USA impotent against pirates ?

[Mr. Shaman]

do yall really want to discuss this...then lets do it...

first the ships are in international waters and have very little protection...the ships are not set up to protect themselves..they prefer to insure the crew and cargo and let the insurance pay the ransoms....

.....And, keep on dumping......​

"In 1991, the government of Somalia collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since – and the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas."

Bu$ine$$ As Usual​

 

[Mini 14]

Just as I suspected.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Just as I suspected.

Douchebag ?

 

[Mini 14]

 

[Skull Pilot]

Somali has no Government. There is no way to bring pressure on a non existent Government to stop the pirates. Leaving just two other options.

One option would be to sink any unidentified ships in the region on sight. That of course has many draw backs to it. But would eventually deprive the Somali pirates of the larger craft they need to get into some of the shipping lanes.

The second option would be to deploy troops onto the coast of Somali seizing all ports and small villages, burning all shipping and destroying all port facilities of any size. This also has many draw backs.

What the world is doing right now is half assed patrolling the region for Pirates and reacting after the fact.

There is of course a third option I did not mention. The world could send an armed force ( not peace keepers, fighting troops) to Somali pick a man to run said Country and then use said fighting force to pacify the Country. This would be a multi year process taking probably 10 to 15 years to establish a semi stable Government. I assume NO ONE, right or left wants to do this so left it out as an original option.

Obama is no more responsible for the loss of ships and lives in the region then any other world power. No one has the desire , will power or citizen support to do either of the viable options.

If tomorrow Obama announced he was doing either of these options the support would evaporate the minute some supposed innocent ship or village got gunned down.

you don't put pressure on the government.

Instead you sink every pirate vessel attacking another ship and you do so with all hands on board just like they did in the days of yore.

The pirates will either get the hint that it's too dangerous and too expensive to be pirates or they'll all die trying.

Either way problem solved.

 

[Douger]

Korea. Fail.
Nam.Fail.
Iran-Contra Clusterfuck. Fail.
Desert Storm. didn't finish the job then.
Iraq. Epic Fail.
Afghaniland . See above
War on drugs. Fail.
War on poverty. Fail.
War with Mexico, Iran or anybody, or anything, else. Certain Failure......but very, VERY, profitable for your masters.
War on YOU. 100% success, as planned.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Stopping the piracy may be the simplest problem to solve in the past 50 years.

1. Close the waters to ALL non-commercial traffic, for as long as it takes
2. Start killing pirates and sinking ships, all collateral damage is acceptable due to Step #1
3. Continue killing and sinking until piracy stops
4. When the pirates come to negotiate a cease fire, promising to stop their piracy, kill them
5. Open waters back to non-commercial navigation, and continue patrolling, killing any pirates you come across, regardless of collateral damage

(Cue the Republican War Anthem!!!)

​

You don't have a solution, do you?

Yeah......whatta toughie.....quite the conundrum....

Ya' got a neighbor....a-block-away....who's got a really nice garden....produce that YOU want....and, what-the-Hell....that neighbor's (only) Black, anyhow......

You start goin'-over and rippin'-off his garden. Next, you start using his yard as a dump.

In retaliation....he starts takin' YOUR stuff....your gas-grill....then, your wheelbarrow....then, your yard-tools....then, your lawn-furniture.....

What's a good-"conservative" To DO??!!!!

Oh.....right.....call the cops (on your neighbor).

 

[rhodescholar]

Look I like to see a pirate(except me of course) get shot just like the next guy...but a lot of these people have been warned and the dumb asses go in those waters anyway. These Somoli's are as dumb as human beings can be. They aren't attacking America. They are attacking anything they think they can commandeer and will get their dumb asses a ransom. Trying to make this political is almost as stupid as they are. As for the Bush's and Reagan...the Somalis have been murdering people and taking hostages in those waters for the last two hundred years. Blaming it on Obama is asinine. You might as well blame Obama for every bank robbery where there is a shooting. Obama has made misjudgments. This wasn't one of them.

#1-the somalis have nothing to do with the Barbary pirates

#2-the scumbags responsible for destroying their waters off their coast, by first overfishing to the point there are no fish alive in their waters - and by dumping nuclear waste in them as well - are the Europeans and Chinese.

For doing those 2 things, I wouldn't care if the Somalians started mass murdering both of those groups by the thousands.

 

[xsited1]

How many pirates did the Bush's and Reagan kill?

They didn't have to kill any. Somalia didn't mess with the US while they were President. And as far as the 4 US hostages killed recently:

Pirates kill four U.S. hostages near Somalia | Reuters

I place the blame squarely on Obama. His inaction cost them their lives.

dont be such a fucking idiot...the pirates are holding a total of around 600 hostages right now...do you want them all killed...the hostages are from all different countries

fucking conservatives bitch like hell about being the world's policemen then bitch like hell when we are not taking that role....fucking hell all you people do is bitch without facts

I'm called a conservative again.

I'm just pointing out the facts as they pertain to Somalian Pirates kidnapping Americans. Sorry you got in such a tizzy over it. Nice projection, though. That's something I warned Madeline and others not to do, but that didn't stop them.

 

[rhodescholar]

Somali has no Government. There is no way to bring pressure on a non existent Government to stop the pirates. Leaving just two other options. One option would be to sink any unidentified ships in the region on sight. That of course has many draw backs to it. But would eventually deprive the Somali pirates of the larger craft they need to get into some of the shipping lanes.The second option would be to deploy troops onto the coast of Somali seizing all ports and small villages, burning all shipping and destroying all port facilities of any size. This also has many draw backs. Either way problem solved.

The only solution is for the Europeans and Chinese, who combined to destroy the Somalian' entire way of life - fishing - to send them billions and rebuild the country. Until the Somalians have some way of feeding themselves/making a living as they did for thousands of years - by fishing in their coastal waters, they will have no options but to strike out.

If someone dumped nuclear fucking waste in my waters after completely taking all of the fish, you'd better damn well believe I'd be rather hostile.

 

[Spoonman]

So now we do nothing in the face of the rights of somali pirates
The USA dealt with pirates before why cant we do it now?

The First Barbary War (1801–1805), also known as the Barbary Coast War or the Tripolitan War, was the first of two wars fought between the United States of America and the North African Muslim states known collectively as the Barbary States. These were the independent Sultanate of Morocco and Tripoli, which was a quasi-independent entity nominally belonging to the Ottoman Empire.

because back then liberals weren't invented yet.

 

[Charles_Main]

Why aren't we doing something about crime in Sydney, Austrailia?

FUCKING Obama, get off your lazy ass and clean up crime in Sydney!!!

What a completely pointless and rather Childish thing to say. Comparing not enforcing laws in international waters on the open sea, to not enforcing the laws of a sovereign nations on their soil.

Way to add absolutely nothing of Value to the discussion, again.

 

[Charles_Main]

Somali has no Government. There is no way to bring pressure on a non existent Government to stop the pirates. Leaving just two other options. One option would be to sink any unidentified ships in the region on sight. That of course has many draw backs to it. But would eventually deprive the Somali pirates of the larger craft they need to get into some of the shipping lanes.The second option would be to deploy troops onto the coast of Somali seizing all ports and small villages, burning all shipping and destroying all port facilities of any size. This also has many draw backs. Either way problem solved.

The only solution is for the Europeans and Chinese, who combined to destroy the Somalian' entire way of life - fishing - to send them billions and rebuild the country. Until the Somalians have some way of feeding themselves/making a living as they did for thousands of years - by fishing in their coastal waters, they will have no options but to strike out.

If someone dumped nuclear fucking waste in my waters after completely taking all of the fish, you'd better damn well believe I'd be rather hostile.

Is that just another wild unsubstantiated claim or do have any actual Evidence that someone dumped Nuclear waste off the coast of Somalia?

 

[Charles_Main]

The Answer to this problem is a proactive Protection against further pirate attacks. Arm Merchant Vessels with the ability to defend themselves, and let the follow the long standing laws of governing Vessels in international waters, and freaking kill the Pirates when they attempt to Hijack their ships.

Nothing a little weapons training, and some 50 cals and small anti ship missiles can't fix.

 

[Charles_Main]

Oh.....right.....call the cops (on your neighbor).

[/CENTER]

Who are the cops on the high seas?

the US navy that's who.

 

[Agit8r]

It is worth noting that the Barbary Wars were fought against belligerent governments rather than loosely associated bands of thugs. There is no central authority to defeat and sign peace treaties with and pay ransom to

First Barbary War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kyzr]

This is so dumb. All that needs to happen is for the ships' insurers to pay Blackwater mercenaries to ride shotgun on the ships that pass thru the area. After a few missing pirates, they should get the hint. Let shipping alone....piracy doesn't pay.

 

[The Gadfly]

do yall really want to discuss this...then lets do it...

first the ships are in international waters and have very little protection...the ships are not set up to protect themselves..they prefer to insure the crew and cargo and let the insurance pay the ransoms....

.....And, keep on dumping......​

"In 1991, the government of Somalia collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since – and the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas."

Bu$ine$$ As Usual​

Are you finished? Good! Here's my response: Boo frigging hoo! We didn't trash their country; the locals did a fine job of that all by themselves. We tried to feed them-what did we get in return? Bullets and RPGs. That place is an armed camp, where even women and kids are acting as active combatants, getting high on khat, and killing each other when they aren't killing foreigners. Innocents my arse; when you are carrying a weapon or explosives, when you actively work as a lookout or other gopher for armed combatants, you ARE a combatant! The locals have exactly the lawless, predatory society they want. You want to do "nation building" in a cesspool? Fine, but first, you have to clean out the vermin.

In every one of those coastal cities and villages, the entire population is living off the profits of brigandage, kidnapping and murder, and living quite large, I may add. They trade with pirates, they marry pirates, they shelter pirates, and those who can, aspire to BE pirates. The whole place is like Port Royal, Jamaica in the seventeenth century; a den of thieves, whore and hustlers, without an honest soul to be found.

Now, it's time to clean out this sewer of affront to civilization. Here's how we might do it.

First, get enough satellite and aerial surveillance over the area to track every small boat with visible arms (that would be most of them), to their mother ships. Put submarines on the tail of suspected mother ships, at random. When the armed pirate craft rendezvous with these, sink them immediately, without warning. Carry an armed Marine or SEAL team to dispatch any survivors in the water. Sink the bodies. Wouldn't want the lying media to have any corpses of "poor Somali fishermen" to photograph, now would we? Just an oil slick, a little debris, and shark food.

Second, ever heard of "Q-Ships"? These were disguised commercial vessels with navy crews, with heavy deck guns hidden behind panels or under canvas. These were used quite effectively against German commerce raiders and U-boats during WW II. It should not be too much trouble to fit out a few that look like attractive targets, and put them in the area- a five inch deck gun will outrange an RPG, every time. When approached by small boats, drop the disguise, shoot first, ask questions later. Take no prisoners.

Third, put those towns and docks out of business-permanently. There will be no "collateral damage"; any and all vehicles, docks, boats, buildings, fuel supplies and surrounding personnel will be considered hostile targets. No need for precision ordnance; carpet bomb the coast for about 72 hours, or until there's nothing left but bomb craters. Like the rest of these operations, this should be done without any warning or preliminaries; the idea is to bomb the hole while the rats are still inside it. The strikes should be targeted to interdict movement away from the coast, so that as few as possible can escape. Mopping up what little that's left should be a simple, brief affair after that. Any captured enemy combatants should be given a brief (five minutes will suffice) trial, followed by a quick hanging. The corpses should be tarred and hung in chains along whatever is left of their operating areas. Note: these personnel are not part of any legitimate military force, nation or belligerent party to a conflict; therefore, they have no standing under the Geneva conventions, so there is no need for observing any niceties. Those here and elsewhere who believe otherwise, should be told to actually READ said Conventions.

With a little luck, we should have "plausible deniability" for everything but the coastal airstrike; it's a big ocean, and the sort of craft the pirates use sink every day.

Harsh? You bet it is! This is real fighting against armed hostiles, not tiddlywinks! If it's armed and not friendly, then it's a target. You bleeding hearts who want to cry over the fate of these boils on the arse of humanity ought to remember that there's not one of them who wouldn't cut your throat in a heartbeat, and laugh about it. If it's too ugly for your squeamish little souls, keep your damn reporters away, or turn off the news broadcasts.

 

[rhodescholar]

Is that just another wild unsubstantiated claim or do have any actual Evidence that someone dumped Nuclear waste off the coast of Somalia?

Unfortunately, it is true:

Johann Hari: You are being lied to about pirates - Johann Hari, Commentators - The Independent

'Toxic waste' behind Somali piracy - Africa - Al Jazeera English

""Somalia has been used as a dumping ground for hazardous waste starting in the early 1990s, and continuing through the civil war there," he said.

"And the waste is many different kinds. There is uranium radioactive waste. There is lead, and heavy metals like cadmium and mercury. There is also industrial waste, and there are hospital wastes, chemical wastes – you name it."

 

[Charles_Main]

Is that just another wild unsubstantiated claim or do have any actual Evidence that someone dumped Nuclear waste off the coast of Somalia?

Unfortunately, it is true:

Johann Hari: You are being lied to about pirates - Johann Hari, Commentators - The Independent

'Toxic waste' behind Somali piracy - Africa - Al Jazeera English

""Somalia has been used as a dumping ground for hazardous waste starting in the early 1990s, and continuing through the civil war there," he said.

"And the waste is many different kinds. There is uranium radioactive waste. There is lead, and heavy metals like cadmium and mercury. There is also industrial waste, and there are hospital wastes, chemical wastes – you name it."

Some Shaky sources there. Not convinced.