Venezuela: You Have Got to be Kidding

[DeadCanDance]

Chilean Navy Submarines:

SCORPENE FOR THE CHILEAN NAVY
The 1,500t Scorpene built for the Chilean Navy has a length of 66.4m. The two vessels are powered by four diesel generators providing more than 2,500kW using GM synchronous motors with permanent magnets

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/scorpene/

Colombian Navy Submarines

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/colombia/colombia_navy.htm


Now that I've answered your question, can you answer one of mine please?

Why aren't you outraged that other South American countries purchase submarines for their Navys?

Peru is a much poorer country than Venezuela, yet their country has submarines in their navy:

"As of 2007, the Peruvian Navy comprises 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 8 frigates, 6 corvettes, 6 submarines, 4 tank landing ships and 4 replenishment oilers."

http://www.answers.com/topic/navy-of-peru

 

[Annie]

Peru is a much poorer country than Venezuela, yet their country has submarines in their navy:

"As of 2007, the Peruvian Navy comprises 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 8 frigates, 6 corvettes, 6 submarines, 4 tank landing ships and 4 replenishment oilers."

http://www.answers.com/topic/navy-of-peru

Uncle. You win. Let all come and join the low depths party. Better yet, let them gain nukes and all will be on equal footing. Is that more what you were hoping for?

 

[DeadCanDance]

Uncle. You win. Let all come and join the low depths party. Better yet, let them gain nukes and all will be on equal footing. Is that more what you were hoping for?

This is just silly. A total strawman. Why did you just pull this out of your @ss?

Every sea-going nation on the planet is going to spend money on a navy for national defense. And a submarine warfare capability is an essential element to any navy for at least the last half decade or more.

Where is this faux shock and phony outrage coming from, over the Venezeulan Navy having submarines, just like all their other neighbors on the continent?

 

[Annie]

This is just silly. A total strawman. Why did you just pull this out of your @ss?

Every sea-going nation on the planet is going to spend money on a navy for national defense. And a submarine warfare capability is an essential element to any navy for at least the last half decade or more.

Where is this faux shock and phony outrage coming from, over the Venezeulan Navy having submarines, just like all their other neighbors on the continent?

I was speaking globally and equivalency. I thought that is what your were speaking to?

 

[Larkinn]

Uncle. You win. Let all come and join the low depths party. Better yet, let them gain nukes and all will be on equal footing. Is that more what you were hoping for?

Let? They are a sovreign country, they can do what they want. You don't have the authority to "let" them do anything.

 

[Annie]

Let? They are a sovreign country, they can do what they want. You don't have the authority to "let" them do anything.

Right you are.

 

[Diuretic]

Bugger, he could have bought his subs from us, we need the money

 

[Mr.Conley]

Have some links?

Kathianne, I can guarantee that at least Chile and Brazil have navies with subs. The other listed countries I can't say anything about, but I'd certainly be surprised if they didn't.

 

[Mr.Conley]

This is just silly. A total strawman. Why did you just pull this out of your @ss?

Every sea-going nation on the planet is going to spend money on a navy for national defense. And a submarine warfare capability is an essential element to any navy for at least the last half decade or more.

Where is this faux shock and phony outrage coming from, over the Venezeulan Navy having submarines, just like all their other neighbors on the continent?

It's very simple: Venezuela's current government is, by most US politicians and policy analysts, viewed as hostile to the United States and its interests. Any action by the Venezeulan government to bolster there arsenal will undoubtedly be viewed by those who place our interests at the forefront as a worrisome and potentially hostile action, especially given who they're purchasing these submarines from.

Now, if the Venezuela had any sense they'd realize that opposition to the United States is incredibly foolhardy given the state of the county's everything. If Chavez had any brains he'd forsake his delusions of dominating the South American continent, stop turning his country into a totalitarian state, abolish the army a la Costa Rica, and move to a system of government and policy similar to Chile, which is (wisely) using the profits from its not dissimlar export boom to prepare for the future and modernize the country, not on foolhardy temporary subsidies that will dry up as soon as world markets take a downturn. There's a reason Chile has an economy growing at nearly 8% a year, has the highest GDP per capita of any South American country, a saving rate of 22% thanks to a privatised pension plan our country could REALLY learn from, and where only 16% of the population falls below the poverty line.

 

[dilloduck]

The arms industry and used weapons salesmen would try to sell Bolivia to buy subs if they could.

 

[Paulie]

How dare a responsible leader take food out of the mouths of the poor, to buy offensive military hardware.

If only you realized how ironic that statement is.

 

[manu1959]

The arms industry and used weapons salesmen would try to sell Bolivia to buy subs if they could.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivian_Navy

just need to dredge the river first

 

[manu1959]

If only you realized how ironic that statement is.

yes there are no programs in the US to care for the poor....they were all cancelled when bush took office.....but that will all change in 08 ..... the dems will feed, house and clothe every man woman and child in the US ....jobs, education and health care for all...free of charge....except of course for those that already have it ... in which case it will be taken away and given to those that don't .....

 

[Annie]

yes there are no programs in the US to care for the poor....they were all cancelled when bush took office.....but that will all change in 08 ..... the dems will feed, house and clothe every man woman and child in the US ....jobs, education and health care for all...free of charge....except of course for those that already have it ... in which case it will be taken away and given to those that don't .....

Like the homeless that disappear under Democratic presidents but reemerge en masse with Republicans.

 

[manu1959]

Like the homeless that disappear under Democratic presidents but reemerge en masse with Republicans.

well that is because there are no jobs under republicans...the rich get richer and the poor get poorer....have you not been paying attention

 

[Annie]

well that is because there are no jobs under republicans...the rich get richer and the poor get poorer....have you not been paying attention

Nope, just been drinking. Gotta love gang ups.

 

[Larkinn]

Like the homeless that disappear under Democratic presidents but reemerge en masse with Republicans.

Now you put this strawman in extreme terms to make it seem extreme, which it is. But if you couched it in more reasonable terms, such as saying that homelessness increased dramatically more under Bush than under Clinton, you would be correct.


http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/978

In the last three years, the number of people requesting emergency housing and food assistance has increased drastically, according to surveys of 25 major cities conducted annually by the US Conference of Mayors.

In 2003, the survey found that requests for emergency housing increased by thirteen percent on average, following a nineteen percent increase in 2002, a thirteen percent increase in 2001, and a fifteen percent increase in 2000. In 1997, by comparison, the increase was just 3 percent.

 

[onedomino]

Well, I'm sorry you embarrased yourself on this thread.

Every major sea-faring nation in south america has submarines it their navys.

Why did you single out Venezuela? Partisan hackery?

It is your Leftism, and defense of Chavez weapons purchases, that is embarrassing. No nation in recent times in South America has purchased any significant quantity of new weapons other than the one run by the socialist totalitarian Chavez, the man who shut down opposition media outlets. I have singled out Chavez because of new weapons purchases, including Russian fighter planes and submarines. I thought Leftists were supposed to care about the poor. Caracas squatter slums have some of the most desperate living conditions in the world. Meanwhile, the alleged socialist man of the poor is off buying billions worth of Russian arms. It is nonsense to justify Chavez's weapons purchases as a defense against any other South American country. BTW, get a dictionary, or learn how to spell.

 

[onedomino]

Chilean Navy Submarines:

SCORPENE FOR THE CHILEAN NAVY
The 1,500t Scorpene built for the Chilean Navy has a length of 66.4m. The two vessels are powered by four diesel generators providing more than 2,500kW using GM synchronous motors with permanent magnets

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/scorpene/

Colombian Navy Submarines

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/colombia/colombia_navy.htm




Now that I've answered your question, can you answer one of mine please?


Why aren't you outraged that other South American countries purchase submarines for their Navys?

These links in no way justify Chavez's $3.5 billion purchase of new submarines from the new Soviets. Venezuela already has submarines. Columbia (much less Chile) is zero threat to Venezuela. Further, the Columbian "submarines" are more than 30 years old. Are they still in service? It is obvious that Chavez wants new weapons so he can threaten others in his region. Why is Chavez spending billions on new Russian weapons when there is no military threat, and there are so many poor right beneath his socialist nose? Consider who you are defending.

 

[onedomino]

Bugger, he could have bought his subs from us, we need the money

Australia is neither anti American or socialist enough to get weapons deals from Chavez. Besides, for obvious geopolitical reasons, Australia would not sell submarines to Chavez.