Using Atomic Bomb in Japan saved 250,000

[KGB]

Once again you DUMB FUCK. What the Japanese Army did was what the society in Japan wanted done. No one of any importance EVER questioned the actions of the Army at all. Japan had no policy of any kind to allow or encourage their troops to behave humanely or by international standards. And in fact any soldier dumb enough OR ANY CIVILIAN, that did question was likely to end up dead or in prison.

It is not real hard you lazy fuck, to learn about the Society that BREED the Japanese Army.

There is no comparison on the Allied side. But you keep making the stupid claim there was. It just shows us how moronically stupid you really are.

You are aware you dumb ass, that if we had invaded the civilian population was armed with bambo spears and would have human wave attacked our lines? You are aware I hope, that on Saipan and Okinawa, both considered Japanese soil that civilians either voluntarily ( Saipan and Okinawa) or involuntarily ( Okinawa) committed suicide in droves?

Why? Because they BELIEVED their Army when it told them the Americans were worse then death. The civilians absolutely supported the military , anything it did was not only acceptable but patriotic to the civilians.

But you just keep proving what a dumb ass you really are.

what people today don't understand is how militaristic societies work. In countries like Imperial Japan & Nazi Germany (& even the Soviet Union to a degree), there is no separation between military & civilian life. Everyone is a soldier. So yes, dropping those atomic bombs was absolutely critical to winning the war & getting Japan away from its militaristic past. Nazi Germany had to be utterly destroyed in order to get German culture away from its Prussian past......people who think otherwise have a great ignorance of history & are viewing this through narrow prisms...

 

[KGB]

Both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were MILITARY TARGETS. One was the location of an entire army forming to oppose the invasion, both had War Industry and were ports as I recall.

If you do not want your civilians killed then do not place your armies IN cities and do not place your civilians in Industrial complexes that build war material.

Just because those people had the misfortune of living under a tyrannical government that probably didn't care about them doesn't mean it was right for us to bomb them. Even though there were military targets in the cities they were still mostly civilians.

It was right for us to win a war.....this is what it took to do so....Japan was a completely militaristic society that had to be destroyed.....Western reason & logic wasn't going to get it done.....quit thinking like a Westerner when trying to assess the situation in an Eastern country....

 

[BaltimoreBob]

Quote: Even though there were military targets in the cities
they were still mostly civilians.

And because 75% of all Citizens of all Countries are C0wards
then they all follow their Leader.

Stop with the MASS C0wardness.

Baltimore Bob

 

[Midnight Marauder]

What's lost so many times in these discussions is the fact that we dropped leaflets warning the population of coming disaster, for about a week prior to the first big boom.

It was a complete waste of time, as the Japanese citizenry was so brainwashed that I doubt even a offshore demonstration of the bomb would have made any difference whatsoever.

As to the OP, give your mom her computer back already, and find some summer activities that don't involve smoking dope while playing video games and trolling message boards with your fake character shit.

I'm not sure "brainwashed" is a good term. Maybe it is. We all believe what our societies and cultures tell us. Japanese culture and society pre-WW II could not be compared to ours at all and applying our Western minds to their actions only creates misunderstanding and bad decisions. We are however, rather consistent at doing it.

The worship of the Emperor by the Japanese people is somewhat analogous to some of what we see today, the cultist Obamaphiles. Except in Japanese culture, it was cultivated over thousands of years, instead of just three or four.

I used to be one of those who thought, "why didn't we just detonate one about 10 miles off their shore, as a warning" but then learned later the utter futility of that, it would have had no effect at all. As the necessity of the second bomb on Nagasaki shows.

There's no question you're right, 99% of American people have no grasp whatsoever on Japanese culture, as it was then and even as it is now. I count myself in that 99%.

America has Bullshit Bob to laugh at

 

[BaltimoreBob]

The Japanese only practiced one thing at Pearl Harbor on 12/7/1941
and that was MURDER.

Baltimore Bob

 

[editec]

I don't believe that at all. Those civilians didn't deserve to be killed.

War is the clash of societies, not armies.

If killing the enemy's civilians gives strategic or tactical advantage then nations set out to kill enemy civilians.

Trying to find a moral path through a war is rather like trying to map a route through the wilderness with an alarm clock.

That's true. However, we maintain that some acts are illegal or wrong even for a war,

We do when it is convenient of course.

When it's not convenient then the slaughter of civilians is chalked off as unfortunate collatoral damages.

But when we (or anyone else) drops bombs (or any sort) on what we know are civilian populations all our protestations that we regret the loss of innocent lives are just so many crocodile tears.

In modern wars (especially) the slaughter of civilians is SOP.

and vaporizing civilians certainly strikes me as a war-crime if ever there was one.

Worse than systematically cutting off the heads of hundreds of thosuands of civilians as a form of amusement for the troops?

Worse than abducting thousands of civilian women for use as amusement for the troops?

Worse than killing those rape victims when they ceased to amuse the troops?

Those are all crimes of the Japanese military during WWII, ya know.

And, they were officially approved policies of that military, too.

Comparing what we did to Japan to what they did to China is, I think, not a good comparison.

The Japanese were savage in their treatment of the Chinese and Koreans, and anyone else unlucky enough to come under their control.

While one might reasonable feel some sympathy for the innocent Japanese who died at our hands, (I know I do), I have some trouble blaming America for being too harsh on that society in order to stop its war machine.

But as to feeling much sympathy for the society that spawned such savage armies and sent them into the world?

Frankly, the Japanese society was damned lucky editec was not the POTUS at the time.

Likewise Germany society was damned lucky editec was not the POTUS, too.

I'd have executed every officer and every high ranking office holder in both of those nations.

Yeah, that's right.. every one of them would have been hanged.

I'd have done everything in my power to exterminate forever the societies which did what both those viles things each of them did during WWII.



There would still be people who were of German or Japanese decent, of course, but those cultures would have been systematically destroyed if I'd been in charge.

Still another reason I'm not either a good christian or a good liberal.

 

[JBeukema]

... and thus begins the slip into moral relativism

Look, it was the best option wed had for limiting the deaths of both japs and Americans

 

[BaltimoreBob]

I know how we can stop war.

Say Iran attacks Iraq
then you exterminate all Iranians.
Kinda Cruel
But I Bet IT WORKS.

Baltimore Bob

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

MORON ALERT. What should we have done, just let Japan have what ever they wanted? Good God you are ignorant.

Yes, clearly, I'm the one being ignorant.

In fact, you are. You clearly do not have an understanding of war and/or how to wage one. The results of people thinking like you? Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. The results of people knowing what they are doing? WW's I&II, the Spanish -American War, the First Gulf War.

I assure you that no war is a result of people thinking like me. Had it been left up to people like me there would have been no Spanish-American War, World War 1, Korea, Vietnam, first Gulf War, Iraq, and hopefully no World War 2 or Afghanistan. I keep repeating myself in this thread because I see absolutely no justification for dropping a nuclear bomb on innocent people. You can say we dropped it on military targets and that the civilians were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, but let's get serious. We did it with full knowledge that thousands of civilians were going to die.

 

[BaltimoreBob]

Quote: I keep repeating myself in this thread because I see absolutely
no justification for dropping a nuclear bomb on innocent people.

No one in Japan was Innocent.
They were all Mass Murders.
Every single one of them.
They allowed the Heads of State
to do what they wanted to do.

Allowing your leaders to do Bad things
makes you a C0ward.

Baltimore Bob

 

[elvis]

Yes, clearly, I'm the one being ignorant.

In fact, you are. You clearly do not have an understanding of war and/or how to wage one. The results of people thinking like you? Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. The results of people knowing what they are doing? WW's I&II, the Spanish -American War, the First Gulf War.

I assure you that no war is a result of people thinking like me. Had it been left up to people like me there would have been no Spanish-American War, World War 1, Korea, Vietnam, first Gulf War, Iraq, and hopefully no World War 2 or Afghanistan. I keep repeating myself in this thread because I see absolutely no justification for dropping a nuclear bomb on innocent people. You can say we dropped it on military targets and that the civilians were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, but let's get serious. We did it with full knowledge that thousands of civilians were going to die.

So you would rather America lose 1 million lives and millions more Japs than the few hundred thousand killed by the big bombs. How humanitarian of you.

 

[elvis]

Quote: I keep repeating myself in this thread because I see absolutely
no justification for dropping a nuclear bomb on innocent people.

No one in Japan was Innocent.
They were all Mass Murders.
Every single one of them.
They allowed the Heads of State
to do what they wanted to do.

Allowing your leaders to do Bad things
makes you a C0ward.

Baltimore Bob

Fuck off, coward.

 

[Citizen]

Yes, clearly, I'm the one being ignorant.

In fact, you are. You clearly do not have an understanding of war and/or how to wage one. The results of people thinking like you? Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. The results of people knowing what they are doing? WW's I&II, the Spanish -American War, the First Gulf War.

I assure you that no war is a result of people thinking like me. Had it been left up to people like me there would have been no Spanish-American War, World War 1, Korea, Vietnam, first Gulf War, Iraq, and hopefully no World War 2 or Afghanistan. I keep repeating myself in this thread because I see absolutely no justification for dropping a nuclear bomb on innocent people. You can say we dropped it on military targets and that the civilians were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, but let's get serious. We did it with full knowledge that thousands of civilians were going to die.

Just in case you did not know, the bombs were dropped to save American lives that would have been lost if we had invaded Japan, in lieu of bombing them into submission.

If civilians of an enemy country have to die to save the lives of American soldiers, so be it.

 

[BaltimoreBob]

Japan and Germany attacked other Countries.
It would have been best if both races were exterminated.

No WWIII with either Japan or Germany.
Sounds like a Win-Win situation.

The people of Japan and the people of Germany
are responsible for their countries involvement in WAR.

Radical Baltimore Bob

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Here's an interesting article that quotes many people who did not feel the atomic bomb was necessary.

President Eisenhower, the Allied commander in Europe during World War II, recalled in 1963, as he did on several other occasions, that he had opposed using the atomic bomb on Japan during a July 1945 meeting with Secretary of War Henry Stimson: "I told him I was against it on two counts. First, the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing. Second, I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon."

Adm. William "Bull" Halsey, the tough and outspoken commander of the U.S. Third Fleet, which participated in the American offensive against the Japanese home islands in the final months of the war, publicly stated in 1946 that "the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment." The Japanese, he noted, had "put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before" the bomb was used.

Not Everyone Wanted To Bomb Hiroshima by Leo Maley III and Uday Mohan

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Quote: I keep repeating myself in this thread because I see absolutely
no justification for dropping a nuclear bomb on innocent people.

No one in Japan was Innocent.
They were all Mass Murders.
Every single one of them.
They allowed the Heads of State
to do what they wanted to do.

Allowing your leaders to do Bad things
makes you a C0ward.

Baltimore Bob

Well didn't you "allow" your leaders to send you to Vietnam? Does that make you a coward?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

In fact, you are. You clearly do not have an understanding of war and/or how to wage one. The results of people thinking like you? Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. The results of people knowing what they are doing? WW's I&II, the Spanish -American War, the First Gulf War.

I assure you that no war is a result of people thinking like me. Had it been left up to people like me there would have been no Spanish-American War, World War 1, Korea, Vietnam, first Gulf War, Iraq, and hopefully no World War 2 or Afghanistan. I keep repeating myself in this thread because I see absolutely no justification for dropping a nuclear bomb on innocent people. You can say we dropped it on military targets and that the civilians were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, but let's get serious. We did it with full knowledge that thousands of civilians were going to die.

So you would rather America lose 1 million lives and millions more Japs than the few hundred thousand killed by the big bombs. How humanitarian of you.

Thus, the rationale for the atomic bombings has come to rest on a single colossal fabrication, which has gained surprising currency: that they were necessary in order to save a half-million or more American lives. These, supposedly, are the lives that would have been lost in the planned invasion of Kyushu in December, then in the all-out invasion of Honshu the next year, if that was needed. But the worst-case scenario for a full-scale invasion of the Japanese home islands was forty-six thousand American lives lost. The ridiculously inflated figure of a half-million for the potential death toll – nearly twice the total of U.S. dead in all theaters in the Second World War – is now routinely repeated in high-school and college textbooks and bandied about by ignorant commentators. Unsurprisingly, the prize for sheer fatuousness on this score goes to President George H.W. Bush, who claimed in 1991 that dropping the bomb "spared millions of American lives."

Hiroshima and Nagasaki by Ralph Raico

 

[AkronGuy]

Another thing to consider is this, we can all look back and say "that was the wrong thing to do" or "that was the right thing to do". But you know what ? We weren't in their shoes, they didn't have the option we have of looking back. They had to make the decision they had based on what options they had at the time. People also don't figure in the intimidation factor that the atomic bombs had upon the rest of the world and their role in our current world role today. IMO , it was the most logical thing to do.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Here's an interesting article that quotes many people who did not feel the atomic bomb was necessary.

President Eisenhower, the Allied commander in Europe during World War II, recalled in 1963, as he did on several other occasions, that he had opposed using the atomic bomb on Japan during a July 1945 meeting with Secretary of War Henry Stimson: "I told him I was against it on two counts. First, the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing. Second, I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon."

Adm. William "Bull" Halsey, the tough and outspoken commander of the U.S. Third Fleet, which participated in the American offensive against the Japanese home islands in the final months of the war, publicly stated in 1946 that "the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment." The Japanese, he noted, had "put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before" the bomb was used.

Not Everyone Wanted To Bomb Hiroshima by Leo Maley III and Uday Mohan

I provided a link to SOURCE documents. Read them. Japan had no intention of surrendering EXCEPT under their terms. Those terms were that we just stop the war and go away.

 

[BaltimoreBob]

I don't hold people my age responsible for Vietnam.
I was born in 1950. I was a KID.
You can't hold KIds responsible for Vietnam.
I hold those born before 1950 responsible.
I don't hold other Vietnam or Korean Vets responsible.

I hold the general public responsible.
Mass protesting and there is no war.

One of the Good Guys
Baltimore Bob