USMB Poll: Are you for or agaainst the Libya assault?

[High_Gravity]

It is not a war. It is a UN sanctioned intervention... specifically to stop Gaddafi from bombing the crap out of his own people. That is not war... it is intervention. There is no way to implement a 'no fly zone' (as authorized by the UN) without taking out the structures that Gadaffi needs to either:

a. strike at the UN forces
b. strike at his own people

This is not rocket science, it is rational thought.

I'm looking at differently from the perspective of a Military member, if I was a fighter pilot and you are asking me to fly over Libyan air space to risk my life and bomb the fucking shit out of them, it is a war to me.

That is not what they are doing. If it was, it would be war. But they aren't, so it isn't. They are going after very specific targets. Those targets are legitimately authorized by the UN to create a 'no fly zone'. More importantly, the second part of that resolution gives consent for international forces to preemptively take out threats to civilians... and that is what they are doing.

Yesterday, a Brit mission was called off because there were civilians in the area. That mission would have gone ahead in a war... it did not.... because it ain't a war.

Wer not just creating a no fly zone though, we bombed Ghaddafis house and we are basically helping the rebels over throw him.

 

[Truthmatters]

Some actions will produce the results you seek, sometimes actions wont.


I will admitt their are times when the UN should have acted when they didnt but that in no way means they should forever never act again because of past mistakes.

Why does Obama need orders from the UN? If he sees a dictator brutalizing his own people why doesn't he just send over his friendly cruise missiles to fix the problem?

It's about morals right?

why do you have to play silly partisan games with everything that happens.

Its about doing the right thing because it will be a win win for everyone in the world except Gadfi of course.

It will save lives , help a people acheive freedom and make for a more stable world in the future.

Its completely legal and a wise foriegn policy move done without cowboy boots, swagger and idiot lines like "bring em on".

Its adult foreign policy.

 

[High_Gravity]

No, but I can show you...

"The Libyan ambassador to the UN, who is one of Colonel Gaddafi's oldest friends, denounced the embattled leader on Friday night and urged the world to punish him."

Libya's UN ambassador denounces Gaddafi - Telegraph

Does that count?

Ok thats 1 person, where is the official signed notarized letter from the Libyan people asking for US Cruise Missiles and fighter jets? there were several ex diplomats and ambassadors asking us to get involved in Iraq too, so that must jusify that right?

Fair enough. If that's the only thing that will convince you I will admit defeat.

I'm sorry but thats 1 man and I don't think he has the authority to speak for all the Libyan people.

 

[RonPaulian]

I'm against. If we're going to attack Libya, might as well attack Israel too.

 

[Truthmatters]

Why are you ignoring the other links I gave you to the REBELS asking fro UN intervention?

 

[Immanuel]

He's got 60 days.

Technically he is REQUIRED to inform Congress BEFORE he uses military force or assets. He did not inform Congress. He has not asked for Congressional permission, he has not spoken at all to Congress about this.

How would you know if he's informed Congress or not? It's traditionally done in a letter, not an appearance.

Why do you assume that he didn't?

Would it surprise you if Congress was totally unaware of the assault even today?

I'm not so sure that I would be surprised by that.

Immie

 

[VaYank5150]

Really? can you show me a copy of the letter from the Libyan people asking for US Cruise Missiles and fight jets to bomb the fuck out of their country?

And after you send that, could you please tell me if those same people are planning to help pay for out "actions"?

How about we send teh bill straight to the oil companies who have gained the most from gadfi being allowed to bully his people for 30 years.

Yeah....let me know how well that works out for you. Besides, the GOP would NEVER let that happen.

 

[High_Gravity]

Why are you ignoring the other links I gave you to the REBELS asking fro UN intervention?

Ok I'll give that to you, so is that all it takes now? a people ask for help and the US Cruise Missiles and fighter jets come flying in? someone better tell the folks in Darfur and Bahrain.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Some actions will produce the results you seek, sometimes actions wont.


I will admitt their are times when the UN should have acted when they didnt but that in no way means they should forever never act again because of past mistakes.

Why does Obama need orders from the UN? If he sees a dictator brutalizing his own people why doesn't he just send over his friendly cruise missiles to fix the problem?

It's about morals right?

why do you have to play silly partisan games with everything that happens.

Its about doing the right thing because it will be a win win for everyone in the world except Gadfi of course.

It will save lives , help a people acheive freedom and make for a more stable world in the future.

Its completely legal and a wise foriegn policy move done without cowboy boots, swagger and idiot lines like "bring em on".

Its adult foreign policy.

Lol come on Truth, we both know which of us is the partisan. You know I hate both parties, and you think Obama can do no wrong and no republican can do anything right.

I'll ask again, as yet again you've conveniently ignored what I said.

WHY DOESN'T OBAMA GO TO OTHER COUNTRIES WITH GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS MURDERING CIVILIANS AT A MUCH HIGHER RATE?

 

[WillowTree]

I am for getting rid of that Libyan shitstain Qaddafi, who had a hand in murdering well over 200 innocent Americans.

And helping the Libyans determine their own destiny and getting rid of a 42 year old regime.

But but but,, obie wan has stated his goal is not to get rid of the Libyan shitstain. I say we capture him and send him to Scotland..

 

[NYcarbineer]

Allowing people to be slaughtered proves nothing

Then you've changed your mind about Iraq, which I'm assuming you opposed?

Then we're wrong not to have American military in Darfur, and in the Congo?

Then we're wrong not to militarily intervene in the drug wars in Mexico?

Nope , Iraq was not asking for help from the UN to take their dictator out.

These people have done so.

That's the craziest thing I've heard all week.

 

[WillowTree]

One thing I want to address is this idea of Constitutionality. Obama's NOT overstepping his constitutional powers with regards to Libya. The constitution says only congress has the right to DECLARE war. The last time we declared war was WW2. Legally speaking Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gulf War, etc. were all NOT declared wars by congress.

If you call Obama out for violating the constitution by conducting Libya-you have to call out Bush (both), Truman, etc. for doing the exact same thing.

BTW-I don't support what he's doing in Libya-I don't think it's any of our business. Just saying some people don't really understand what's in our constitution.

No, he is supposed to go through Congress to get authorization to use military force unless there is an imminent threat to the US.

Correct. and Greta debunked the "humanitarian" bs last night. She pointed out that 35 thousand people have died in the drug wars in Mexico and they are an imminent threat to the US.. no action there,, so bs on the humanitarian lie.

 

[Truthmatters]

The people fighting Gadfi asked the UN to help them, the UN voted to do so.


Its not crazy its what happened.

 

[Truthmatters]

One thing I want to address is this idea of Constitutionality. Obama's NOT overstepping his constitutional powers with regards to Libya. The constitution says only congress has the right to DECLARE war. The last time we declared war was WW2. Legally speaking Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, Gulf War, etc. were all NOT declared wars by congress.

If you call Obama out for violating the constitution by conducting Libya-you have to call out Bush (both), Truman, etc. for doing the exact same thing.

BTW-I don't support what he's doing in Libya-I don't think it's any of our business. Just saying some people don't really understand what's in our constitution.

No, he is supposed to go through Congress to get authorization to use military force unless there is an imminent threat to the US.

Correct. and Greta debunked the "humanitarian" bs last night. She pointed out that 35 thousand people have died in the drug wars in Mexico and they are an imminent threat to the US.. no action there,, so bs on the humanitarian lie.

Greta is a right wing hack.


If the US could bomb military targets that would allow the mexican people to take all the drug lords out we would have already done it.


You can not compare the two situations.

One will work and the other is just a stupid example of partisan hate.

 

[High_Gravity]

The people fighting Gadfi asked the UN to help them, the UN voted to do so.


Its not crazy its what happened.

Why didn't the UN step in to help in Rwanda?

 

[Dr.Drock]

The people fighting Gadfi asked the UN to help them, the UN voted to do so.


Its not crazy its what happened.

So in all the other countries where brutal governments have killed civilians none of civilian populations have asked for help?

Is that where you're taking your stand?

 

[Immanuel]

Some actions will produce the results you seek, sometimes actions wont.


I will admitt their are times when the UN should have acted when they didnt but that in no way means they should forever never act again because of past mistakes.

Why does Obama need orders from the UN? If he sees a dictator brutalizing his own people why doesn't he just send over his friendly cruise missiles to fix the problem?

It's about morals right?

why do you have to play silly partisan games with everything that happens.

Its about doing the right thing because it will be a win win for everyone in the world except Gadfi of course.

It will save lives , help a people acheive freedom and make for a more stable world in the future.

Its completely legal and a wise foriegn policy move done without cowboy boots, swagger and idiot lines like "bring em on".

Its adult foreign policy.

OMG! Please tell me you of all people did not really type that!

Immie

 

[Truthmatters]

Libyan rebels to approach UN for military help - Rediff.com India News

 

[High_Gravity]

FOXNews.com - Taylor Welcomes U.S. Intervention in Liberia - U.S. & World

Liberias president requested US Military intervention, but we didn't do shit for them because Liberia has nothing.

 

[High_Gravity]

Libyan rebels to approach UN for military help - Rediff.com India News

So if the people in Bahrain and Zimbabwe go to the UN and request help, when will the US Cruise Missiles and fighter jets be on their way?