US Values or National Interests?

[Darkwind]

Is the Fourth about celebrating US values like human rights, or has the US "consistently chosen national interests over rights?"

"Michael Barnett is a professor of international affairs and political science at George Washington University. He is the author, most recently, of 'The Empire of Humanity: A History of Humanitarianism.'

"(CNN) -- Independence Day is a celebration not just of America's independence, but also of the values that are important to our nation, like liberty, democracy and human rights..."

The professor begins his short essay by dismissing President Carter's concern that the US should be a little less "self-congratulatory and a little more self-critical" when it comes to evaluating the "moral leadership" it provides to the rest of the world.

"Even in better days, the United States has often made rotten compromises in the name of security. Simply put, the United States has championed human rights when it sees no damage to its security and economic interests. But when human rights are perceived as potentially detrimental to national interests, the United States has consistently chosen interests over values."

Simple enough?
If not, consider spending Labor Day in Afghanistan or Honduras.

Is America the moral leader in the world? - CNN.com

Here is the problem.

People seem to think we need a 'moral' government. In fact, we need an 'amoral' government.

One that does only what it is authorized to do, and not one iota more. A government that will attack the enemy ruthlessly when they threaten us, but remain absolutely neutral with regards to the reasons they attacked.

We need a government that does not consider people as things to be manipulate for the purpose of gaining more power, or to provide entitlements.

We need a government that is run by people, but blind to the manipulation of people.

 

[georgephillip]

Amoral in the sense of acts or people?

"(of acts) being neither moral nor immoral
(of people) not believing in or caring for morality and immorality

amoral - Wiktionary

 

[Darkwind]

Amoral in the sense of acts or people?

"(of acts) being neither moral nor immoral
(of people) not believing in or caring for morality and immorality

amoral - Wiktionary

Both in fact.

The act of government should not be moral or amoral...It should strictly follow the law, as it is written.

The government is not a 'person' therefore, it cannot believe in anything other than the responsibility it has to carry out its obligation as defined by the law.

Government is a tool. Nothing more.

 

[georgephillip]

Amoral in the sense of acts or people?

"(of acts) being neither moral nor immoral
(of people) not believing in or caring for morality and immorality

amoral - Wiktionary

Both in fact.

The act of government should not be moral or immoral...It should strictly follow the law, as it is written.

The government is not a 'person' therefore, it cannot believe in anything other than the responsibility it has to carry out its obligation as defined by the law.

Government is a tool. Nothing more.

The laws you want government to follow are written by people (or maybe lobbyists)
Should laws be amoral?

 

[uscitizen]

Laws should be logical not emotional.

 

[georgephillip]

Should laws try to accomplish the greatest good for the greatest number of people?

 

[bripat9643]

Is the Fourth about celebrating US values like human rights, or has the US "consistently chosen national interests over rights?"

"Michael Barnett is a professor of international affairs and political science at George Washington University. He is the author, most recently, of 'The Empire of Humanity: A History of Humanitarianism.'

"(CNN) -- Independence Day is a celebration not just of America's independence, but also of the values that are important to our nation, like liberty, democracy and human rights..."

Bullshit. the Founding Fathers despised democracy, and the "human rights" bullshit was totally alien to them. In liberal lexicon, "human rights" consist of things like "rights" to education, free medical care, housing and even "dignity." The Founding Fathers would have laughed if anyone told any of these things are rights.

Your political science professor is full of it.

 

[georgephillip]

Founders or Funders?

How did the "Funding Fathers" feel about women voting?
Chattel slavery?
Genocide?

In fact, Boozer, education. health care, housing, in short, subsistence, is a human right.
Only fascist drunkards enslaved to the private creation of money at interest fail to see that.
Keep sucking up to the rich, and your children will piss on your grave.
The sooner the better.

 

[Darkwind]

When you demand a moral government, you have to ask yourself, 'Who's Morals?"

The Left scream at the top of their lungs that the right is shoving morals down their throats.

The Right scream at the top of their lungs that the left is shoving morals down their throats.

The fence sitters are screaming at the top of their lungs that both sides are shoving morals down their throat.

Everyone wants a moral government, but ONLY if it is their morals.

I say, we need an amoral government. One that is blind to morals, and is merely a tool for enforcing law.

This is not to say that laws can be moral. However, laws are not people.

Those people who are elected use their personal morals to force the rest of us to behave the way THEY decide. I hear a bunch of noise about how the representatives are just doing what we want them to do, but that has not been true for a century or more. The ruling class have the power, have rigged the game, and now force their morals down upon the rest of us. This is one of many reasons (not the only reason) why this country is foundering. It is, however, a big reason.

Government should be amoral.

 

[Darkwind]

No.

Laws should not be used for social engineering.

 

[bripat9643]

In fact, Boozer, education. health care, housing, in short, subsistence, is a human right.

In fact, no they aren't. No one has a right to "subsistence" at someone else's expense.

 

[initforme]

I dont "celebrate" the fourth for anything more than a day off to spend with family. Anyone who says they do otherwise is a liar.

 

[bripat9643]

I dont "celebrate" the fourth for anything more than a day off to spend with family. Anyone who says they do otherwise is a liar.

America hating leftists like you just can't imagine that anyone might actually love their country.

 

[georgephillip]

In fact, Boozer, education. health care, housing, in short, subsistence, is a human right.

In fact, no they aren't. No one has a right to "subsistence" at someone else's expense.

Your subsistence was paid for before you were born.
Have you ever heard of "practical Christianity?"

"Douglas disagreed with classical economists who divided the factors of production into only land, labour and capital. While Douglas did not deny these factors in production, he believed the 'cultural inheritance of society' was the primary factor.

"Cultural inheritance is defined as the knowledge, technique and processes that have been handed down to us incrementally from the origins of civilization."

Social Credit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[GoneBezerk]

So who saved Europe and Asia in World War 2????

Who rebuilt Europe and Asia after World War 2?

Who stole countries during and after World War 2?

Did the US steal Iraq? Afghanistan? South Korea?

The US fights evil then lets the people come back and run their own country. We don't take over countries like the Russians, the heroes of the left.

We even sacrficed thousands of Americans to defend Vietnam from themselves. Today those bastards are asking for our help to prevent China from dominating them, the same China that propped them up in the 1960s.

These endless bullshit rants by the left against the US shows you are incompetent assholes that in reality should be handed over to our enemies so they can kill you however they wish.

 

[georgephillip]

So who saved Europe and Asia in World War 2????

Who rebuilt Europe and Asia after World War 2?

Who stole countries during and after World War 2?

Did the US steal Iraq? Afghanistan? South Korea?

The US fights evil then lets the people come back and run their own country. We don't take over countries like the Russians, the heroes of the left.

We even sacrficed thousands of Americans to defend Vietnam from themselves. Today those bastards are asking for our help to prevent China from dominating them, the same China that propped them up in the 1960s.

These endless bullshit rants by the left against the US shows you are incompetent assholes that in reality should be handed over to our enemies so they can kill you however they wish.

The Russians saved Europe, losing 20,000,000 of their citizens in the process. In some parts of Russian every third building was destroyed fighting Wall Street's new best friend, Hitler.

The Marshall Plan rebuilt parts of Europe with much of its $13 billion price tag borne by the US taxpayer AFTER billions of dollars "belonging" to rich Europeans flooded into Wall Street banks.

The Russians stole countries after WWII just like we stole South Korea and South Vietnam.
Our puppets are in the process of looting Afghanistan and Iraq as we speak.

How does one defend a people from themselves?
The Vietnamese, North and South, were ready to vote in 1954.
Why did Ike deny them the same right he was championing for the white people in Eastern Europe?
BTW, we sacrificed millions of Vietnamese, Cambodian, and Laotian lives in the process

"These endless bullshit rants by the left" are your history.
If you can't handle the truth, watch more TV.