US MilitaryBase closures...more outsourcing?

mrsx said:
That's a good quibble but doesn't address the substance of the issue: the existence of bases in Iraq and the likelihood of getting sent there is causing a critical shortage of volunteers, damaging our military structure and our ability to project force in theaters far more central to our interests.

Thank you for your unsolicited career counseling. The Lord has called me to bring light into this particular corner of the Darkness. This is what I intend to do, although I could make more money and meet more interesting people if, like you, I sold out to the highest bidder.

I sold out? Where's my check?
 
freeandfun1 said:
Actually, only your knowledge is flawed. Soldiers are being stabilized for weeks at a time in Germany BEFORE returning to the USA for further treatments and rehab. Hospital ships are used for triage, not for long term rehabilitative stays and/or multiple surgeries.

Typical scenario:

Soldier is wounded on the battlefield.

1. Treated by company/platoon or squad medic basic lifesaving methods.
2. Taken to battalion aid station stabilization.
3. Airlifted to MASH unit emergency surgery.
4. Possibly airlifted to a Hospital ship for further surgeries.
5. Airlifted to Germany for follow-up surgeries, early rehab.
6. Airlifted to America for recovery, fitting of prosthetic devices, etc.

Many of the soldiers being injured in Iraq and Afghanistan are spending weeks upon weeks in Germany before being returned to the USA. Some are being treated in Germany and then returning to their units. The bases in Germany provide a valuable service whether YOU want to admit it or not.



Not flawed on my part....geez free...just go from # 4 to # 6..bi pass #5...airlifting from #4 to # 6 would save alot of money since the serious will be sent home anyway....!
 
archangel said:
Not flawed on my part....geez free...just go from # 4 to # 6..bi pass #5...airlifting from #4 to # 6 would save alot of money since the serious will be sent home anyway....!
So you're a doc now too? I guess you never watch any of the news specials on FOX or even on CNN for that matter that have followed soldiers through the system. There was one famale officer I recall watching on CNN that spent five months in Germany before she was stable enough to be sent to the USA. She had a massive head injury. They even discussed how it was dangerous flying her to Germany, but that it was the closest place that could provide the type of medical care she needed. An 8 hour flight to Frankfurt was doable, but a 20 hour flight the the USA would have likely killed her.

But I gather from your comments that a few jobs in the USA are worth her life.

You're a sad individual to not look beyond your nose.
 
freeandfun1 said:
So you're a doc now too? I guess you never watch any of the news specials on FOX or even on CNN for that matter that have followed soldiers through the system. There was one famale officer I recall watching on CNN that spent five months in Germany before she was stable enough to be sent to the USA. She had a massive head injury. They even discussed how it was dangerous flying her to Germany, but that it was the closest place that could provide the type of medical care she needed. An 8 hour flight to Frankfurt was doable, but a 20 hour flight the the USA would have likely killed her.

But I gather from your comments that a few jobs in the USA are worth her life.

You're a sad individual to not look beyond your nose.


Exceptions to the rule is what you are citing...a good point...however she could have been sent to the UK....after all they are supporting us in this conflict...that was my initial comment...close bases in the countries who continually thumb their noses at us...and by the way after treatment in Germany for serious wounds....the soldier is always granted home leave to further heal and get needed R&R.....you are the one who always supports saving money...whats up with this contradiction now?
 
archangel said:
you are the one who always supports saving money...whats up with this contradiction now?
There is no contradiction at all. As I have stated numerous times, the safety and medical care of our soldiers trumps all in my book; I am very consistent. You are the one with a flawed opinion. One you are allowed to have, but flawed none the less.
 
freeandfun1 said:
There is no contradiction at all. As I have stated numerous times, the safety and medical care of our soldiers trumps all in my book; I am very consistent. You are the one with a flawed opinion. One you are allowed to have, but flawed none the less.



You still did not address the issue of sending to the UK rather than Germany!
You call me sad....and when did I become a Doc...and I am allowed a opinion...flawed may it be...I concede your opinions are worth way more than mine....have a great day in "Sin City" :rolleyes:
 
I can tell you from personal experience that the medicine practiced in Europe is a whole lot different than the medicine practiced in the US. Treatment and diagnosis procedures and approaches to therapy differ widely from US practices. I base this on more than one experience too.

I am not saying that US soldiers should not or could not be treated in UK hospitals, but I still have this romanticized notion that the US military should take care of its own. Not to mention that I believe if US soldiers were to be treated in European hospitals, they may not recieve as good a care (in some cases) or be provided the same security as they receive in a US military hospital. I am not sure I want our wounded being treated by someone living in a country with negative views of the US (France for example). Also, I would tend to believe that once a foriegn hospital received US wounded, the cost for treatment might be "adjusted" ... and the savings would not be as big as you would think.
 
CSM said:
I can tell you from personal experience that the medicine practiced in Europe is a whole lot different than the medicine practiced in the US. Treatment and diagnosis procedures and approaches to therapy differ widely from US practices. I base this on more than one experience too.

I am not saying that US soldiers should not or could not be treated in UK hospitals, but I still have this romanticized notion that the US military should take care of its own. Not to mention that I believe if US soldiers were to be treated in European hospitals, they may not recieve as good a care (in some cases) or be provided the same security as they receive in a US military hospital. I am not sure I want our wounded being treated by someone living in a country with negative views of the US (France for example). Also, I would tend to believe that once a foriegn hospital received US wounded, the cost for treatment might be "adjusted" ... and the savings would not be as big as you would think.

Do we not have military bases in the UK with a Hospital attachment?
 
CSM said:
I can tell you from personal experience that the medicine practiced in Europe is a whole lot different than the medicine practiced in the US. Treatment and diagnosis procedures and approaches to therapy differ widely from US practices. I base this on more than one experience too.

I am not saying that US soldiers should not or could not be treated in UK hospitals, but I still have this romanticized notion that the US military should take care of its own. Not to mention that I believe if US soldiers were to be treated in European hospitals, they may not recieve as good a care (in some cases) or be provided the same security as they receive in a US military hospital. I am not sure I want our wounded being treated by someone living in a country with negative views of the US (France for example). Also, I would tend to believe that once a foriegn hospital received US wounded, the cost for treatment might be "adjusted" ... and the savings would not be as big as you would think.
I am assuming that you are commenting that for our troops to be treated in the UK, it would have to be done at non-US hospitals while the hospitals treating our troops in Germany are US run hospitals....
 
archangel said:
Do we not have military bases in the UK with a Hospital attachment?
I was part (many years ago of course) of a MEDEVAC exercise where we were evacuated from the battlefield in Germany to a facility (our best at the time) at Lakenheath AFB in England. The facility at the time (could be different now, but I doubt it) was small and not capable of handling mass casualties.
 
archangel said:
Do we not have military bases in the UK with a Hospital attachment?
Not with the infrastructure that Germany has...in other words, complex cases from the UK are sent to (you guessed it) Germany. Most of the bases in the UK are very small or shared with UK forces and most are Air Force detachments (in other words, not permanently stationed there). There are no major Army bases there in the UK, and though the US Navy makes port there occassionally, I dont think there are any big Navy bases there. I guess the difference would be like that of going to a clinic as opposed to a hospital...
 
freeandfun1 said:
I was part (many years ago of course) of a MEDEVAC exercise where we were evacuated from the battlefield in Germany to a facility (our best at the time) at Lakenheath AFB in England. The facility at the time (could be different now, but I doubt it) was small and not capable of handling mass casualties.
Exactly and that particular installation is now closed anyway. Most of the bases in Europe have been closed as well...not like it was in the 80's where avery little town in the Fulda Gap had a small Kaserne of US troops with an infirmary. It is even worse in the Mediteranean...had a broken arm in Greece once and went to a civilian hospital...they dont believe in pain killers even for setting the break...aspirin was they best they could do and that had to come from my unit medic.
 
CSM said:
Not with the infrastructure that Germany has...in other words, complex cases from the UK are sent to (you guessed it) Germany. Most of the bases in the UK are very small or shared with UK forces and most are Air Force detachments (in other words, not permanently stationed there). There are no major Army bases there in the UK, and though the US Navy makes port there occassionally, I dont think there are any big Navy bases there. I guess the difference would be like that of going to a clinic as opposed to a hospital...



This being the case...why not transfer the German Hospital detachment to the UK..after all they do tend to support us more freeley...I would rather see their economy prosper vs Germany's....
 
archangel said:
This being the case...why not transfer the German Hospital detachment to the UK..after all they do tend to support us more freeley...I would rather see their economy prosper vs Germany's....

Possibility there...not sure how much the move would cost or if the UK would have a suitable facilty available. The US would probably have to build a new facility at no cost savings...
 
CSM said:
Possibility there...not sure how much the move would cost or if the UK would have a suitable facilty available. The US would probably have to build a new facility at no cost savings...


I am sure the UK would make this investment suitable to cost saving...after all it would be in their best interest over the long haul...just one mans opinion... :huh:
 
archangel said:
I am sure the UK would make this investment suitable to cost saving...after all it would be in their best interest over the long haul...just one mans opinion... :huh:
But the facilities are needed NOW. Sure, in the future it COULD be done, but right now, we are using the facilities in Germany and we cannot risk the down time.
 
archangel said:
I am sure the UK would make this investment suitable to cost saving...after all it would be in their best interest over the long haul...just one mans opinion... :huh:
I am not so sure of that...land is at a premium in the UK, especially an area that would be close enough to a major airport, etc. Not saying that it couldn't be done, just saying it would need investigation. I would not be opposed to pulling our troops out of anyplace in Europe and in partcular Germany, and Spain. The BRAC indicates that approximately 20,000 will be pulled out of Europe. I will have to research to find out how many we actually have there now or how many will be left after the BRAC.
 
freeandfun1 said:
But the facilities are needed NOW. Sure, in the future it COULD be done, but right now, we are using the facilities in Germany and we cannot risk the down time.


Thats what I am talking about...we are obviously in this for the long haul....get started now during the BRAC..I am not suggesting a shut down instantly in Germany...just a phase out and transfer...which could get started now!
 
It probably would make more sense in investing in battlefield medical advances and technology over the long run than trying to build another hospital. Pure speculation on my part there. Having a military presence of some small scale in Europe is not necessarily a bad idea either.
 
CSM said:
It probably would make more sense in investing in battlefield medical advances and technology over the long run than trying to build another hospital. Pure speculation on my part there. Having a military presence of some small scale in Europe is not necessarily a bad idea either.


I say pull out of the EU countries....period..they do not like us or want us there....so we should make their dream come true...and give our support to those who support us....Medical and tech always goes on no matter where we are located! ;)
 

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