US Support of Israel

[dj defkawn]

Seriously people, if Israel didn't have the biblical significance that it does would anyone be quick to justify it's actions, from any of the other countries in the world that have commited acts right up there on a level with the Israeli military? It's funny because the same old the christian crusaders are rightous, and the Arabs are all simply evil rhetoric still plays out today from so long ago. Honestly the people who beleive that we should be supporting Israel with billions in military aid, to finance their operations, perhaps you should be more focussed on our own country which in case you forgot is facing one of the most severe financial downfalls in recent history, and I can think of a million uses for our hard earned tax dollars that are way more productive for our country then subsidizing the Israeli military.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Seriously people, if Israel didn't have the biblical significance that it does would anyone be quick to justify it's actions, from any of the other countries in the world that have commited acts right up there on a level with the Israeli military? It's funny because the same old the christian crusaders are rightous, and the Arabs are all simply evil rhetoric still plays out today from so long ago. Honestly the people who beleive that we should be supporting Israel with billions in military aid, to finance their operations, perhaps you should be more focussed on our own country which in case you forgot is facing one of the most severe financial downfalls in recent history, and I can think of a million uses for our hard earned tax dollars that are way more productive for our country then subsidizing the Israeli military.

Nearly all of our aid to Israel, about $2.5 billion, is in the form of credits to buy military hardware from US companies, that means $2.5 billion worth of American jobs and local, state and federal taxes. The US military is being accused of committing acts right up there with the Israeli military in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why wouldn't we want to continue our support of Israel since it also supports our American economy and our American military in Iraq and Afghanistan?

 

[Kalam]

Nearly all of our aid to Israel, about $2.5 billion, is in the form of credits to buy military hardware from US companies, that means $2.5 billion worth of American jobs and local, state and federal taxes.

That means 2.5 billion dollars worth of weapons for Israel at no cost to them.

 

[RodISHI]

Seriously do you really think that the US is going to dump their ally over a few disgruntled terrorist?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Nearly all of our aid to Israel, about $2.5 billion, is in the form of credits to buy military hardware from US companies, that means $2.5 billion worth of American jobs and local, state and federal taxes.

That means 2.5 billion dollars worth of weapons for Israel at no cost to them.

In fact, most of it is mandated by the terms of the peace treaty with Egypt that was signed by Jimmy Carter and is tied to the military aid given to Egypt. Since Israel manufactures and exports many of the items it uses these credits to buy from the US, some on the right in Israel argue that the government should buy them from Israeli companies to stimulate the economy. In the long run, they argue, this would make Israel stronger and more independent.

 

[dj defkawn]

So 2.5 billion dollars worth of military hardware at no cost to them, but at a cost of 2.5 billion dollars to the American tax payer lol? Call me a little crazy but something just doesn't seem right about that. So as the Israelis use those weapons to kick Palestinians off of their lands,and to settle the very lands with little more explanation then really "your land is mine because my god said so", and not to forget those same weapons used to decimate the civilian population of Gaza, and shell United Nations Warehouses, and schools. But hey at least support is being given to our nations economy right lol? So let's just look away as American taxpayers from the actions commited by our nation's so called ally with our 2.5 billion dollar handout given to them in the spirit of friendship, seriously wake uo people!!

 

[toomuchtime_]

So 2.5 billion dollars worth of military hardware at no cost to them, but at a cost of 2.5 billion dollars to the American tax payer lol? Call me a little crazy but something just doesn't seem right about that. So as the Israelis use those weapons to kick Palestinians off of their lands,and to settle the very lands with little more explanation then really "your land is mine because my god said so", and not to forget those same weapons used to decimate the civilian population of Gaza, and shell United Nations Warehouses, and schools. But hey at least support is being given to our nations economy right lol? So let's just look away as American taxpayers from the actions commited by our nation's so called ally with our 2.5 billion dollar handout given to them in the spirit of friendship, seriously wake uo people!!

The companies and workers who get that money pay local, state and federal taxes and all the companies they do business with also pay those taxes so the money continues to circulate through our economy without any of it leaving. So this represents a redistribution of federal money.

If you want to discuss what the Israelis do with the weapons, you have to be a little more specific than just drooling out slogans. For example, how is the recent operation in Gaza after eight years of rocket and mortar attacks different from the US invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11? How much death and destruction have we brought to civilian areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan in our efforts to go after al Qaeda and their supporters? Surely if the US is justified in spreading war over two countries, Afghanistan and Pakistan, and causing at least thousands of deaths, many of them innocent civilians, in response to one terror attack against our civilian population, Israel is justified in going after Hamas in response to thousands of terror attacks against its civilian population over a period of years.

Since Israel had very few US weapons until after the 1973 war and since all the land Israel now holds was captured before that war, just what land do you think was taken with US weapons?

 

[Kalam]

In fact, most of it is mandated by the terms of the peace treaty with Egypt that was signed by Jimmy Carter and is tied to the military aid given to Egypt. Since Israel manufactures and exports many of the items it uses these credits to buy from the US, some on the right in Israel argue that the government should buy them from Israeli companies to stimulate the economy. In the long run, they argue, this would make Israel stronger and more independent.

Then let them manufacture their own weapons. I'd love for them to become independent of us; Israel has no business receiving any aid from the United States.

 

[Kalam]

The companies and workers who get that money pay local, state and federal taxes and all the companies they do business with also pay those taxes so the money continues to circulate through our economy without any of it leaving. So this represents a redistribution of federal money.

Nonsense. No net economic benefit comes from giving handouts to Israel. All of the positives you've disingenuously attributed to our aid-giving are insignificant compared to the advantages that would come from keeping that money for ourselves or exchanging it fairly.

If you want to discuss what the Israelis do with the weapons, you have to be a little more specific than just drooling out slogans. For example, how is the recent operation in Gaza after eight years of rocket and mortar attacks different from the US invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11?

-America: 3,000 civilians killed in a few hours.
-Israel: <30 civilians killed over the span of 8 years.

-America: No direct control over Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan.
-Israel: Occupying power, imposer of a crippling and completely inhumane blockade, responsible for displacing the refugees that now populate Gaza, user of collective punishment.

-America: Attempting to rebuild and bring some semblance of stability to Afghanistan.
-Israel: Refuses to honor commitments regarding lifting the blockade, continues to make residents of Gaza suffer from acute insufficiencies of important medical supplies, job opportunities, and other needed resources.

How much death and destruction have we brought to civilian areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan in our efforts to go after al Qaeda and their supporters? Surely if the US is justified in spreading war over two countries, Afghanistan and Pakistan, and causing at least thousands of deaths, many of them innocent civilians, in response to one terror attack against our civilian population, Israel is justified in going after Hamas in response to thousands of terror attacks against its civilian population over a period of years.

When did we place blockades on Afghanistan and Pakistan? A blockade is an act of war.

Since Israel had very few US weapons until after the 1973 war and since all the land Israel now holds was captured before that war, just what land do you think was taken with US weapons?

We're funding a government that funds the theft of Palestinian land via settlements. We're indirectly funding the destruction of Gaza's civilian population as well. Israel should receive absolutely no support from the United States until it treats its population and those under its control justly.

 

[toomuchtime_]

In fact, most of it is mandated by the terms of the peace treaty with Egypt that was signed by Jimmy Carter and is tied to the military aid given to Egypt. Since Israel manufactures and exports many of the items it uses these credits to buy from the US, some on the right in Israel argue that the government should buy them from Israeli companies to stimulate the economy. In the long run, they argue, this would make Israel stronger and more independent.

Then let them manufacture their own weapons. I'd love for them to become independent of us; Israel has no business receiving any aid from the United States.

I doubt it will happen. Israel already spends more per capita on defense than any other country on Earth, about $2,400 for every man, woman, child in the country.

And it is unlikely the US would want them to. Without America's perceived influence over Israel, which Arabs seem to universally believe is based on this aid, the US would have much less influence in the ME. Why would anyone want to talk to the US about the Palestinians if they didn't believe the US had considerable influence over them by virtue of this aid?

 

[toomuchtime_]

The companies and workers who get that money pay local, state and federal taxes and all the companies they do business with also pay those taxes so the money continues to circulate through our economy without any of it leaving. So this represents a redistribution of federal money.

Nonsense. No net economic benefit comes from giving handouts to Israel. All of the positives you've disingenuously attributed to our aid-giving are insignificant compared to the advantages that would come from keeping that money for ourselves or exchanging it fairly.

If you want to discuss what the Israelis do with the weapons, you have to be a little more specific than just drooling out slogans. For example, how is the recent operation in Gaza after eight years of rocket and mortar attacks different from the US invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11?

-America: 3,000 civilians killed in a few hours.
-Israel: <30 civilians killed over the span of 8 years.

-America: No direct control over Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan.
-Israel: Occupying power, imposer of a crippling and completely inhumane blockade, responsible for displacing the refugees that now populate Gaza, user of collective punishment.

-America: Attempting to rebuild and bring some semblance of stability to Afghanistan.
-Israel: Refuses to honor commitments regarding lifting the blockade, continues to make residents of Gaza suffer from acute insufficiencies of important medical supplies, job opportunities, and other needed resources.

How much death and destruction have we brought to civilian areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan in our efforts to go after al Qaeda and their supporters? Surely if the US is justified in spreading war over two countries, Afghanistan and Pakistan, and causing at least thousands of deaths, many of them innocent civilians, in response to one terror attack against our civilian population, Israel is justified in going after Hamas in response to thousands of terror attacks against its civilian population over a period of years.

When did we place blockades on Afghanistan and Pakistan? A blockade is an act of war.

Since Israel had very few US weapons until after the 1973 war and since all the land Israel now holds was captured before that war, just what land do you think was taken with US weapons?

We're funding a government that funds the theft of Palestinian land via settlements. We're indirectly funding the destruction of Gaza's civilian population as well. Israel should receive absolutely no support from the United States until it treats its population and those under its control justly.

If you can do the arithmetic, you understand there is considerable benefit to the US from the aid to Israel, but since you seem to find the concept so challenging and confusing, let me help you out. Not one penny of this military aid ever leaves the US economy. For each dollar spent on military aid to Israel, if we assume a total local, state and federal tax bill of only 20%, $.20 goes back to federal, state and local governments and $.80 goes to stimulate the local and state economies where the companies are located. Of the $.80 spent, another $.16 goes to taxes and $.64 goes to further stimulate the US economy, that's $.36 in taxes so far. As that $.64 is spent, roughly $.13 more goes to taxes and $.51 spent, all of it here, and as the money further circulates all of it eventually goes to federal, state and local taxes except for what goes into savings.

If we assume each job created by this military aid to Israel pays $50,000, then 50,000 good paying American jobs will have been created by it. So the end result is that some federal money is redistributed to state and local governments and more than 50,000 US jobs are created.

In addition, this aid to Israel allows the US to maintain a larger capacity to manufacture these weapons than we currently need but which we can draw on in an emergency. This means we don't have to stockpile as many weapons against emergencies and that saves us money from our defense budget without giving up any preparedness.

Not only would the US not gain any benefit from not providing this aid to Israel, but it would cost us influence among the Arabs since they seem to universally believe the US has extraordinary influence over Israel by virtue of this aid. Why would any of the Arab states want to talk to us about Israel or the Palestinians if they didn't think we any longer had this influence? They would regard as they now do France: rich but impotent. Moreover, the military aid we give to Israel and Egypt, making each so strong the other would not risk attacking it, has locked Soviet and now Russian influence out of the ME and kept the peace there for thirty years, saving at least tens of thousands of lives, probably most of them Arabs.

Whatever you may believe about the politics of the situation, there is little difference between the actions Israel was forced to take in Gaza and the actions the US has been forced to take in Afghanistan, to a lesser extent in Pakistan and even in Iraq. No other country on Earth but Israel that had the means to do something about it would have allowed over 10% of its population to live under constant terror of rocket and mortar attacks for eight years without taking military action. The operation in Gaza was not only justified, but it was inevitable and long overdue.

Israel suffered relatively few deaths from the thousands of rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza because it erected early warning systems and no one in any of the towns attacked was ever more than a minute from a bomb shelter or other fortified place. While Hamas had been planning for years in anticipation of an Israeli attack by building fortification, barriers to transport, elaborate booby traps, etc. and bunkers and tunnels for their leaders to hide and their fighters to fight from, they never built bomb shelters for the protection of the civilian population and although they knew they would stage their defense from civilian areas, and Israel left a large area open south of Gaza City the population could have been evacuated to, there was apparently no plan in place to evacuate civilians and no effort was made to do so even after the fighting had begun. Had Hamas taken these two simply and obvious steps to protect civilian life, bomb shelters for emergencies and an evacuation plan for the duration, very few civilians would have been killed because they simply wouldn't have been where the fighting was.

It is impossible for an honest person to consider the fact that Hamas made absolutely no effort to protect civilian lives, despite the fact it would have been so simple to do so, and not assign the major share of responsibility for those civilian deaths to Hamas. And it is impossible not to ask: why didn't Hamas attempt to protect civilian life? Were they too stupid to think of bomb shelters and an evacuation plan? Were they simply indifferent to how many civilians were killed? Or did they not evacuate the civilians because they hoped their presence would force the IDF to forgo the use of artillery and air power for fear of civilian casualties, that is, did Hamas plan all along to use civilians as human shields? Or did they want a large number of civilian casualties to use for propaganda?

You choose.