USA Strives for Mediocrity in S&T

U.S. teens have weak practical math skills
Test finds Americans score as well as top foreign kids but lag in real-world applications
By Greg Toppo, USA TODAY

U.S. high school students match their peers in other nations when it comes to math skills. But ask them to apply those skills to real-world situations and things begin to look a bit bleak, a new study suggests.

The nation's 15-year-olds make a poor showing on a newly released international test of practical math applications, ranking 24th out of 29 industrialized nations, behind South Korea, Japan and most of Europe. U.S. students' scores were comparable to those in Poland, Hungary and Spain.

Results of the test, known as the Program for International Student Assessment, were released Monday by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, a group of industrialized nations. It's administered every three years, this time in 29 OECD nations and 10 others. This is the first time the test has included practical math applications.

U.S. Secretary of Education Rod Paige called the results "a blinking warning light" that shows the need to reform U.S. high schools. Most of the students tested were 10th-graders.

USA TODAY Education - Math, Science and Technology

Thank God for immigration.
 
Frankly, for all the hard work and frustration you have to deal with in being a scientist, as many of your experiments don't work, the publish or perish standards of success in science, and the low salaries for years and years of hard work, no wonder people don't strive to be scientists.
...

Speak for yourself. Scientists in private industry get paid well. I should know.

Scientists in private industry get paid well? Compared to who? Lawyers? MBAs? Doctors? Accountants? Marketing Managers? Bankers?

Scientist & engineers are the bottom of the barrel in the professional world.

Yes, they may get paid well as compared to cashiers, but that's about it.

The reason is simple - they are part of the productive end of any business, not part of the sales or administration. They are considered to be an 'expense' - not a money maker like salesman.

So in the name of holding down expenses, salaries for scientists and engineers are held down - they are also the first to get layed off.

I think I read recently that of all disciplines, one branch of engineering pays the highest in America on average for recent college graduates.
 
I think I read recently that of all disciplines, one branch of engineering pays the highest in America on average for recent college graduates.

Probably Electrical Engineering. For recent grads.
Wait a few years and the MBA's with good buttkissing skills move into the lead and never look back. Ditto those who went into politics and finally moved up enough to enjoy the fruits of their graft.
 
Last time I checked a University catalog of courses, the Aerospace Engineering department offered all the courses on lift and weight, thrust and drag, which are used to calculate plane performance numbers. EE is naturally useful in avionics, and ME or Chemical engineering are useful for structural integrity work, but the whole falls under Aero. Military work is not steady - contracts come and go, and the pay rate is no better than other fields; EE and computers are the best paid fields, but even they lag, in the long run, behind a degree in Law. MBA can be useful for someone with connections or the willingness to spend a decade or two kissing their bosses' posteriors, otherwise it entitles one to an underpaid lower management job for life.
That's why I said "some" of their curricula will need to be cancelled. Just as an aside, as an undergrad ChemE, structural integrity work was only incidental work for us.

Holy Cow! You're really a Super Star! You're a chemist,....
Yup, specifically organic chemist.
.... a scientist ....
Yup, both applied (chemical engineer) and basic (organic chemist)
.... with expertise on global warming,...
As I've never claimed that, nor have any of my friends, you are mistaken. But, I am a scientist - both applied and basic - with an expert level in chemistry. Obviously that bothers you and several other lefties.
... speak Latin fluently, ....
No one 'speaks Latin fluently', dear. It's a dead language. :eusa_shhh:
... a political guru, ...
I never said I was, but thank you for thinking so.
... and a plethora of other talents you've bragged about too numerous to recall. ....
I don't brag - neither here nor in person. I just state facts. Your inferiority complex translates those into something bizarre.
.... But I do have to wonder when you find time to actually WORK at one of your many disciplines when you've found time to post over 9,000 entries on this message board alone in a mere eight months. Just wunnerin'...
Lose your inferiority complex and I bet your obsession with my personal life would disappear.
 
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I think I read recently that of all disciplines, one branch of engineering pays the highest in America on average for recent college graduates.

Probably Electrical Engineering. For recent grads. ....
I think you are right. It used to be ChemEs for some time, but the market changed.
.... Wait a few years and the MBA's with good buttkissing skills move into the lead and never look back. Ditto those who went into politics and finally moved up enough to enjoy the fruits of their graft.
Some disciplines make more out of the starting gate, but others catch up and surpass those salaries after some time.
 
My favorite subject in college.
:woohoo: You know, not many physicians think that. I am thrilled that you do. :thup:

I am just a mediocre medical student for the time being, but I loved it. I had a great professor.
TBH, of the disciplines in chemistry, organics tend to be the most 'normal' (that's a relative term) and we are quite enthusiastic. Enthusiasm can be contagious to students.

Anyway, mediocre is often subjective. I am confident that you will be a great physician eventually. You have a level head.
 
Our administration strives for mediocrity. I am not surprised, either.
White House Science ‘Czar’ Tells Students: U.S. Can’t Expect to Be Number One in Science and Technology Forever
Monday, April 12, 2010
By Christopher Neefus

(CNSNews.com) – The Obama administration’s top science and technology official, who has argued for the economic de-development of America, warned science students last Friday that the United States cannot expect to be “number one” forever.

....
CNSNews.com - White House Science ?Czar? Tells Students: U.S. Can?t Expect to Be Number One in Science and Technology Forever

What 'leaders' tell folks not to aim for the top?

Apollo hero Armstrong condemns Obama space plan

(AFP) – 14 hours ago

WASHINGTON — Apollo 11 hero Neil Armstrong Tuesday lashed out at President Barack Obama's decision to axe NASA plans to return to the Moon, describing the move as "devastating" to the US space program.

....

"Without the skill and experience that actual spacecraft operation provides, the USA is far too likely to be on a long downhill slide to mediocrity," they added in the letter.
AFP: Apollo hero Armstrong condemns Obama space plan

Even Armstrong, who is vehement about staying out of the press as much as possible, cannot keep silent about the trends.

We don't mind being 37th in terms of healthy care outcomes.

Why should we mind being number 2 in science?

Besides, is it up to the government to advance science?

I thought that the private sector was taking care of that for us.

Where does it say in the constitution that the USA has to be a leader in science?

The double standard that you people have about what government should and should not be doing is rather obvious.
 
Our administration strives for mediocrity. I am not surprised, either.
White House Science ‘Czar’ Tells Students: U.S. Can’t Expect to Be Number One in Science and Technology Forever
Monday, April 12, 2010
By Christopher Neefus

(CNSNews.com) – The Obama administration’s top science and technology official, who has argued for the economic de-development of America, warned science students last Friday that the United States cannot expect to be “number one” forever.

....
CNSNews.com - White House Science ?Czar? Tells Students: U.S. Can?t Expect to Be Number One in Science and Technology Forever

What 'leaders' tell folks not to aim for the top?

Apollo hero Armstrong condemns Obama space plan

(AFP) – 14 hours ago

WASHINGTON — Apollo 11 hero Neil Armstrong Tuesday lashed out at President Barack Obama's decision to axe NASA plans to return to the Moon, describing the move as "devastating" to the US space program.

....

"Without the skill and experience that actual spacecraft operation provides, the USA is far too likely to be on a long downhill slide to mediocrity," they added in the letter.
AFP: Apollo hero Armstrong condemns Obama space plan

Even Armstrong, who is vehement about staying out of the press as much as possible, cannot keep silent about the trends.

We don't mind being 37th in terms of healthy care outcomes.

Why should we mind being number 2 in science?

Besides, is it up to the government to advance science?

I thought that the private sector was taking care of that for us.

Where does it say in the constitution that the USA has to be a leader in science?

The double standard that you people have about what government should and should not be doing is rather obvious.
Where did I say the Constitution mandates anything about science? Where did I say that the private sector was 'taking care of that'?

Speaking for myself, one who appreciates fiscal responsibility but who is also very much in favor of government funding of the sciences, you are barking up the wrong tree with me. No double standard at all with me. Science spending is a priority always in my book. I am of the Vannevar Bush school of thought that we need to spend on science.
 
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We don't mind being 37th in terms of healthy care outcomes.

Why should we mind being number 2 in science?

Besides, is it up to the government to advance science?
First we are not #37 in healthy care outcomes. We are only placed #37 by a particular ranking, and the group which gave that ranking ALSO noted that socialization REDUCED the quality of medical care in a nation.
If you want to be healthier, exercise more and eat less.

We should mind being #2 in science because we already have trouble keeping jobs (primarily because the socialism we already have makes us less competitive) and only by having a technological edge do we keep jobs in the manufacturing sector.

Advancing science IS mentioned in the constitution as an admirable goal. Do you need a linkey to read it?
 
Yup, specifically organic chemist.

Cool! A good friend of mine is a professor of organic chemistry. He has recently patented a light treatment for cancer. I'm hoping he gets rich so I can borrow a lot of money from him!

Likely a caged chemotherapeutc agent. Cool stuff. A bit of a hassle to synthesize because one needs to take light precautions, but certainly doable.
 
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