Vatican Calls For An End to Capitalism

[expat_panama]

Adding a spiritual dimension to the incoherent war on capitalism rapidly spreading across Europe and America, the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, an official Vatican body, last week published a sweeping scholarly tome calling for the end of capitalism, individualism, free markets, and national sovereignty. Sound far-fetched? Consider what the proposal would entail.

Under the Council's proposal, the fiscal and monetary authorities of all nations of the world, as well as that of all financial institutions both public and private, are to be gradually subjugated under a supranational public authority with universal jurisdiction. This is to be financed by a global central bank empowered to collect a tax on all financial transactions. This bank would regulate all monetary exchange while also having the authority to promote global development and sustainability according to the principles of social justice and solidarity. It could also contribute to the creation of a world reserve fund to support the economies of countries hit by crisis.

[snip]

But perhaps it is unfair to criticize the messenger and, instead, analysts should focus on a careful deconstruction of the message itself. Stripping out the intellectual semantic packaging, the essential concept of the Vatican's proposal is that the means of production are to remain in private hands but the objectives to which that production is put, the capital allocated to enable it, and the wealth that is created from it are to be directed by a central authority.

In truth, this is not communism. It is fascism.

[snip]

While it is certainly not my intention to embarrass my many Catholic friends, they may want to use whatever means the laity has at its disposal to communicate with the ecclesiastical authorities, suggesting that they reexamine this piece of work. Either that or let it quietly disappear into the obscurity it so richly deserves.

Excerpt. Read more at RealClearMarkets

 

[editec]

Basically they are calling for a new and world wide imposed SOCIAL CONTRACT.


WEll, that is going to happen in this century assuming we don't destroy civilization and the planet getting to that point.

But that change in social contract is inevitable.

Why?
Not for any moral reasons, or political reasons either.

The social contract is going to change because it is going to have to change.

AS our technology is radically changing everything about the way the world works, the sopcial systems we have depended on to give us the world we have today, will cease working in any kind of efficient way.


I don't predict any kind of UTOPIPA, from those changes, but assuming that our technology doesn't turn around and bite us on the ass?

Something approaching a UTOPIA or DIStopia are certainly possible.

We might EVER be on approaching that event horizon where human beings change the human genome in ways that we can bearly even imagine.

If we take charge of the human genome (and I suspect we will) then attempting to predict how THAT will play out is pure folly.

Brave New World?

Yeah it could be like that for a while, but I doubt it.

That book imposed the value system of the mid 20th century on the story line where mankind controlled the genome.

But the value system of the past is not going to be the value system of the brave new world our children are going to live in.

Interesting, terrifying, amazingly hopeful times are ahead, folks.

 

[Dragon]

The title of this thread is absurd hyperbole. The Pope was calling for a reining-in of capitalist excess and a tempering of greed so that the economy becomes humane. To call this "the end of capitalism" is ridiculous.

 

[Toro]

Adding a spiritual dimension to the incoherent war on capitalism rapidly spreading across Europe and America, the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, an official Vatican body, last week published a sweeping scholarly tome calling for the end of capitalism, individualism, free markets, and national sovereignty. Sound far-fetched? Consider what the proposal would entail.

Under the Council's proposal, the fiscal and monetary authorities of all nations of the world, as well as that of all financial institutions both public and private, are to be gradually subjugated under a supranational public authority with universal jurisdiction. This is to be financed by a global central bank empowered to collect a tax on all financial transactions. This bank would regulate all monetary exchange while also having the authority to promote global development and sustainability according to the principles of social justice and solidarity. It could also contribute to the creation of a world reserve fund to support the economies of countries hit by crisis.

[snip]

But perhaps it is unfair to criticize the messenger and, instead, analysts should focus on a careful deconstruction of the message itself. Stripping out the intellectual semantic packaging, the essential concept of the Vatican's proposal is that the means of production are to remain in private hands but the objectives to which that production is put, the capital allocated to enable it, and the wealth that is created from it are to be directed by a central authority.

In truth, this is not communism. It is fascism.

[snip]

While it is certainly not my intention to embarrass my many Catholic friends, they may want to use whatever means the laity has at its disposal to communicate with the ecclesiastical authorities, suggesting that they reexamine this piece of work. Either that or let it quietly disappear into the obscurity it so richly deserves.

Excerpt. Read more at RealClearMarkets

That's so stupid, I find it hard to believe it's true.

I hate when churches start talking about economics.

 

[expat_panama]

...That's so stupid, I find it hard to believe it's true. I hate when churches start talking about economics.

Politics, religion, and making money --three things polite people don't talk about at family gatherings. They're also the three most important fields of human endeavor. Each group thinks it's the most important and is always trying to control the other two.

Government, church, and business. It's up to us to listen to all three while keeping them all on a short leash.

 

[Dragon]

Government, church, and business. It's up to us to listen to all three while keeping them all on a short leash.

You do realize that except for government, there is nothing that can keep business "on a short leash"? And if you believe government should do that, how is your view any different from that of the Pope?

 

[Skull Pilot]

So basically the church is literally calling for all people to be sheep.

Line up in the pen and let your shepherds provide for all your needs that is until they slaughter you for Easter dinner.

 

[expat_panama]

The title of this thread is absurd hyperbole. The Pope was calling for a reining-in of capitalist excess and a tempering of greed so that the economy becomes humane. To call this "the end of capitalism" is ridiculous.

Imagine that business leaders called for an end of religious excesses and a tempering of pompous self-righteousness so that religion becomes more realistic.

The headline would be "CEOs call for an end of God".

 

[expat_panama]

...You do realize that except for government, there is nothing that can keep business "on a short leash"?...

Most people are good. They obey laws and they try their best to do right. These are the people I work with in the business community and it's a characteristic confirmed by research. I can accept you have a view that's based on your experiences where you and yours handle money like cut-throats, but a broader look tells us that fortunately your attitude is the exception.

 

[Dragon]

Imagine that business leaders called for an end of religious excesses and a tempering of pompous self-righteousness so that religion becomes more realistic.

The headline would be "CEOs call for an end of God".

And that would also be absurd hyperbole. And I would say as much.

EDIT: I would also agree with the business leaders, just as in this case I agree with the Pope.

 

[Toro]

Government, church, and business. It's up to us to listen to all three while keeping them all on a short leash.

You do realize that except for government, there is nothing that can keep business "on a short leash"? And if you believe government should do that, how is your view any different from that of the Pope?

Culture plays a big part as well.

 

[Dragon]

...You do realize that except for government, there is nothing that can keep business "on a short leash"?...

Most people are good. They obey laws and they try their best to do right. These are the people I work with in the business community and it's a characteristic confirmed by research. I can accept you have a view that's based on your experiences where you and yours handle money like cut-throats, but a broader look tells us that fortunately your attitude is the exception.

You do realize that that was a complete non-response to what you quoted, right?

 

[expat_panama]

Government, church, and business. It's up to us to listen to all three while keeping them all on a short leash.

Culture plays a big part as well.

True, though we hear from religious leaders, government spokesmen, and business experts all the time. Cultural announcements don't come out that often...

 

[expat_panama]

...You do realize that except for government, there is nothing that can keep business "on a short leash"?...

Most people are good. They obey laws and they try their best to do right. These are the people I work with in the business community and it's a characteristic confirmed by research. I can accept you have a view that's based on your experiences where you and yours handle money like cut-throats, but a broader look tells us that fortunately your attitude is the exception.

You do realize that that was a complete non-response to what you quoted, right?

Huh. I'd have thought the point was intuitive. Must have been my cheap sniping at your attitude problem. Let's get together here.

Americans are both exceptionally religious people and unusually able to to create immense wealth. While these two abilities complement each other (the rich can be more philanthropic and the sober can earn more), Americans don't confuse the goals. They make money because they enjoy feeding themselves and their families, and they obey the Ten Commandments because it's the right thing to do --not 'cuase of what's in it for them. Both the church and the state have enormous power over how we run our businesses --"our" meaning me and most business leaders.

 

[Dragon]

No, it wasn't the cheap sniping, although it was amusing to be called a cutthroat capitalist.

You stated that you believed business should be kept on a tight leash. So, in essence, did the Pope. How are you disagreeing with him? What exactly do you mean by "a tight leash"?

And please leave religion out of your answer; that only muddies the waters.

 

[Douger]

Douger calls for an end to Catholicism.

 

[expat_panama]

...I would also agree with the business leaders, just as in this case I agree with the Pope.

I respect the Pope's values and most of what he says, just as I listen to and respect most business leaders. This proposal leaves a lot to be desired though.

 

[expat_panama]

...You stated that you believed business should be kept on a tight leash. So, in essence, did the Pope. How are you disagreeing with him? What exactly do you mean by "a tight leash"? And please leave religion out of your answer; that only muddies the waters.

I'd be happy to if I could figure out how to talk about the Pope's proper role with business and still "leave religion out" of the answer.

 

[Dragon]

I'd be happy to if I could figure out how to talk about the Pope's proper role with business and still "leave religion out" of the answer.

All I'm asking for at the moment is a clarification of your statement that we need to keep business "on a tight leash." That really isn't a religious subject.

However, let me ask another question perhaps more directly pertinent to this thread. Do you believe that moral considerations properly apply to business conduct? Specifically, do you believe that it's reasonable to expect business to serve any social purpose other than the personal enrichment of the business owners? The Pope is, for Catholics, a moral authority (I'm not a Catholic so he isn't one for me) and he was speaking from a moral perspective.

 

[expat_panama]

...All I'm asking for at the moment is a clarification of your statement that we need to keep business "on a tight leash." That really isn't a religious subject...

My bet is most people would disagree with that.

...Do you believe that moral considerations properly apply to business conduct? Specifically, do you believe that it's reasonable to expect business to serve any social purpose other than the personal enrichment of the business owners? The Pope is, for Catholics, a moral authority (I'm not a Catholic so he isn't one for me) and he was speaking from a moral perspective.

The overwhelming majority of human beings have always confined their behavior with posessions in accordance with both moral as well as legal limits, and specifically virtually all business have published codes of conduct, engage in philanthropy, and form administrative decisions that pass the "it's-the-right-thing-to-do" test. I see this as a good thing.