Utah introducing legislation to make the state "Constitutional Carry"

[eflatminor]

You missed my point completely. I'm not talking about the crazies; I'm talking about normal everyday people who sometimes lose their cool over what usually are minor incidents. Give people like this a gun, and they may well use it in a moment of heated anger...

You people predict this sort of thing every time some state talks about liberalizing its CCW laws, and yet no one can point to it actually happening.

True, but shouldn't our laws be about what FEELS right???

 

[Tech_Esq]

Overall crime rates are not far from the rates for the U.S. as a whole but gun deaths are among the worst. What does that tell you? More guns = more gun deaths.

No, it means people in Arizona tend to use a firearm to kill vs other means compared to other states. So what? Is a person that dies by other means any less dead?

Bottom line, more guns does NOT equal more deaths, which is really what any reasonable person would care about.

It's pertinent to the discussion of the proposed Utah Constitutional carry legislation. If any bohunk in the state can just tuck a gun into his jacket, you'll probably have an increase in accidents from the Barney Fife types who forget to put their bullet in their shirt pocket.

Accidents with potentially deadly tools happen all the time, this one is no different except there is a Constitutional right to have it. Access should be less restrictive not more.

 

[martybegan]

Since several other states have this, shouldnt we be seeing those "tens of thousands" of shootings you worry about? Why is it not already happening in places where this is the law, or for that matter, shouldnt you have seen a spike in this already in places where concealed carry is "shall issue" and anyone meeting some very basic requirements can get a permit?

We do. The states with the highest murder rates are all bright red with next to no gun laws.

Lie much? Your little chart represent "deaths due to injury by firearm", which includes suicides and unintentional injuries. NOT "states with the highest murder rates".

I understand it's easy to lie when you can't argue with logic or reason. It's just so sad you would be so obvious about it.

You have the data that filters out illegal possesors of firearms, and only goes by legitamate concealed carry permit holders?

Because that is the comparison you need to look at.

 

[eflatminor]

We do. The states with the highest murder rates are all bright red with next to no gun laws.

Lie much? Your little chart represent "deaths due to injury by firearm", which includes suicides and unintentional injuries. NOT "states with the highest murder rates".

I understand it's easy to lie when you can't argue with logic or reason. It's just so sad you would be so obvious about it.

You have the data that filters out illegal possesors of firearms, and only goes by legitamate concealed carry permit holders?

Because that is the comparison you need to look at.

Actually, that comparison has nothing to do with the lie that this chart is about murder rates. It is not. It includes suicides and unintentional deaths, which are far more numerous than murders.

Now, if you want to understand how legal CCW holders might commit crimes with their firearms, we need only look to the states that allow CCW:

• Florida - Crime rates involving gun owners with carry permits have consistently been about 0.02% of all carry permit holders since Florida’s right-to-carry law started.
• Texas - People with concealed carry permits are 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public and 13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public.
• Oregon - Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm.

Clearly, CCW holders are overwhelmingly law abiding citizens.

 

[Avatar4321]

If you guys are going to use a map of murder rates, wouldn't it be wise to use one that is up to date? You do realize gun laws likely have changed in every state to some degree, right?

 

[eflatminor]

If you guys are going to use a map of murder rates, wouldn't it be wise to use one that is up to date? You do realize gun laws likely have changed in every state to some degree, right?

Something the gun grabbers avoid talking about is that for all the firearms in America, we not even in the top 100 countries of murder rates per capita. Up to date figures indicate that many western countries with virtual bans on civilian gun ownership face far higher murder rates than we do, including Germany, Italy, France and most Scandinavian countries:

Murders (per capita) statistics - Countries Compared - NationMaster

If more guns = more murder, we should be #1, yet we're not even close.