US v. OPEC

[danielpalos]

See the far left is against the US from being energy independent..

No, that is just the far right projecting. Some on left want the equivalent to a Manhattan Project, for fusion (an energy with a future).

Only the right wants to waste our tax money on fossil fuels.

So yes the far left wants to have the problem of dealing with a by product that has a half life of 5000 years that is stored in containers rated to last only a 120 years..

Yep that makes sense..

Confusing fission with fusion doesn't make any more sense.

Why not get a clue and a Cause?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Back in the day OPEC wanted oil prices to be as high as possible. Therefore they could make loads of money with less costs to boost their profits...

I realize this will make little sense to you, but all businesses want to maximize profits. In the case of most OPEC states, oil is their major export. For them lower oil prices means serious domestic troubles.

I don't see how that factors into this. Companies that get oil out of the ground still have to sell their oil. Whether it be in the US or outside, it's still for sale...

Didn't Mr. H just inform you that US oil cannot be exported? That US oil can only be sold here and the price is determined by domestic supply (regardless of source) and demand?
Are you always stuck on stupid?

Coalition of evil. Why? Because it has an agenda that isn't aligned with the US's agenda, so the US media goes off telling everyone how evil they are and how much they need to be invaded.
Sorry, you've been duped by the media. You'll believe anything they tell you.

So you believe an international price-fixing oil cartel is not an evil cabal?
Mr. H was wrong ... you really are every bit as stupid as your posts make you seem.

What I do know is what OPEC is up to.
They're trying to put a lot of US oil production out of business.
Why do you think OPEC wanted high prices before, and now low prices?

Really? OPEC wants low oil prices? Many OPEC members are in deep financial trouble thanks to the shale induced oil glut. If we shut our operations at $40/bbl we will reopen them @ $60/bbl. The oil will still be there.

The US stands behind Saudi Arabia, being psychopaths I'm not sure, but they're certainly not in line with US foreign policy at all, because the US wants to get OPEC countries on its side.
If it can't get them by being nice, then it bears its teeth, like in Iraq, Iran, Libya and Venezuela, the four counties who didn't take to the US's "nice" side.

Saudi Arabia OFFICIALLY sides with the US, but puts in place policies which aren't to the US's liking. The US can't do much, it needs Saudi Arabia as an ally. Saudi Arabia knows this and plays the game. The Saudis need the US too, but know the US needs them more.

So from one side of your monumentally ignorant mouth you claim the US "bears [sic] its teeth" to force OPEC states to cooperate and from the other side you claim "the US can't do much" to force that cooperation.

Frankly, if you tell me you only post here drunk you would at least have an excuse for that which rolls off your keyboard.

Yes, for OPEC countries where oil is their main product, they want higher oil prices.

Hence why when OPEC control more of the market, they have more market power, they can therefore control oil prices. Current policy is "take a hit for a few years and hope that certain oil production in countries like the US declines so their market share will increase".

You can argue whether this is a good policy or not, however it IS OPEC's policy right now.

Yes, I read what Mr H said, and I was responding that it doesn't matter whether the US sells its oil outside of the US or inside. Which bit don't you understand? Perhaps you don't understand that I'm making the point that not being able to sell oil abroad makes no difference. The US imports half of all oil used, sell US oil abroad doesn't change the price of oil at home, it would simply mean the US has to import more oil. Why export oil to then import oil? That doesn't make sense.

As for your insult, you're getting close to being put on ignore. I don't do insulters. Actually, i just saw another insult. Fuck off, I don't do insulters. You clearly want to make a point, can't you make a point without insulting? Really?

 

[SAYIT]

Back in the day OPEC wanted oil prices to be as high as possible. Therefore they could make loads of money with less costs to boost their profits...

I realize this will make little sense to you, but all businesses want to maximize profits. In the case of most OPEC states, oil is their major export. For them lower oil prices means serious domestic troubles.

I don't see how that factors into this. Companies that get oil out of the ground still have to sell their oil. Whether it be in the US or outside, it's still for sale...

Didn't Mr. H just inform you that US oil cannot be exported? That US oil can only be sold here and the price is determined by domestic supply (regardless of source) and demand?
Are you always stuck on stupid?

Coalition of evil. Why? Because it has an agenda that isn't aligned with the US's agenda, so the US media goes off telling everyone how evil they are and how much they need to be invaded.
Sorry, you've been duped by the media. You'll believe anything they tell you.

So you believe an international price-fixing oil cartel is not an evil cabal?
Mr. H was wrong ... you really are every bit as stupid as your posts make you seem.

What I do know is what OPEC is up to.
They're trying to put a lot of US oil production out of business.
Why do you think OPEC wanted high prices before, and now low prices?

Really? OPEC wants low oil prices? Many OPEC members are in deep financial trouble thanks to the shale induced oil glut. If we shut our operations at $40/bbl we will reopen them @ $60/bbl. The oil will still be there.

The US stands behind Saudi Arabia, being psychopaths I'm not sure, but they're certainly not in line with US foreign policy at all, because the US wants to get OPEC countries on its side.
If it can't get them by being nice, then it bears its teeth, like in Iraq, Iran, Libya and Venezuela, the four counties who didn't take to the US's "nice" side.

Saudi Arabia OFFICIALLY sides with the US, but puts in place policies which aren't to the US's liking. The US can't do much, it needs Saudi Arabia as an ally. Saudi Arabia knows this and plays the game. The Saudis need the US too, but know the US needs them more.

So from one side of your monumentally ignorant mouth you claim the US "bears [sic] its teeth" to force OPEC states to cooperate and from the other side you claim "the US can't do much" to force that cooperation.

Frankly, if you tell me you only post here drunk you would at least have an excuse for that which rolls off your keyboard.

Yes, for OPEC countries where oil is their main product, they want higher oil prices.

Hence why when OPEC control more of the market, they have more market power, they can therefore control oil prices. Current policy is "take a hit for a few years and hope that certain oil production in countries like the US declines so their market share will increase".

You can argue whether this is a good policy or not, however it IS OPEC's policy right now.

Yes, I read what Mr H said, and I was responding that it doesn't matter whether the US sells its oil outside of the US or inside. Which bit don't you understand? Perhaps you don't understand that I'm making the point that not being able to sell oil abroad makes no difference. The US imports half of all oil used, sell US oil abroad doesn't change the price of oil at home, it would simply mean the US has to import more oil. Why export oil to then import oil? That doesn't make sense.

As for your insult, you're getting close to being put on ignore. I don't do insulters. Actually, i just saw another insult. Fuck off, I don't do insulters. You clearly want to make a point, can't you make a point without insulting? Really?

I don't insult thoughtful, knowledgeable, intelligent posters. You always strike me as determined to prove you are none of them.

US OPEC imports have declined significantly (chart below) as increased American (US, Canada & Mexico) oil and gas production has left foreign producers - many of whom depend on their oil to "fuel" their economies - scrambling to find customers. They have not maintained production levels in order to flood the market but rather in a desperate attempt to maintain some revenue stream despite falling prices. OPEC not only no longer sets the price for oil globally, the members are increasingly undercutting each other.
Rather than the evil cartel's price-fixing we have a supply and demand market.
Ain't free markets great?

 

[Mr. H.]

There is no U.S. vs OPEC because we are not , by law, allowed to export our crude oil.

I don't see how that factors into this. Companies that get oil out of the ground still have to sell their oil. Whether it be in the US or outside, it's still for sale. If they sell it at $80 a barrel and the Saudis are $40 a barrel, Americas are not going to buy US oil, they're going to buy Saudi oil.

So they sell at the market price, and they can't afford to do this. This is the issue, this is why OPEC is increasing production, they want the US shale to go out of business.

It doesn't work like that. I'm tempted to call you stupid, but I won't. You're just under educated and/or ill-informed.

The best way to learn first-hand about this industry is to drill a hole in the ground for yourself.

I've been doing it for 38 years and believe me, you simply do not know about that which you are attempting to discuss here.

No, not under educated, not stupid, not ill informed at all. You don't need to be condescending in an attempt to put yourself on the upper hand in a debate.

If you think I'm wrong you're more than welcome to say WHY. That would be the educated decision, it might show that you are well informed too. But you choose to just show off your supposed CV at me, which makes me wonder.

What I do know is what OPEC is up to.

They're trying to put a lot of US oil production out of business.

Why do you think OPEC wanted high prices before, and now low prices?

I've tried engaging folks on these topics many times, and invariably they fall back on calling me a "mouth-piece" and "paid shill".

Yes, OPEC is doing its part to bring down our industry but so is Obama. He's already threatened to veto a lifting of the crude export ban. He more than OPEC wants to see us fail. Fuck him.

Again, if you want to know the true workings of this industry then go drill a hole in the ground.

To be honest I don't see how you're blaming Obama.

Bush allowed the country to produce too much oil bringing oil prices down, not Obama. Obama probably sees the US still importing oil.

So, the US saw an increase in production from about 5,000 barrels a day to close to 7,000 barrels a day, and is still importing more than 8,000 barrels a day.
Why would you exports when more than half of your oil is coming in from outside?

At present you can see the US producing slightly more than it's importing. But again. It's still 50/50, maybe it's changed slightly recently, but I see no reason why the US needs to export oil.

As for drilling holes being able to tell me the international state of affairs, is like saying that a grunt on the ground could tell you the inner workings of a General's mind. I doubt it very much.

Crude prices hit $8/barrel during the Clinton administration. Not only could he have given a flying fuck, he allowed foreign countries to dump yet more crude on our country at prices below their cost. That's illegal.

But there wasn't much of anything legal bout Bill or his wife. Was there?

 

[frigidweirdo]

I don't see how that factors into this. Companies that get oil out of the ground still have to sell their oil. Whether it be in the US or outside, it's still for sale. If they sell it at $80 a barrel and the Saudis are $40 a barrel, Americas are not going to buy US oil, they're going to buy Saudi oil.

So they sell at the market price, and they can't afford to do this. This is the issue, this is why OPEC is increasing production, they want the US shale to go out of business.

It doesn't work like that. I'm tempted to call you stupid, but I won't. You're just under educated and/or ill-informed.

The best way to learn first-hand about this industry is to drill a hole in the ground for yourself.

I've been doing it for 38 years and believe me, you simply do not know about that which you are attempting to discuss here.

No, not under educated, not stupid, not ill informed at all. You don't need to be condescending in an attempt to put yourself on the upper hand in a debate.

If you think I'm wrong you're more than welcome to say WHY. That would be the educated decision, it might show that you are well informed too. But you choose to just show off your supposed CV at me, which makes me wonder.

What I do know is what OPEC is up to.

They're trying to put a lot of US oil production out of business.

Why do you think OPEC wanted high prices before, and now low prices?

I've tried engaging folks on these topics many times, and invariably they fall back on calling me a "mouth-piece" and "paid shill".

Yes, OPEC is doing its part to bring down our industry but so is Obama. He's already threatened to veto a lifting of the crude export ban. He more than OPEC wants to see us fail. Fuck him.

Again, if you want to know the true workings of this industry then go drill a hole in the ground.

To be honest I don't see how you're blaming Obama.

Bush allowed the country to produce too much oil bringing oil prices down, not Obama. Obama probably sees the US still importing oil.

So, the US saw an increase in production from about 5,000 barrels a day to close to 7,000 barrels a day, and is still importing more than 8,000 barrels a day.
Why would you exports when more than half of your oil is coming in from outside?

At present you can see the US producing slightly more than it's importing. But again. It's still 50/50, maybe it's changed slightly recently, but I see no reason why the US needs to export oil.

As for drilling holes being able to tell me the international state of affairs, is like saying that a grunt on the ground could tell you the inner workings of a General's mind. I doubt it very much.

Crude prices hit $8/barrel during the Clinton administration. Not only could he have given a flying fuck, he allowed foreign countries to dump yet more crude on our country at prices below their cost. That's illegal.

But there wasn't much of anything legal bout Bill or his wife. Was there?

Well I'm not sure what you're getting out. Clinton was the politicians politician, everything was about how he looked. His wife is different, less charismatic, smarter, but still a politician's politician.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I don't insult thoughtful, knowledgeable, intelligent posters. You always strike me as determined to prove you are none of them.

Sounds like you're saying that "thoughtful, knowledgeable, intelligent posters" are just people who agree with you.

US OPEC imports have declined significantly (chart below) as increased American (US, Canada & Mexico) oil and gas production has left foreign producers - many of whom depend on their oil to "fuel" their economies - scrambling to find customers. They have not maintained production levels in order to flood the market but rather in a desperate attempt to maintain some revenue stream despite falling prices. OPEC not only no longer sets the price for oil globally, the members are increasingly undercutting each other.
Rather than the evil cartel's price-fixing we have a supply and demand market.
Ain't free markets great?

First point in my unintelligent, unknowledgeable post.

OPEC oil production has been RISING.

Saudi Oil Output Rising Amid Fight for Market Share

"Saudi Arabia is boosting oil production, pursuing its policy to maintain market share as prices fall."

Why is Saudi Arabia using oil as a weapon? - BBC News

"
Why is Saudi Arabia using oil as a weapon?"

"Saudi Arabia is playing politics with oil, forcing Opec to maintain its current production levels at 30m barrels per day, to force down the price."

"It is a game of high-stakes poker and in the long run will cause the Saudis some harm, but that is not where their immediate thoughts lie."

"
But recently, as the US upped its production, it would have been reasonable to assume that Saudi would have correspondingly cut surplus supply to maintain a healthy balance sheet.

But instead Riyadh has done the opposite."

Saudi oil production. It's higher than it's been in decades.

The US might be reducing imports. But this isn't about the US. The US still imports HALF of all the oil it uses. So the US can only produce half of what it needs.

You're saying the Saudis are not flooding the market (actually it's the US flooding the market) because they want to reduce prices to put pressure on US oil (contrary to what just about every major news outlet says, I quoted the BBC just now and have quoted many others before) but because they want to make more money for internal issues.

Yes, they have internal issues. Like I quotes the BBC, it's a game of russian roulette. Personally I'd say a game of Chicken. But they believe they can win it, and many news articles are saying they're surprised some of the US oil interests are still producing oil at all. They are fighting it out with the Saudis.

For the Saudis they know if they can reduce the US oil production and gain a larger market share, then they can then control more and increase prices and make more profits.

Yes, OPEC isn't as strong as it could be. Why? Because the US makes sure it isn't.

The Coup d'etat against Chavez was a coup against the one man who was bring OPEC together. It didn't work.
Taking out the anti-American Iraqi regime weakened OPEC.
Taking out the anti-American Libyan regime weakened OPEC.

The Saudis and Iranians hate each other, but they'd work together for OPEC if it were strong. But with Iran seeing problems at home and pumping out oil because of sanctions, the US imposed, and the Saudis backed, part of the reason the Saudis are reducing oil prices is to get at the Iranians too. This isn't a single issue policy.


So what you see here is A) the US policy of weakening OPEC. This was done through the Iraq war (denied, of course, by the right) and through sanctions on Venezuela and Iran, and trying to depose leaders who hate the US through coups and supporting rebels and bombing etc and B) the Saudis using their muscle to get what they want and C) US oil policy not being particularly coherent other than to undermine others, and possibly get lower oil prices even if this hurts local producers.

But I did make the point that the US doesn't need to export oil, seeing as it can only product half of what it needs. You didn't reply to that.

 

[SAYIT]

I don't insult thoughtful, knowledgeable, intelligent posters. You always strike me as determined to prove you are none of them.

Sounds like you're saying that "thoughtful, knowledgeable, intelligent posters" are just people who agree with you.

US OPEC imports have declined significantly (chart below) as increased American (US, Canada & Mexico) oil and gas production has left foreign producers - many of whom depend on their oil to "fuel" their economies - scrambling to find customers. They have not maintained production levels in order to flood the market but rather in a desperate attempt to maintain some revenue stream despite falling prices. OPEC not only no longer sets the price for oil globally, the members are increasingly undercutting each other.
Rather than the evil cartel's price-fixing we have a supply and demand market.
Ain't free markets great?

First point in my unintelligent, unknowledgeable post...

OPEC oil production has been RISING.

Saudi oil production. It's higher than it's been in decades.

The US might be reducing imports. But this isn't about the US. The US still imports HALF of all the oil it uses. So the US can only produce half of what it needs..

Thoughtful, intelligent, knowledgeable people use actual facts to form their opinions. The chart above clearly shows we do not import half but rather 1/3 of our oil needs - mostly from Canada and Mexico and we currently pump enough from the ground to cover all our needs. Saudi Arabia - like all the countries that depend on oil to fuel their economies - must pump more to maintain the revenues necessary to stay afloat.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I don't insult thoughtful, knowledgeable, intelligent posters. You always strike me as determined to prove you are none of them.

Sounds like you're saying that "thoughtful, knowledgeable, intelligent posters" are just people who agree with you.

US OPEC imports have declined significantly (chart below) as increased American (US, Canada & Mexico) oil and gas production has left foreign producers - many of whom depend on their oil to "fuel" their economies - scrambling to find customers. They have not maintained production levels in order to flood the market but rather in a desperate attempt to maintain some revenue stream despite falling prices. OPEC not only no longer sets the price for oil globally, the members are increasingly undercutting each other.
Rather than the evil cartel's price-fixing we have a supply and demand market.
Ain't free markets great?

First point in my unintelligent, unknowledgeable post...

OPEC oil production has been RISING.

Saudi oil production. It's higher than it's been in decades.

The US might be reducing imports. But this isn't about the US. The US still imports HALF of all the oil it uses. So the US can only produce half of what it needs..

Thoughtful, intelligent, knowledgeable people use actual facts to form their opinions. The chart above clearly shows we do not import half but rather 1/3 of our oil needs - mostly from Canada and Mexico and we currently pump enough from the ground to cover all our needs. Saudi Arabia - like all the countries that depend on oil to fuel their economies - must pump more to maintain the revenues necessary to stay afloat.

Things are changing. It depends when your chart is from. As the US economy gets stronger the US will use more oil, for example. This from 2014 shows 50/50.

However getting pedantic about statistics isn't really the aim of this, is it? It doesn't matter if the US imports 1/3 1/4 1/2 of imports. The point I was referring to was that the US can't sell oil abroad. Why would the US need to sell oil abroad when it CANNOT produce enough oil for domestic use?

But while we're being pedantic about facts, and you're claiming to be thoughtful, knowledgeable and all that stuff

Your claim that most comes from Canada and Mexico, well, Mexico is FOURTH on the list of countries selling to the US. The Saudis and Venezuelans are higher up that list. Oh, well, you didn't get that did you?

How'd you like them apples?

The Saudis might be getting more money from pumping more. However you've ignored what a LOT of commentators on this have been saying. You stick your head under the ground and pretend you're more knowledgeable that these guys.

Saudi Oil Output Rising Amid Fight for Market Share

Watch the video.

Saudi Oil Output Rising Amid Fight for Market Share

"Saudi Arabia is quietly telling the oil market it would be comfortable with much lower oil prices for an extended period, a sharp shift in policy that may be aimed at slowing the expansion of rival producers including those in the U.S. shale patch."

Saudi Arabia oil: What next? - BBC News

"It also appeared to be willing to accept the lower price due to the pressure it puts on higher cost competitors, notably the growing shale oil business in the US."

Saudi Arabia bets its future on 'Berlin or Bust' oil strategy

"
World's largest oil exporter is forcing prices lower to win back market share but the high-risk strategy will test the house of Saud like never before"

"Oil equals political power and influence for Saudi Arabia and a seat at the table of the world’s most powerful nations at the G20. Despite the colossal risks, something had to be done to reverse the tilt towards high-cost production coming from the US and elsewhere to maintain Saudi Arabia’s dominance as the so called global “swing producer”."

 

[PoliticalChic]

It doesn't work like that. I'm tempted to call you stupid, but I won't. You're just under educated and/or ill-informed.

The best way to learn first-hand about this industry is to drill a hole in the ground for yourself.

I've been doing it for 38 years and believe me, you simply do not know about that which you are attempting to discuss here.

No, not under educated, not stupid, not ill informed at all. You don't need to be condescending in an attempt to put yourself on the upper hand in a debate.

If you think I'm wrong you're more than welcome to say WHY. That would be the educated decision, it might show that you are well informed too. But you choose to just show off your supposed CV at me, which makes me wonder.

What I do know is what OPEC is up to.

They're trying to put a lot of US oil production out of business.

Why do you think OPEC wanted high prices before, and now low prices?

I've tried engaging folks on these topics many times, and invariably they fall back on calling me a "mouth-piece" and "paid shill".

Yes, OPEC is doing its part to bring down our industry but so is Obama. He's already threatened to veto a lifting of the crude export ban. He more than OPEC wants to see us fail. Fuck him.

Again, if you want to know the true workings of this industry then go drill a hole in the ground.

To be honest I don't see how you're blaming Obama.

Bush allowed the country to produce too much oil bringing oil prices down, not Obama. Obama probably sees the US still importing oil.

So, the US saw an increase in production from about 5,000 barrels a day to close to 7,000 barrels a day, and is still importing more than 8,000 barrels a day.
Why would you exports when more than half of your oil is coming in from outside?

At present you can see the US producing slightly more than it's importing. But again. It's still 50/50, maybe it's changed slightly recently, but I see no reason why the US needs to export oil.

As for drilling holes being able to tell me the international state of affairs, is like saying that a grunt on the ground could tell you the inner workings of a General's mind. I doubt it very much.

Crude prices hit $8/barrel during the Clinton administration. Not only could he have given a flying fuck, he allowed foreign countries to dump yet more crude on our country at prices below their cost. That's illegal.

But there wasn't much of anything legal bout Bill or his wife. Was there?

Well I'm not sure what you're getting out. Clinton was the politicians politician, everything was about how he looked. His wife is different, less charismatic, smarter, but still a politician's politician.

As you have chosen to characterize Bill Clinton...the most popular elected Democrat....in those terms.....

...I wonder why you choose to overlook his being a racist and a rapist?

 

[paulitician]

Energy independence should be the goal. But our 'good buddies' the Saudis aren't helping much in that regard. They've reduced oil prices significantly enough to threaten the survival of American companies trying to achieve energy independence. And sadly, some Americans have helped them do it. Is it fair to call them traitors? You bet ya.

We can be energy independent, but it's probably gonna cost us a bit early on. We need to make sure American Companies don't go under. We need to prevent the Saudis and American traitors from destroying them.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No, not under educated, not stupid, not ill informed at all. You don't need to be condescending in an attempt to put yourself on the upper hand in a debate.

If you think I'm wrong you're more than welcome to say WHY. That would be the educated decision, it might show that you are well informed too. But you choose to just show off your supposed CV at me, which makes me wonder.

What I do know is what OPEC is up to.

They're trying to put a lot of US oil production out of business.

Why do you think OPEC wanted high prices before, and now low prices?

I've tried engaging folks on these topics many times, and invariably they fall back on calling me a "mouth-piece" and "paid shill".

Yes, OPEC is doing its part to bring down our industry but so is Obama. He's already threatened to veto a lifting of the crude export ban. He more than OPEC wants to see us fail. Fuck him.

Again, if you want to know the true workings of this industry then go drill a hole in the ground.

To be honest I don't see how you're blaming Obama.

Bush allowed the country to produce too much oil bringing oil prices down, not Obama. Obama probably sees the US still importing oil.

So, the US saw an increase in production from about 5,000 barrels a day to close to 7,000 barrels a day, and is still importing more than 8,000 barrels a day.
Why would you exports when more than half of your oil is coming in from outside?

At present you can see the US producing slightly more than it's importing. But again. It's still 50/50, maybe it's changed slightly recently, but I see no reason why the US needs to export oil.

As for drilling holes being able to tell me the international state of affairs, is like saying that a grunt on the ground could tell you the inner workings of a General's mind. I doubt it very much.

Crude prices hit $8/barrel during the Clinton administration. Not only could he have given a flying fuck, he allowed foreign countries to dump yet more crude on our country at prices below their cost. That's illegal.

But there wasn't much of anything legal bout Bill or his wife. Was there?

Well I'm not sure what you're getting out. Clinton was the politicians politician, everything was about how he looked. His wife is different, less charismatic, smarter, but still a politician's politician.

As you have chosen to characterize Bill Clinton...the most popular elected Democrat....in those terms.....

...I wonder why you choose to overlook his being a racist and a rapist?

This was the US v. OPEC. How the hell do you move things so far in so few posts as to make it about Bill Clinton?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Energy independence should be the goal. But our 'good buddies' the Saudis aren't helping much in that regard. They've reduced oil prices significantly enough to threaten the survival of American companies trying to achieve energy independence. And sadly, some Americans have helped them do it. Is it fair to call them traitors? You bet ya.

We can be energy independent, but it's probably gonna cost us a bit early on. We need to make sure American Companies don't go under. We need to prevent the Saudis and American traitors from destroying them.

Well the only way to keep US companies going is to have a person in charge of production so production can be lowered so oil prices will rise. But no one will do this. So, capitalism, some companies will go under.

 

[g5000]

OPEC has been irrelevant for decades.

 

[frigidweirdo]

OPEC has been irrelevant for decades.

Well it wasn't irrelevant in 2000 when Chavez decided to make it powerful again. The US pulled out all the stops to stop it being relevant.

I mean a coup d'etat, an invasion, sanctions and all of that against four OPEC countries they don't like.....

 

[bripat9643]

Back in the day OPEC wanted oil prices to be as high as possible. Therefore they could make loads of money with less costs to boost their profits.

In 2001 after 9/11 the US started to target OPEC countries.

One of the main reasons was the Hugo Chavez, newly ELECTED (not a dictator as the US press liked to report) leader of Venezuela, decided to use the strength of OPEC to push oil prices up to increase profits for OPEC countries.

This worked for a short time, then the Iraq War came. A coup d'etat helped by the US had almost succeeded in getting rid of Hugo Chavez, ironically the people who helped get rid of a DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED leader were supposedly working to promote democracy in the name of the US.

Oil prices went higher because of the war, but to be expected as oil production basically stopped. However it was a long term goal of getting Iraq to produce more oil. This plan has actually worked. Iraq is now producing more oil than it did under Saddam in his final decade.

However Bush's policy of disrupting OPEC to reduce oil prices was in contrast to his policy of getting more drilling in the US, fracking and offshore drilling, drilling in National Parks and so on. This would mean the US is less reliant on foreign oil and actually wants higher prices to make more profits.

In the period soon after Chavez's attempts at making OPEC stronger US policy was for lower oil prices.

Now oil prices are lower, is the US happy? Not at all.

US shale oil stares into abyss with Opec ready push it over

"
US shale oil stares into abyss with Opec ready push it over"

US shale oil needs prices to be at $60 a barrel to make a decent profit. Right now they're having major problems.

In 2001 there were four OPEC countries against the US, now Iraq and Libya are on the US's side, Iran and Venezuela are suffering economic woes, the former because of US sanctions designed to weaken the economy so they have to pump out more oil, and the latter because of incompetence of the govt.

So who is doing all this to hurt US oil production and essentially bankrupt it? Saudi Arabia, the US's ally, which proves with allies like this you don't need enemies.

Yeah, it's all a cunning sinister plot! Are you one of those kooks who ridicule opponents of the global warming con by calling them paranoid conspiratorialists?

 

[PoliticalChic]

I've tried engaging folks on these topics many times, and invariably they fall back on calling me a "mouth-piece" and "paid shill".

Yes, OPEC is doing its part to bring down our industry but so is Obama. He's already threatened to veto a lifting of the crude export ban. He more than OPEC wants to see us fail. Fuck him.

Again, if you want to know the true workings of this industry then go drill a hole in the ground.

To be honest I don't see how you're blaming Obama.

Bush allowed the country to produce too much oil bringing oil prices down, not Obama. Obama probably sees the US still importing oil.

So, the US saw an increase in production from about 5,000 barrels a day to close to 7,000 barrels a day, and is still importing more than 8,000 barrels a day.
Why would you exports when more than half of your oil is coming in from outside?

At present you can see the US producing slightly more than it's importing. But again. It's still 50/50, maybe it's changed slightly recently, but I see no reason why the US needs to export oil.

As for drilling holes being able to tell me the international state of affairs, is like saying that a grunt on the ground could tell you the inner workings of a General's mind. I doubt it very much.

Crude prices hit $8/barrel during the Clinton administration. Not only could he have given a flying fuck, he allowed foreign countries to dump yet more crude on our country at prices below their cost. That's illegal.

But there wasn't much of anything legal bout Bill or his wife. Was there?

Well I'm not sure what you're getting out. Clinton was the politicians politician, everything was about how he looked. His wife is different, less charismatic, smarter, but still a politician's politician.

As you have chosen to characterize Bill Clinton...the most popular elected Democrat....in those terms.....

...I wonder why you choose to overlook his being a racist and a rapist?

This was the US v. OPEC. How the hell do you move things so far in so few posts as to make it about Bill Clinton?

Hmmmm.....you wrote this: "Well I'm not sure what you're getting out. Clinton was the politicians politician,...."

You don't recognize who brought the rapist/racist up?

Short term memory loss?
There are medications that can help....speak to your doctor to see if they're right for you.

 

[paulitician]

Energy independence should be the goal. But our 'good buddies' the Saudis aren't helping much in that regard. They've reduced oil prices significantly enough to threaten the survival of American companies trying to achieve energy independence. And sadly, some Americans have helped them do it. Is it fair to call them traitors? You bet ya.

We can be energy independent, but it's probably gonna cost us a bit early on. We need to make sure American Companies don't go under. We need to prevent the Saudis and American traitors from destroying them.

Well the only way to keep US companies going is to have a person in charge of production so production can be lowered so oil prices will rise. But no one will do this. So, capitalism, some companies will go under.

Let's hope they survive. Energy Independence should be the goal.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I don't insult thoughtful, knowledgeable, intelligent posters. You always strike me as determined to prove you are none of them.

Sounds like you're saying that "thoughtful, knowledgeable, intelligent posters" are just people who agree with you.

US OPEC imports have declined significantly (chart below) as increased American (US, Canada & Mexico) oil and gas production has left foreign producers - many of whom depend on their oil to "fuel" their economies - scrambling to find customers. They have not maintained production levels in order to flood the market but rather in a desperate attempt to maintain some revenue stream despite falling prices. OPEC not only no longer sets the price for oil globally, the members are increasingly undercutting each other.
Rather than the evil cartel's price-fixing we have a supply and demand market.
Ain't free markets great?

First point in my unintelligent, unknowledgeable post...

OPEC oil production has been RISING.

Saudi oil production. It's higher than it's been in decades.

The US might be reducing imports. But this isn't about the US. The US still imports HALF of all the oil it uses. So the US can only produce half of what it needs..

Thoughtful, intelligent, knowledgeable people use actual facts to form their opinions. The chart above clearly shows we do not import half but rather 1/3 of our oil needs - mostly from Canada and Mexico and we currently pump enough from the ground to cover all our needs. Saudi Arabia - like all the countries that depend on oil to fuel their economies - must pump more to maintain the revenues necessary to stay afloat.

Things are changing. It depends when your chart is from. As the US economy gets stronger the US will use more oil, for example. This from 2014 shows 50/50.

However getting pedantic about statistics isn't really the aim of this, is it? It doesn't matter if the US imports 1/3 1/4 1/2 of imports. The point I was referring to was that the US can't sell oil abroad. Why would the US need to sell oil abroad when it CANNOT produce enough oil for domestic use?

But while we're being pedantic about facts, and you're claiming to be thoughtful, knowledgeable and all that stuff

Your claim that most comes from Canada and Mexico, well, Mexico is FOURTH on the list of countries selling to the US. The Saudis and Venezuelans are higher up that list. Oh, well, you didn't get that did you?

How'd you like them apples?

The Saudis might be getting more money from pumping more. However you've ignored what a LOT of commentators on this have been saying. You stick your head under the ground and pretend you're more knowledgeable that these guys.

Saudi Oil Output Rising Amid Fight for Market Share

Watch the video.

Saudi Oil Output Rising Amid Fight for Market Share

"Saudi Arabia is quietly telling the oil market it would be comfortable with much lower oil prices for an extended period, a sharp shift in policy that may be aimed at slowing the expansion of rival producers including those in the U.S. shale patch."

Saudi Arabia oil: What next? - BBC News

"It also appeared to be willing to accept the lower price due to the pressure it puts on higher cost competitors, notably the growing shale oil business in the US."

Saudi Arabia bets its future on 'Berlin or Bust' oil strategy

"
World's largest oil exporter is forcing prices lower to win back market share but the high-risk strategy will test the house of Saud like never before"

"Oil equals political power and influence for Saudi Arabia and a seat at the table of the world’s most powerful nations at the G20. Despite the colossal risks, something had to be done to reverse the tilt towards high-cost production coming from the US and elsewhere to maintain Saudi Arabia’s dominance as the so called global “swing producer”."

Saudis can operate below cost at 20 dollar a barrel....enough, they think, to push our rig count down so that prices will bounce back up to 80. Profits are very marginal for operators here at 40-50 a barrel. However, we're becoming more and more efficient at running profits on lower per barrel ie quicker drilling, less time on site, rig moves etc. Another cycle or two and we'll be exerting more control over the saudis. Their play is done. That's all they have. We haven't even touched one percent yet.

 

[frigidweirdo]

To be honest I don't see how you're blaming Obama.

Bush allowed the country to produce too much oil bringing oil prices down, not Obama. Obama probably sees the US still importing oil.

So, the US saw an increase in production from about 5,000 barrels a day to close to 7,000 barrels a day, and is still importing more than 8,000 barrels a day.
Why would you exports when more than half of your oil is coming in from outside?

At present you can see the US producing slightly more than it's importing. But again. It's still 50/50, maybe it's changed slightly recently, but I see no reason why the US needs to export oil.

As for drilling holes being able to tell me the international state of affairs, is like saying that a grunt on the ground could tell you the inner workings of a General's mind. I doubt it very much.

Crude prices hit $8/barrel during the Clinton administration. Not only could he have given a flying fuck, he allowed foreign countries to dump yet more crude on our country at prices below their cost. That's illegal.

But there wasn't much of anything legal bout Bill or his wife. Was there?

Well I'm not sure what you're getting out. Clinton was the politicians politician, everything was about how he looked. His wife is different, less charismatic, smarter, but still a politician's politician.

As you have chosen to characterize Bill Clinton...the most popular elected Democrat....in those terms.....

...I wonder why you choose to overlook his being a racist and a rapist?

This was the US v. OPEC. How the hell do you move things so far in so few posts as to make it about Bill Clinton?

Hmmmm.....you wrote this: "Well I'm not sure what you're getting out. Clinton was the politicians politician,...."

You don't recognize who brought the rapist/racist up?

Short term memory loss?
There are medications that can help....speak to your doctor to see if they're right for you.

Then if you read the previous post someone else brought up Clinton, and then you saw "clinton" and then you simply replied to this one word, and ignored the rest of the thread. Well done you.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Energy independence should be the goal. But our 'good buddies' the Saudis aren't helping much in that regard. They've reduced oil prices significantly enough to threaten the survival of American companies trying to achieve energy independence. And sadly, some Americans have helped them do it. Is it fair to call them traitors? You bet ya.

We can be energy independent, but it's probably gonna cost us a bit early on. We need to make sure American Companies don't go under. We need to prevent the Saudis and American traitors from destroying them.

Well the only way to keep US companies going is to have a person in charge of production so production can be lowered so oil prices will rise. But no one will do this. So, capitalism, some companies will go under.

Let's hope they survive. Energy Independence should be the goal.

Well that could be very difficult, seeing how much the US uses. A lot of other sources of energy would have to be used.