USA Strives for Mediocrity in S&T

Speak for yourself. Scientists in private industry get paid well. I should know.

Scientists in private industry get paid well? Compared to who? Lawyers? MBAs? Doctors? Accountants? Marketing Managers? Bankers?

Scientist & engineers are the bottom of the barrel in the professional world.

Yes, they may get paid well as compared to cashiers, but that's about it.

The reason is simple - they are part of the productive end of any business, not part of the sales or administration. They are considered to be an 'expense' - not a money maker like salesman.

So in the name of holding down expenses, salaries for scientists and engineers are held down - they are also the first to get layed off.

Not when you compare the composite salaries of all engineering graduates against all graduates in other fields. Top lawyers, bankers, MBAs and accountants make big bucks. Most however, wallow in mediocrity.
Engineers and scientists are available in fewer numbers and demand a higher salary on average.

Engineers & Scientist make a bit more right out of college, but that's about it. They don't compare, top level or otherwise with lawyers, bankers, business people or doctors...not even close.

What makes yu think that their are fewer engineers and scientists that lawyers, bankers, MBAs etc.? Possibly, fewer doctoral level Scientists and Engineers, but certainly there are plenty of bachelors & masters level. (I know engineers that get doctorate get doctorates in philosophy...weird but true).

The reason why there are so few Scoentists and engineers with doctorates is that IT DOESN'T PAY. Most will choose MBAs or go to business school rather than pursue doctorates in science or engineering...

After all every scientist or engineer has a boss with an MBA.
 
If we were to look at how advance we are in terms of technology applied to society, we are alreay left behind.

The leader in technology applied to society is South Korea. Do you understand how embarrassing that is?

Half a nation is beating us!

By the way, they have led the world for almost decade!! Translation: IT is Bush Fault!!:lol:
 
Frankly, for all the hard work and frustration you have to deal with in being a scientist, as many of your experiments don't work, the publish or perish standards of success in science, and the low salaries for years and years of hard work, no wonder people don't strive to be scientists.
...

Speak for yourself. Scientists in private industry get paid well. I should know.

Scientists in private industry get paid well? Compared to who? Lawyers? MBAs? Doctors? Accountants? Marketing Managers? Bankers?

Scientist & engineers are the bottom of the barrel in the professional world.

Yes, they may get paid well as compared to cashiers, but that's about it.

The reason is simple - they are part of the productive end of any business, not part of the sales or administration. They are considered to be an 'expense' - not a money maker like salesman.

So in the name of holding down expenses, salaries for scientists and engineers are held down - they are also the first to get layed off.

Yeah, the actual research scientists in industry, not running a department, make as much as most people start out with bachelors degrees, and they had to spend an additional 4-6 years in grad school and likely same amount doing postdoctoral work, making garbage pay. Plus, many companies want "industry experience", with many unwilling to train academic scientists in industry.

Sure, you can get paid well in the long run, but nothing compared to many other fields. hence why I'm getting the hell out of research
 
Speak for yourself. Scientists in private industry get paid well. I should know.

Scientists in private industry get paid well? Compared to who? Lawyers? MBAs? Doctors? Accountants? Marketing Managers? Bankers?

Scientist & engineers are the bottom of the barrel in the professional world.

Yes, they may get paid well as compared to cashiers, but that's about it.

The reason is simple - they are part of the productive end of any business, not part of the sales or administration. They are considered to be an 'expense' - not a money maker like salesman.

So in the name of holding down expenses, salaries for scientists and engineers are held down - they are also the first to get layed off.

Not when you compare the composite salaries of all engineering graduates against all graduates in other fields. Top lawyers, bankers, MBAs and accountants make big bucks. Most however, wallow in mediocrity.
Engineers and scientists are available in fewer numbers and demand a higher salary on average.
not true at all, PhDs in science are just being pumped out of universities for their cheap labor and flooding the market. THere are tons of PhDs, many that end up leaving the sciences for frustration in finding jobs. Much turnover in the industry leads to many experienced people looking for jobs, making it really hard for new PhDs to get into the field. I'm sure once you are in its good, but really hard to get in
 
Why not?

Their thinking in Washington D.C. or should say, the "Obama Regime", is already through their redistribution of wealth agenda, are lowering the living standards of millions of hard working Americans, why not take the rest of what's left of the country down the toilet too?

What's wrong with these idiots running our lives today? What's more important why are we tolerating this bullshit for so long? The guy, (Obama), in my opinion, is doing more damage to this country than any of our so called enemies have been able to do for decades! No wonder the LOVE this guy.

Personally I think after another two years of this Obama regime, Mediocrity will be a higher standard than where we'll be in ranking throughout the world. I ask again, WHO is he working for, US or THEM? I really hope I am wrong, for all our sakes.
:cuckoo::cuckoo:

Another problem in this country, people who believe that whatever they want to believe is true, regardless of any facts. That they think making an argument is spouting bullshit without backing anything up with facts, if they even know what the difference between facts and opinion are

Yada Yada Yada, More Merd from Dr' Gregg, another 'genius' know-it-all who knows all the answers, all the facts, and all the inside chatter from the depths of Washington politics and cannot see the forest for the trees.

Dr.Gregg Quote:
Another problem in this country, people who believe that whatever they want to believe is true, regardless of any facts.
WTF's with that :lol: What a profound statement of nonsense. Did you look before you type at all? Blanket statements of total bullshit. :tongue:

Okay genius, wallow in your delusions, and go apply for a job with Obama's team, if your not already employed by them in some manner. Don't bug me with the 'THEY' bullshit, who are THEY? Am I one of the 'THEY', then say so directly.

God, I love coming in here! :lol:
Okay Doc, we're all dumb, and your the only smart one in USMB, sorry! Gotta go, I have baskets to weave and meds to take, "coming Nurse Ratchet"! :lol:

:lol:Another example of a person who can't make a rational argument :lol:
 
Why not?

Their thinking in Washington D.C. or should say, the "Obama Regime", is already through their redistribution of wealth agenda, are lowering the living standards of millions of hard working Americans, why not take the rest of what's left of the country down the toilet too?

What's wrong with these idiots running our lives today? What's more important why are we tolerating this bullshit for so long? The guy, (Obama), in my opinion, is doing more damage to this country than any of our so called enemies have been able to do for decades! No wonder the LOVE this guy.

Personally I think after another two years of this Obama regime, Mediocrity will be a higher standard than where we'll be in ranking throughout the world. I ask again, WHO is he working for, US or THEM? I really hope I am wrong, for all our sakes.

Seems to me people like you should have been working toward lifting up our academic standing in the world LONG before it became an issue so serious that it will take decades of catching up, if at all. That you now blame Obama for even this is ludicrous.

OH maggie maggie, I not only blame Obama, I blame all the priors in charge and their advisers also, so puleeeease. Now, Obama and his mighty team have buried us all in a sea debt, and the people who are going to be paying for this debt decades to come are being graduated without the ability in many many cases to read, write or do simple math, the very people we need to pay for this continuing nightmare implemented TOO FAST are those in schools today and some out in some cases dumber than when they went in.

OH, BTW, I have helped a few over the years, as I am sure you have and many in here have,in addition to my own kids, specially those interested in computers, electronics and radiation physics. I, in some tiny way, have contributed to some lives over the years and that few still isn't enough. We pay through the nose in school taxes, hire the 'best' teachers, I should say instructors, and still they pass on many brain dead attendees, but now I am kicking back and striving to stay alive for a few more years and enjoying the chaos of USMB and it's intelligent members.

With all due respect to you of course. :eusa_angel:
 
Scientists in private industry get paid well? Compared to who? Lawyers? MBAs? Doctors? Accountants? Marketing Managers? Bankers?

Scientist & engineers are the bottom of the barrel in the professional world.

Yes, they may get paid well as compared to cashiers, but that's about it.

The reason is simple - they are part of the productive end of any business, not part of the sales or administration. They are considered to be an 'expense' - not a money maker like salesman.

So in the name of holding down expenses, salaries for scientists and engineers are held down - they are also the first to get layed off.

Not when you compare the composite salaries of all engineering graduates against all graduates in other fields. Top lawyers, bankers, MBAs and accountants make big bucks. Most however, wallow in mediocrity.
Engineers and scientists are available in fewer numbers and demand a higher salary on average.

Engineers & Scientist make a bit more right out of college, but that's about it. They don't compare, top level or otherwise with lawyers, bankers, business people or doctors...not even close.

What makes yu think that their are fewer engineers and scientists that lawyers, bankers, MBAs etc.? Possibly, fewer doctoral level Scientists and Engineers, but certainly there are plenty of bachelors & masters level. (I know engineers that get doctorate get doctorates in philosophy...weird but true).

The reason why there are so few Scoentists and engineers with doctorates is that IT DOESN'T PAY. Most will choose MBAs or go to business school rather than pursue doctorates in science or engineering...

After all every scientist or engineer has a boss with an MBA.


Engineers do make good money, their are lots of jobs available. Research PhD scientists in the biological fields is what I speak of as making poor money compared to their years of hard work and highly technical training.
 
Now we will pay the Russians several $Million per space trip to visit a Space Station we built. Mediocrity is already here. Pretty sad stuff.
 
:cuckoo::cuckoo:

Another problem in this country, people who believe that whatever they want to believe is true, regardless of any facts. That they think making an argument is spouting bullshit without backing anything up with facts, if they even know what the difference between facts and opinion are

Yada Yada Yada, More Merd from Dr' Gregg, another 'genius' know-it-all who knows all the answers, all the facts, and all the inside chatter from the depths of Washington politics and cannot see the forest for the trees.

Dr.Gregg Quote:
Another problem in this country, people who believe that whatever they want to believe is true, regardless of any facts.
WTF's with that :lol: What a profound statement of nonsense. Did you look before you type at all? Blanket statements of total bullshit. :tongue:

Okay genius, wallow in your delusions, and go apply for a job with Obama's team, if your not already employed by them in some manner. Don't bug me with the 'THEY' bullshit, who are THEY? Am I one of the 'THEY', then say so directly.

God, I love coming in here! :lol:
Okay Doc, we're all dumb, and your the only smart one in USMB, sorry! Gotta go, I have baskets to weave and meds to take, "coming Nurse Ratchet"! :lol:

Doesn't say much for your own comprehension capabilities. I believe he took several words to simply describe gullible-itis, which is rampant in the right wing camp these days.

Yes Maggie, I know...............:lol:
 
:cuckoo::cuckoo:

Another problem in this country, people who believe that whatever they want to believe is true, regardless of any facts. That they think making an argument is spouting bullshit without backing anything up with facts, if they even know what the difference between facts and opinion are

Yada Yada Yada, More Merd from Dr' Gregg, another 'genius' know-it-all who knows all the answers, all the facts, and all the inside chatter from the depths of Washington politics and cannot see the forest for the trees.

Dr.Gregg Quote:
Another problem in this country, people who believe that whatever they want to believe is true, regardless of any facts.
WTF's with that :lol: What a profound statement of nonsense. Did you look before you type at all? Blanket statements of total bullshit. :tongue:

Okay genius, wallow in your delusions, and go apply for a job with Obama's team, if your not already employed by them in some manner. Don't bug me with the 'THEY' bullshit, who are THEY? Am I one of the 'THEY', then say so directly.

God, I love coming in here! :lol:
Okay Doc, we're all dumb, and your the only smart one in USMB, sorry! Gotta go, I have baskets to weave and meds to take, "coming Nurse Ratchet"! :lol:

:lol:Another example of a person who can't make a rational argument :lol:

Thank you Doc, what's your next trick?
 
Paying the Russians to fly us to a Space Station we built is pretty absurd. Mediocrity is already here folks. It's going to get worse.
 
Frankly, for all the hard work and frustration you have to deal with in being a scientist, as many of your experiments don't work, the publish or perish standards of success in science, and the low salaries for years and years of hard work, no wonder people don't strive to be scientists.

And then you have so many peopel in this country who like fantasy over reality, and bash science at any chance they get, meanwhile benefitting from all the technologies science can bring.

We need to stop babying kids in school and making passing through primary school so easy, and stop complaining when school is hard and how much work kids need to do. In so many countries, many kids learn in HS what our kids don't learn until college. But we still have great universities though.

that means there will be many unable to pass, but we shouldn't dumb down the curriculum for those that struggle academically. Raise the standards

:clap2: :clap2: I could not agree with this more.

We live in a very good school district. A few years ago they 'revamped' the grading system and low and behold what used to be a "D" (70-72) has now become a "C". Know what a "D" is? 65-69. WTF??? My daughter (7th grade) was having trouble in the beginning of the year (translation: she decided to emulate her friend and just stopped doing her work. :rolleyes: The hammer and sickle came down on her; she's near honors now). Anyway her report card for the first quarter she got two 'C's and two 'D's. She bellyached about the 'D' being a passing grade. In no uncertain terms I told her I didn't give a damn that the school decided to lower the bar on the grades, in this house 70 and above is passing; 69 and below is failing. Period, end of discussion.

The lower they place the bar the dumber our kids get. I do not understand this way of thinking.
 
This Administration really is beginning to remind me of the Carter Administration. We are being demoralized more & more everyday under this Administration. This is not a good change for the nation. No more manned space flights while the Russians & Chinese are rapidly advancing in Space exploration? These are sad times for sure.
 
It looks like a lot of universities will need to cancel significant portions of their aerospace curricula, now.

not really, plenty of plane building companies, both commercial and private. Plenty of defense contractors still building new jets and planes and what not.
 
Ask any person who can't afford college, and since we have lost most of our manufacturing base, where s/he intends to find work. High schools no longer offer "shop" in order to prepare middle- to lower-income kids for the job market when they graduate. It is an ABSOLUTE truth that not all kids can be scientists, astronauts, presidents. AND THEY KNOW IT.

Our high school does. They offer shop, tech ed, fcs (fancy new age term for home ec lol). We also have the Vo Tech were the kids who are not necessarily college bound can go and learn. They offer about 15 different courses from auto repair, to drafting/CAD Technology/Design, HVAC, construction, culinary. My son (special needs) is going in the fall (1/2 day at the Vo Tech, 1/2 day at h.s.) for culinary. I don't know about other states/areas but all the schools in my county offer Vo Tech programs. Good stuff.
 
Engineers do make good money, their are lots of jobs available. Research PhD scientists in the biological fields is what I speak of as making poor money compared to their years of hard work and highly technical training.

Engineers get OK pay, but the field is getting tight. For low pay look at Physicists or Mathematicians. Unless they work at a university they get treated like second rate engineers, even when they have the ability to work interdisciplinary fields from the word go.

Fairly, Liberal Tarts degrees are almost useless, but the people I meet who have LT degrees tend to be pretty useless. Some even fail to be pretty.
 

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