile to the United States and its interests. Any action by the Venezeulan government to bolster there arsenal will undoubtedly be viewed by those who place our interests at the forefront as a worrisome and potentially hostile action, especially given who they're purchasing these submarines from.

Now, if the Venezuela had any sense they'd realize that opposition to the United States is incredibly foolhardy given the state of the county's everything. If Chavez had any brains he'd forsake his delusions of dominating the South American continent, stop turning his country into a totalitarian state, abolish the army a la Costa Rica, and move to a system of government and policy similar to Chile, which is (wisely) using the profits from its not dissimlar export boom to prepare for the future and modernize the country, not on foolhardy temporary subsidies that will dry up as soon as world markets take a downturn. There's a reason Chile has an economy growing at nearly 8% a year, has the highest GDP per capita of any South American country, a saving rate of 22% thanks to a privatised pension plan our country could REALLY learn from, and where only 16% of the population falls below the poverty line.

Let's make a distinction:

Chavez is hostile towards the Bush adminstation and its polcies. He's not hostile towards the american people.

In a way, Bush caused this. The Bush admin cheered on (and was suspected of helping) a military coup in Venezuela to overthrow a democratically elected government headed by Chavez. I'd be pissed too, if I was an elected president, and somebody was at best, standing on the sidelines and cheering on a coup against me, or at worst actively helping the coup. Recall, Chavez was president in the 1990s, and he was never considered an "enemy" of america. That's a Bush invention. Chavez hates Bush. And yeah, Chavez is kicking out a few oil companies -- so what? That's a risk every business on the planet takes. It's business - it has no larger meaning, like an "impending invasion of america". That's sheer paranoia.

I honestly don't give a crap about whether venezuela domestically , has socialism, capitalism, or some hybrid in between. Its not my country.

And I'm certainly not going to wet my pants and wring my hands in fear if venezeula buys a few outdated soviet submarines. Why should that alarm me? Virtually every sea-going nation in the western hemisphere has a navy with submarine warfare capability. Its a standard part of national defense for any large developing nation. Its just silly to make a big deal out of that.

 

[Diuretic]

Australia is neither anti American or socialist enough to get weapons deals from Chavez. Besides, for obvious geopolitical reasons, Australia would not sell submarines to Chavez.

Since he hasn't asked us we'll never know

 

[Gunny]

These links in no way justify Chavez's $3.5 billion purchase of new submarines from the new Soviets. Venezuela already has submarines. Columbia (much less Chile) is zero threat to Venezuela. Further, the Columbian "submarines" are more than 30 years old. Are they still in service? It is obvious that Chavez wants new weapons so he can threaten others in his region. Why is Chavez spending billions on new Russian weapons when there is no military threat, and there are so many poor right beneath his socialist nose? Consider who you are defending.

No, they don't justify anything. They deflect from the actual topic into a relativist, sideways-assed argument, then call you dishonest for not addressing it. The norm for that particular poster.

 

[DeadCanDance]

These links in no way justify Chavez's $3.5 billion purchase of new submarines from the new Soviets. Venezuela already has submarines. Columbia (much less Chile) is zero threat to Venezuela. Further, the Columbian "submarines" are more than 30 years old. Are they still in service? It is obvious that Chavez wants new weapons so he can threaten others in his region. Why is Chavez spending billions on new Russian weapons when there is no military threat, and there are so many poor right beneath his socialist nose?

Consider who you are defending.

I'm not defending anyone. I'm stating facts. Sea faring nations have navys with submarines.

Consider that you posted this thead in the most hysterical tones: "OMG! Venezuela is buying submarines!", but it seems patently obvious you had no clue that all sea-going south american countries have navies with submarine warfare capability.

Please calm down and stop looking for monsters under the bed.

You are not in a position to say whether or not venezeual needs submarines. They have competitors on the continent, and every nation builds up its national defense for contingency purposes. Please stop pretending that some nation buying a few submarines is something to start screaming about and sensationalizing.

 

[Gunny]

I'm not defending anyone. I'm stating facts. Sea faring nations have navys with submarines.

Consider that you posted this thead in the most hysterical tones: "OMG! Venezuela is buying submarines!", but it seems patently obvious you had no clue that all sea-going south american countries have navies with submarine warfare capability.

Please calm down and stop looking for monsters under the bed.

You are not in a position to say whether or not venezeual needs submarines. They have competitors on the continent, and every nation builds up its national defense for contingency purposes. Please stop pretending that some nation buying a few submarines is something to start screaming about and sensationalizing.

You aren't in a position to say whether or not Venezuela needs submarines, and whether or not other South American countries have them is irrelevant to the fact that Venezuela is buying them now.

Perhaps you should "calm down" and pull your head out of the sand and try observing the reality around you?

Chavez is an anti-American piece of shit. OF COURSE that would make him obtaining weapons that have the possibility of impacting the US a topic for discussion.

Kind of obvious though what you're all about, siding with a piece of garbage like Chavez just to be contrary to who you assume is a conservative.

 

[DeadCanDance]

You aren't in a position to say whether or not Venezuela needs submarines, and whether or not other South American countries have them is irrelevant to the fact that Venezuela is buying them now.

Perhaps you should "calm down" and pull your head out of the sand and try observing the reality around you?

Chavez is an anti-American piece of shit. OF COURSE that would make him obtaining weapons that have the possibility of impacting the US a topic for discussion.

Kind of obvious though what you're all about, siding with a piece of garbage like Chavez just to be contrary to who you assume is a conservative.

Chavez is an anti-American piece of shit.

Wrong. He's anti-Bush. He's Not anti-american. I challenge you to name one american killed by the chavez government, or by any venezuelan.

Sorry to tell you this: but 90% of the planet is anti-bush, as well as 70% of americans. A few million republicans aren't going to convince me that chavez is some kind of military threat to the U.S. Newsflash: I didn't fall for that bullshit, when Bush fans told me Iraq was a threat. I"m not falling for it now.

I'm not defending chavez, or anyone . I'm stating facts. I could care less who venezuelans elect as their president.

Neither you, nor I, nor anyone on this board is in a position to say what other countries need for their navies. I couldn't care less. Its not my country, and its not a threat to me