Vaccines and Autism - what do you think?

[wolfparade]

So that landmark study linking measles/mumps/rubella and autism is apparently coming under fire. I can't link in here because I'm a new member! But basically the Times of London reported that the data in the study was falsified, which could change a lot for the way we think about this whole debate, which is HUGE in the US and apparently hugest in Hollywood. From a story on findingdulcinea.com:

"In 1998, a study published in the medical journal The Lancet linked the measles, mumps rubella vaccine to autism. The study, which was based on 12 children, led many parents to forego vaccination to protect their children from autism, and over the last decade, the prevalence of measles has risen worldwide.

A story published Sunday in the Times of London claims, “In most of the 12 cases, the children’s ailments as described in The Lancet were different from their hospital and GP records.” The article also says several parents raised concerns about their children before getting the MMR vaccine."

What does everyone think about this? I am frustrated with people like Jenny McCarthy saying her son is "cured" of autism, people like the Travoltas claiming that their son (may he rest in peace) didn't have it, despite outward signs, and people jumping on the bandwagon of the vaccine argument. I feel like the story above isn't getting enough press. I just wanted to throw that out there.

Liz

 

[Skull Pilot]

Personally, i think autism is the new A.D.D.

In our rush to label and pigeon hole children, especially boys, we need to find a culprit for every single odd behavior.

An awful lot of these "autistic" people are fully functioning and no one would know they have a "disorder' unless it was advertised.

Hell I'm glad I didn't grow up in an era of labeling as we have now. I was a shy kid who would rather read and I kept to myself so much that i would surely have been labeled autistic as a young boy.

At another point in my life I surely would have been labeled ADHD because even though i was a very good student, i was also extremely rebellious and a bit of a troublemaker.

I can only imagine the drugs and therapy i would be subjected to if I were a kid today.

 

[Valerie]

So that landmark study linking measles/mumps/rubella and autism is apparently coming under fire. I can't link in here because I'm a new member! But basically the Times of London reported that the data in the study was falsified, which could change a lot for the way we think about this whole debate, which is HUGE in the US and apparently hugest in Hollywood. From a story on findingdulcinea.com:

"In 1998, a study published in the medical journal The Lancet linked the measles, mumps rubella vaccine to autism. The study, which was based on 12 children, led many parents to forego vaccination to protect their children from autism, and over the last decade, the prevalence of measles has risen worldwide.

A story published Sunday in the Times of London claims, “In most of the 12 cases, the children’s ailments as described in The Lancet were different from their hospital and GP records.” The article also says several parents raised concerns about their children before getting the MMR vaccine."

What does everyone think about this? I am frustrated with people like Jenny McCarthy saying her son is "cured" of autism, people like the Travoltas claiming that their son (may he rest in peace) didn't have it, despite outward signs, and people jumping on the bandwagon of the vaccine argument. I feel like the story above isn't getting enough press. I just wanted to throw that out there.

Liz

MMR doctor Andrew Wakefield fixed data on autism - Times Online

THE doctor who sparked the scare over the safety of the MMR vaccine for children changed and misreported results in his research, creating the appearance of a possible link with autism, a Sunday Times investigation has found.

Confidential medical documents and interviews with witnesses have established that Andrew Wakefield manipulated patients’ data, which triggered fears that the MMR triple vaccine to protect against measles, mumps and rubella was linked to the condition.

 

[roomy]

Personally, i think autism is the new A.D.D.

In our rush to label and pigeon hole children, especially boys, we need to find a culprit for every single odd behavior.

An awful lot of these "autistic" people are fully functioning and no one would know they have a "disorder' unless it was advertised.

Hell I'm glad I didn't grow up in an era of labeling as we have now. I was a shy kid who would rather read and I kept to myself so much that i would surely have been labeled autistic as a young boy.

At another point in my life I surely would have been labeled ADHD because even though i was a very good student, i was also extremely rebellious and a bit of a troublemaker.

I can only imagine the drugs and therapy i would be subjected to if I were a kid today.

Well, well, well, I agree with you.Thats not to say there is no autism but as you say it is too easily diagnosed.Hell, everybody I know, myself included must be autistic.

 

[Valerie]

I think a great deal of the MMR scare had to do with the fact that the immunization is given at the 15 to 18 month range which happens to coincide with the developmental stage where children typically show symptoms of developmental delay. Many associated the new symptoms with having just received the MMR vaccine when in fact it was mostly just a coincidence. There is no more mercury in vaccines any more.

Mercury and Vaccines (Thimerosal)

Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930s. There is no convincing scientific evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site. However, in July 1999, the Public Health Service agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure.

Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal.htm

 

[Valerie]

Personally, i think autism is the new A.D.D.

In our rush to label and pigeon hole children, especially boys, we need to find a culprit for every single odd behavior.

An awful lot of these "autistic" people are fully functioning and no one would know they have a "disorder' unless it was advertised.

Hell I'm glad I didn't grow up in an era of labeling as we have now. I was a shy kid who would rather read and I kept to myself so much that i would surely have been labeled autistic as a young boy.

At another point in my life I surely would have been labeled ADHD because even though i was a very good student, i was also extremely rebellious and a bit of a troublemaker.

I can only imagine the drugs and therapy i would be subjected to if I were a kid today.

Well, well, well, I agree with you.Thats not to say there is no autism but as you say it is too easily diagnosed.Hell, everybody I know, myself included must be autistic.

I agree there is often a misconception that every sign of a child's developmental delay is some form of disorder in the "autism spectrum". They are indeed over hyping the diagnosis every time a kid has a speech impediment or a tic of some sort he needs to have "further testing". (cha-ching!)

But make no mistake, autism is a serious neurological disorder and autism and attention deficit disorder are two entirely different conditions.

:: Autism is a bio-neurological developmental disability that generally appears before the age of 3.

:: Autism impacts the normal development of the brain in the areas of social interaction, communication skills, and cognitive function. Individuals with autism typically have difficulties in verbal and non-verbal communication, social interactions, and leisure or play activities.

Autism education is key; treating a child with autism is a large effort involving many professionals and non-professionals. autism diagnosis, autism education, autism treatment.

 

[wolfparade]

This story just broke on the NYTimes site:

Court Says Vaccine Not to Blame for Autism

By DONALD G. McNEIL Jr.
Published: February 12, 2009

In a blow to the movement arguing that vaccines trigger autism, three Federal judges ruled Thursday against all three families in three test cases, all of whom had sought compensation from the Federal vaccine-injury fund.

Both sides in the debate have been awaiting decisions in these cases since hearings began in early 2007; more than 5,000 similar claims have been filed with the fund.

These three decisions, each looking into a different theory as to how vaccines might have injured the children, are expected to guide the outcomes of all those claims.

The judges ruled that the families seeking compensation had not shown that their children’s autism was brought on by the presence of thimerosal, a mercury vaccine preservative, by the weakened measles virus used in the measles/mumps/rubella vaccine, or by a combination of the two.

For example, in a case pitting the family of Michelle Cedillo, a severely autistic child, against the Federal Department of Health and Human Services, the special master for the U.S. Court of Federal Claims ruled that the Cedillos had “failed to demonstrate that thimerosal-containing vaccines can contribute to causing immune dysfunction, or that the MMR vaccine can contributed to causing either autism or gastrointestinal dysfunction.”

More on the homepage of the Times...

 

[No_Promises1987]

My Uncle who is a year older then me (my Grandmother had him late in life, her 8th child), born in 1972, I remember it being questioned so much about his immunization's as to why he was Autistic, so much so, my mother fought to keep my sister and I from getting any when we were young, she had to fight the schools. Basically I remember talk of blame at immunizations for kids way back in the 70's and 80's.

You cannot communicate or talk to my Uncle, he looks at you with a blank stare and crazy smile, he has no idea where he is at or who we are, who he is. My sister and I had to babysit him on a regular basis, talk about a strange situation. Within this past year, hearing about that certain immunizations may be the cause of autism, I personally would love to find out if it is true or was true, my Grandmother I think blamed herself for her youngest child's disability, until she passed last summer.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Personally, i think autism is the new A.D.D.

In our rush to label and pigeon hole children, especially boys, we need to find a culprit for every single odd behavior.

An awful lot of these "autistic" people are fully functioning and no one would know they have a "disorder' unless it was advertised.

Hell I'm glad I didn't grow up in an era of labeling as we have now. I was a shy kid who would rather read and I kept to myself so much that i would surely have been labeled autistic as a young boy.

At another point in my life I surely would have been labeled ADHD because even though i was a very good student, i was also extremely rebellious and a bit of a troublemaker.

I can only imagine the drugs and therapy i would be subjected to if I were a kid today.

Well, well, well, I agree with you.Thats not to say there is no autism but as you say it is too easily diagnosed.Hell, everybody I know, myself included must be autistic.

the wonders never cease.

I am not saying that autism does not exist, i worked with autistic kids and it is very real but calling any minor set of behavior oddities autism is over the top.

 

[No_Promises1987]

Since the early 90's to now, (which has gotten worse now) too many people and children are being misdiagnosed. I don't believe proper tests are being done. Whether it is depression and all it's forms (manic, bi-polar ect.) or ADD ADHD and Autism. People have been too easily to jump to a conclusion without fully investigating it...and then its like "YOUR depressed' when really it may only be a hormonal imbalance, or "YOUR Autistic" when you just may be really good at one subject (music, books, math) and completely focus on it., or "YOUR ADHD" when really you had too much sugar (diabetic complications) or you have allergies. I think the majority in public will get so sick of this or is getting sick of this,... enough to not give sympathy to those who have these actual disorders, and that is sad to those who really have it, however can't blame them either because enough is enough, cannot 'coin' a disorder because you checked off a 'symptom' sheet at a doctors office, you should do further testing (blood tests, cat scans ect)....be absolutely sure this is what you got or your child has.

 

[barry1960]

Since the early 90's to now, (which has gotten worse now) too many people and children are being misdiagnosed. I don't believe proper tests are being done. Whether it is depression and all it's forms (manic, bi-polar ect.) or ADD ADHD and Autism. People have been too easily to jump to a conclusion without fully investigating it...and then its like "YOUR depressed' when really it may only be a hormonal imbalance, or "YOUR Autistic" when you just may be really good at one subject (music, books, math) and completely focus on it., or "YOUR ADHD" when really you had too much sugar (diabetic complications) or you have allergies. I think the majority in public will get so sick of this or is getting sick of this,... enough to not give sympathy to those who have these actual disorders, and that is sad to those who really have it, however can't blame them either because enough is enough, cannot 'coin' a disorder because you checked off a 'symptom' sheet at a doctors office, you should do further testing (blood tests, cat scans ect)....be absolutely sure this is what you got or your child has.

Autism is a very pervasive disorder. Unfortunately you cannot confirm autism with blood testing and CAT scans. The autism diagnosis is based on symptoms. I also do not believe that people are too quick to jump to the conclusion of autism. Actually the opposite is true. Parents of autistic children often go through a stage of denial which the medical community and government agencies are only too willing to accomodate. As far as being really good at a single subject, that would be an autistic savant. There are less than 100 confirmed autistic savants in the world. There are over a million diagnosed on the autistic spectrum. Therefore the odds of being "really good at one subject" and therefore being diagnosed with autism are low.

Unfortunately, unless autism strikes one's family, people are blissfully ignorant of it. Many perceptions are based upon the movie Rain Man. There is a lot of ignorance out there, including the medical community. Most pediatricians know much less about autism then the average parent with an autistic child. This makes a difficult diagnosis even more problematic.

Parents of autistic children often see their child regress shortly after his vaccinations. This could be coincidence or there could be a link. The regression is often linked with gastrointestinal symptoms which could be a marker of a damage immune system. There is almost certainly a genetic component to autism, but that does not rule out environmental factors including vaccinations. A solely genetic cause for autism would fail to explain its spectacular rise.

Many will state that they knowe which 100% certainty that autism is genetic or autism is caused from vaccinations. My opinion is that it is likely that autism has a genetic pre-disposition that is triggered by other factors. Vaccinations as a cause of autism have neither been proved or disproved. In fact, there have been few studies.

For the parents who children have been diagnosed with autism following a regression subsequent the MMI vaccination, can you blame them over their hesistancy to vaccinate. To have an autistic anywhere but on the high end of the spectrum is a world shattering event. The child's like is altered along with all hopes and dreams of the parent. The care of such a child is exhausting. There is insufficient assistance for these families and little sympathy from an ignorant largely medical communityand poppulation.

As far as vaccinations go, if you were to ask a parent if there would rather have a child with measles or mumps, or even polio as opposed to autism, I gather the majority would respond that they would rather take their chances with a physical disease.

There is a lot of fear out there. Fear from autistic parents that there children will have to endure forced vaccinations. Fear from parents that is not all children are vaccinated, that their children will be exposed to disease. Fear from CDC that vaccinations will fall below the 90% threshhold. Fear from the medical community and pharmaceautical companies that they will be held liable. And with this fear is a lot of ignorance.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Explain how during the 60's and 70's and even early 80's there was no "jump" in autism and now it is the vaccine?

The case of 12 children is first off to low a number and secondly it is shown the doctor falsified his records. Then we have the three court cases. No evidence has been shown linking the vaccine to autism.

This is gonna be like the claim that power lines cause cancer. No evidence actually exists but people believe it anyway.

 

[barry1960]

The case of 12 children is first off to low a number and secondly it is shown the doctor falsified his records. Then we have the three court cases. No evidence has been shown linking the vaccine to autism.

This is gonna be like the claim that power lines cause cancer. No evidence actually exists but people believe it anyway.[/QUOTE]

First, there is not sufficient evidence to link autism to vacinations to win a court case.

As far as a possible explanation regarding ther 1990's jump in autism as opposed to an earlier decade I will attempt a possible explanation. It is the theory of some physicians that the multitude of vaccinations overload the immnune system in individuals genetically pre-disposed. The number of vaccinations has increased quite a bit from 1960s to the present. Now that is just a theory.

However the medical communities stance that genetic factors alone cause autism does not hold water. The rise in autism would not be possible if it was based solely on genetic factors. The medical community attempts to explain this by claiming that we are better at diagnosing autism. However severe autism pretty much results in a dysfunctional individual. Thirty years ago you would have to search far and wide to find a severe case of autism. Now severe cases of autism are everywhere.

Autism is probably caused by a combinations of factors, including genetic, and possibly including vaccinations. It is of epidemic proportions. By comparison we had a national war against polio when the incident rate was 1 in 2500.

Now there is fear and a problem with vaccination confidence. Rather than demonize parents who resist vaccinations and autism advocates, why not just change the vaccination schedule?

 

[Luissa]

I think a great deal of the MMR scare had to do with the fact that the immunization is given at the 15 to 18 month range which happens to coincide with the developmental stage where children typically show symptoms of developmental delay. Many associated the new symptoms with having just received the MMR vaccine when in fact it was mostly just a coincidence. There is no more mercury in vaccines any more.

Mercury and Vaccines (Thimerosal)

Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930s. There is no convincing scientific evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site. However, in July 1999, the Public Health Service agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure.

Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.

CDC - Concerns - Mercury and Vaccines (Thimerosal) -Vaccine Safety

I have to agree with you there! I do believe that they should not give your child so many vaccines at once and should spread them out but not due to autism. When my son was I think one or two months I can't remember for sure they gave him three in each leg and than told me to watch for an allergic reactions or siezures, alittle scary for someone with a new baby. They end up getting six to seven each time for the next year or so.
You can also have your doctor spread them out on your own and with my son being smaller than most kids his age I waited to get his year shots which is when they first give them live virus shots until a week ago when he was fourteen months old. I only did this because he doesn't go to daycare and with it being winter he does not go out much.
You should alway vaccinate your child, I would rather have a child with a autism than a child who is dead from some disease!

 

[strollingbones]

apparently the horror of polio has faded from people's mind..or young people just dont get it...i am old enought to remember the first polio vaccines...and what it meant at the time..to my generation...go to any large graveyard and find the infant graves...from the early 50's...do you have a clue what an iron lung is..or was? the legs of someone with polio..the fact that it can and does often reoccur in adults survivors...

other than that i pretty much agree with barry..genetic...parents looking for something or someone to blame...and over use of the term to blanket many symptoms

 

[Luissa]

apparently the horror of polio has faded from people's mind..or young people just dont get it...i am old enought to remember the first polio vaccines...and what it meant at the time..to my generation...go to any large graveyard and find the infant graves...from the early 50's...do you have a clue what an iron lung is..or was? the legs of someone with polio..the fact that it can and does often reoccur in adults survivors...

other than that i pretty much agree with barry..genetic...parents looking for something or someone to blame...and over use of the term to blanket many symptoms

This guy I went all throught school with mom actually had polio, she was lucky because the only lasting affect was a limp.

As for autism they say you can usually pick up on signs when they are babies, so the whole vaccine thing just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[del]

apparently the horror of polio has faded from people's mind..or young people just dont get it...i am old enought to remember the first polio vaccines...and what it meant at the time..to my generation...go to any large graveyard and find the infant graves...from the early 50's...do you have a clue what an iron lung is..or was? the legs of someone with polio..the fact that it can and does often reoccur in adults survivors...

other than that i pretty much agree with barry..genetic...parents looking for something or someone to blame...and over use of the term to blanket many symptoms

i fremember kids in my class w/braces and the relief when the salk vaccine was announced. i had my kids vaccinated and i don't undrstand why anyone wouldn't.

 

[barry1960]

I think you may have misunderstood me. The autism vaccination link has been neither proven nor DISPROVEN. It may be subtantially more than just parents looking to cast blame. Why wouldn't anyone want to vaccinate their child? Fear of autism.....whether that fear is warranted or not is the matter of debate....statistically it is pretty significant, but the statistics do not prove anything. What the stats do is make one pause.

As far as polio being worse than autism I beg to differ. My father had polio as a child. Very nasty disease laid him up better part of a year, but he was lucky and recovered. My son was hitting his milestones until he regressed right after his MMI shot. He is autistic and I cannot overestimate the amount of pain and disruption autism has caused in our lives.

I know many parents of autistic children. Most will admit very quietly that at one time or another that it might be better if their child were dead. Still they courageously look for improvement. Unlike downs syndrome autistics can look forward to a full lifespan so the parents always worry about who will care for their child when they are gone. Let's see, 24 hour care everyday with little hope and fear for the future. I will take polio over severe autism anyday. So would my dad and he has experienced both.

Maybe the parents are looking for someone to blame, rightly or wrongly. Considering their pain who can blame them? The vaccination schedule should be changed. At the least it would ease vaccination fears. Those with autism in their families should research before vaccinating.

BTW, you cannot pick up signs of autism in infants. I happen to have read quite a few books on the subject.

Some of you are in some serious need of sensitivity training. Obviously there is a lot of ignorance out there.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I think you may have misunderstood me. The autism vaccination link has been neither proven nor DISPROVEN. It may be subtantially more than just parents looking to cast blame. Why wouldn't anyone want to vaccinate their child? Fear of autism.....whether that fear is warranted or not is the matter of debate....statistically it is pretty significant, but the statistics do not prove anything. What the stats do is make one pause.

As far as polio being worse than autism I beg to differ. My father had polio as a child. Very nasty disease laid him up better part of a year, but he was lucky and recovered. My son was hitting his milestones until he regressed right after his MMI shot. He is autistic and I cannot overestimate the amount of pain and disruption autism has caused in our lives.

I know many parents of autistic children. Most will admit very quietly that at one time or another that it might be better if their child were dead. Still they courageously look for improvement. Unlike downs syndrome autistics can look forward to a full lifespan so the parents always worry about who will care for their child when they are gone. Let's see, 24 hour care everyday with little hope and fear for the future. I will take polio over severe autism anyday. So would my dad and he has experienced both.

Maybe the parents are looking for someone to blame, rightly or wrongly. Considering their pain who can blame them? The vaccination schedule should be changed. At the least it would ease vaccination fears. Those with autism in their families should research before vaccinating.

BTW, you cannot pick up signs of autism in infants. I happen to have read quite a few books on the subject.

Some of you are in some serious need of sensitivity training. Obviously there is a lot of ignorance out there.

Barry, I agree with you 100%. My son is also autistic and those who have not walked a mile in our shoes have no idea. None. They speak with ignorance about things they cannot possibly understand because they have not lived it.

 

[Luissa]

BTW, you cannot pick up signs of autism in infants. I happen to have read quite a few books on the subject.

Some of you are in some serious need of sensitivity training. Obviously there is a lot of ignorance out there.

Earliest Signs of Autism

Understanding Autism: Symptoms, Causes, and Early Signs

"Autism symptoms are usually apparent by 18 to 36 months of age, and subtle warning signs may be evident much earlier—even as early as infancy. Because early intervention makes a huge difference in minimizing the symptoms and negative impact of autism, the earlier autism is identified the better. As a parent, you’re much more likely to catch the early signs and symptoms of autism if you track your child’s development, watching out for developmental delays and red flags"