USMB (Saddleback) Forum Question

[midcan5]

Opinions on vouchers and home schooling.

PS many teachers in family, my wife is in the best teachers in the US frequently.

Vouchers(V), this is curious to me as why do conservatives want government to give money here but not for health or food? Damn if I know, just more hokum, more spin, more confusing nonsense!

Private schools cost so much vouchers would need to be substantial, they would have to provide the accouterments required for school as well, getting there and dressing upper class. No body is going to pay for this. Most of my nieces and nephews have gone to HSs that cost more for one year than my entire college tuition. I had the GI bill which was nice - a sort of voucher - and college should be reasonable for all if not free.

Other impact of V, the poor will again be left out as they sink lower as money moves to upper class children. Inner city requires new schools and where will the competent teachers go. V = bad idea IMHO.

Home schooling? HUH? Isn't that what parents do naturally? Oh you mean educate the brats. Hmmm, sorry but education provides many things as well as education, social integration among others, good things that mature us. Music sports debate girls/boys dances - So I can't fathom anyone home schooling and even though I know everything I didn't have time to impart that to our children.

ps I didn't watch/hear their answers - answers should be thought out.

Jonathan Kozol
http://www.politicalpass.com/2005/11/education-and-fame/

 

[manifold]

Vouchers(V), this is curious to me as why do conservatives want government to give money here but not for health or food?

In a word...hypocrisy.


How 'bout that thing called personal responsiblity dammit!

 

[AllieBaba]

Where to start with my issues and public school teachers. I've been insulted, degraded and humiliated by them... Hows that for ya. Many are in the job just for the pay check. Too many bad ones are still in place due to unions.

Now that the rant is out of the way...

Why does the public school system dodge things like dyslexia? I was informed by a 'learning specialist' that it's an 'archaic' term. Only one state recognizes it as a learning disability and that's Texas. When 20+% of the population is dyslexic, maybe we should focus on it. Did you know that if one parent is dyslexic there's a 50/50 chance of the child being, and if both are the child definitely will be.

When teachers look at me like I'm dumb when I bring up dyslexia, that's when I started to get a chip about school teachers. Teachers need to be educated as to what dyslexia is and that the signs of it are there from preschool age. It starts with speech issues.

Here's some info for ya: Bright Solutions for Dyslexia Please be informed as to what dyslexia is and how it can be dealt with in the best way.

I hope you have a great day too. Thanks for not biting my head off when I did yours.

I've met about 5 good teachers in my entire life..and dozens of crappy ones.
My son was diagnosed with juvenile epilepsy. His teacher (who was on her last year) was not interested in dealing with it, so she paired him up with another student to "help" him. He lost all his friends, who ridiculed him and discussed the possibility of him having a brain tumor in front of the teacher. He had slight behavioral issues because of his inability to concentrate or follow direction (petit mal....interruption of consciousness) and when I attempted to explain this to the superintendent, after becoming disgusted with his teacher who made no attempt whatsoever to accomodate him, I was told (despite the fact that I had a detailed letter from an esteemed neurologist explaining the behavioral symptoms of epilepsy) that I should have him tested for Tourrette's.

Flash forward to high school. The engineering class constructs a little robot thing and leaves it in an open room near the shop where dozens of kids pass by. Somebody goes into the room and runs the little doohickey off the table, breaking it. My son, who happens to be ONE OF MANY who are in the hall that way, is accused of it although nobody saw him in there or saw him even showing an interest in it, let alone operating it. I'm brought into the office, thinking really nothing of it...actually rather suspecting my son may have done something worth a reprimand. I'm pregnant. I'm met by the vice-principal and the idiot campus cop retard. They commence to interrogate my son, including using obscenities (the vice principal, not the cop), telling him to shut up...and when I, by this time in tears, stand up and say "this is over, we're leaving" was told to sit down, I wasn't released yet.

If I hadn't been pregnant I would have knocked the shit out of that little weasel of a vice principal and taken the assault charge with a smirk.

As it was I yanked my boy out of that school so fast it made their heads spin. The next year, when it was time to register, I went in and made it very, very clear that the vice principal and prick of a cop were not to go anywhere near my child, ever, or I'd file a torte claim, sue the school and call Geraldo Rivera before they could pick themselves up off the floor, where they'd be after I used a Louiseville Slugger on their worthless asses.

I received a letter of apology from the POS, which I completely ignored (though I did file it away for future reference if need be) and that was the end of that.

I've watched the attitude of teachers towards those who have money or influence, compared to their dismissive and antagonistic attitudes towards those they think have nobody to protect or support them. I've watched their jaws dropped when they belatedly realize that when they attempt to pull their crap on MY children, it turns out that my kids aren't exactly what they thought they were, and I actually have a little more pull and know how than they expected, and I've laughed at them as they fall over themselves trying to remedy the situation.

I've been in classrooms where grade school teachers MISSPELL the week's spelling word list, and classrooms where the teacher sits on her ass and allows the parental assistance to answer the math questions of middle school kids that are not within the ken of the helpers. I've seen them put kids out in the freezing weather to wait for the bus, without monitoring them for hypothermia, without checking that they are wearing their gloves....and then I've seen them tell parents that it's the 7-year old "kids'" fault for playing in the snow (and they can't wait inside) when they get off the bus some 30 minutes later, blue and lethargic.

Teachers are not martyrs, they are not the angels of the universe, and they are, by and large, stupid with opinions of themselves which contrast directly with anything they have actually earned. They are overpaid, impossible to get rid of if they are merely incompetent, and in general a huge boil on the ass of government spending.

 

[random3434]

Angel Heart and AllieBaba, I am sorry both of you had a terrible time with the people who were supposed to educate your children.



Not all educators are bad.

But, it makes me angry that their are some like the ones you both described. Yes, some teachers want the students to fit in a little "box" that they dare not get out of. God forbid a child is a bit hyper, or maybe just bored because he/she is not being challenged enough by the teacher. Or the child doesn't understand the concepts being taught, so acts out instead of asking for help. Some teachers teach by the manual, and don't have an ounce of creativity in them.


But there ARE a lot of good, caring teachers out there. Some of us DO care, and want what is best for the child. I myself believe in behavior modification instead of meds for students in most cases. A lot of teacher want them drugged up all day so they are not a 'distraction' in class. I guess some teachers should have NEVER gone into teaching (there is one in my building that never should even be around kids )-but for me, it's what I have wanted to do since I was 13 years old.


Angel Heart-we are cool. I am sure if we all met we could have a blast talking over some wine or vodka tonics.

Have a good evening ya all!

 

[Angel Heart]

Angel Heart and AllieBaba, I am sorry both of you had a terrible time with the people who were supposed to educate your children.



Not all educators are bad.

But, it makes me angry that their are some like the ones you both described. Yes, some teachers want the students to fit in a little "box" that they dare not get out of. God forbid a child is a bit hyper, or maybe just bored because he/she is not being challenged enough by the teacher. Or the child doesn't understand the concepts being taught, so acts out instead of asking for help. Some teachers teach by the manual, and don't have an ounce of creativity in them.


But there ARE a lot of good, caring teachers out there. Some of us DO care, and want what is best for the child. I myself believe in behavior modification instead of meds for students in most cases. A lot of teacher want them drugged up all day so they are not a 'distraction' in class. I guess some teachers should have NEVER gone into teaching (there is one in my building that never should even be around kids )-but for me, it's what I have wanted to do since I was 13 years old.


Angel Heart-we are cool. I am sure if we all met we could have a blast talking over some wine or vodka tonics.

Have a good evening ya all!

Oh I know not all are. My mother is one. She's currently homeschooling my oldest son. He's profound ADHD, dyslexia and aspergers. She left the school system due to the issues she saw.

The sad truth is, it takes one bad teacher to undo all the good several have done. I've seen it happen first hand. It took tons of undoing. At times it's not just the kids that are bullies .

I think we need to start by getting the union out of it. They have too much power. Start over. Make sure that it's easy to get rid of abusive teachers. Put in place parent councils that have true power. Not a glorified fundraising group (PTA/PTO). Members of the council must be put in place by the parents. The majority of the council has to be current parents. Get the parents involved in the hiring progress. Require all hires to cross that table. Removals the same way. It really does work. The parents know what their children need.

 

[random3434]

Oh I know not all are. My mother is one. She's currently homeschooling my oldest son. He's profound ADHD, dyslexia and aspergers. She left the school system due to the issues she saw.

The sad truth is, it takes one bad teacher to undo all the good several have done. I've seen it happen first hand. It took tons of undoing. At times it's not just the kids that are bullies .

I think we need to start by getting the union out of it. They have too much power. Start over. Make sure that it's easy to get rid of abusive teachers. Put in place parent councils that have true power. Not a glorified fundraising group (PTA/PTO). Members of the council must be put in place by the parents. The majority of the council has to be current parents. Get the parents involved in the hiring progress. Require all hires to cross that table. Removals the same way. It really does work. The parents know what their children need.

Those are GREAT ideas! And fyi, I'm NOT a member of the teacher's union.

Tell me some more!

 

[Angel Heart]

Those are GREAT ideas! And fyi, I'm NOT a member of the teacher's union.

Tell me some more!

Here's the data behind it:

Head Start Information and Publication Center: Policy Council Tool Kit

Head Start Program Performance Standards
Sections Applying to Program Governance
45CFR1304.50
45 CFR 1304
Each grantee and delegate agency is required to establish a policy group and a well-functioning governing body. In accordance with Head Start legislation, regulations and policies, they share the responsibility for overseeing the delivery of high quality services to children and families. The formal structure of shared governance is described. The composition and responsibilities of policy groups, Parent Committees and governing bodies are outlined. Involvement in the Policy Council and Policy Committee and the local Parent Committees empowers the active participation of parents and other community representatives.

I found this video that expains it well:

Laulima (Working Together)

I'm currently holding the Chairperson seat for my local program.

If you have more questions, feel free to ask. I've made so many changes through my time on the council.

 

[random3434]

Here's the data behind it:

Head Start Information and Publication Center: Policy Council Tool Kit



I found this video that expains it well:

Laulima (Working Together)

I'm currently holding the Chairperson seat for my local program.

If you have more questions, feel free to ask. I've made so many changes through my time on the council.

That's it, I'm moving to Oregon and working for you! My fiancee and I talk about packing it all in and moving there.

I have ALWAYS loved everything Head Start does, and wish I worked for them!


{A friend of mine had a daughter with disabilities who went to Head Start. When he started making a ton of money with Oracle he donated a bunch of that to the Head Start program. He had always said if he ever had the $$ to do it, he would, because they helped his daughter so much. (funny aside, his accountant told him it was TOO MUCH MONEY to give to Head Start, that he was crazy to give them that much. He fired him! }

 

[Angel Heart]

That's it, I'm moving to Oregon and working for you! My fiancee and I talk about packing it all in and moving there.

I have ALWAYS loved everything Head Start does, and wish I worked for them!


{A friend of mine had a daughter with disabilities who went to Head Start. When he started making a ton of money with Oracle he donated a bunch of that to the Head Start program. He had always said if he ever had the $$ to do it, he would, because they helped his daughter so much. (funny aside, his accountant told him it was TOO MUCH MONEY to give to Head Start, that he was crazy to give them that much. He fired him! }

ROFL all local Head Starts have Policy Council. The video was from Hawaii. It's a federal program that actually works. I think due to the grassroots involvement of the parents.

 

[random3434]

ROFL all local Head Starts have Policy Council. The video was from Hawaii. It's a federal program that actually works. I think due to the grassroots involvement of the parents.

Well, Oregon is a lot closer to Hawaii than Indiana is! :


Parents is where is ALL starts for children. Good for you A.H., good for you!

 

[Angel Heart]

The day I walked into Head Start they informed me that I'm my childs first and primary teacher. I had never been treated like that. Sadly I didn't get into Head Start until after my last was born.