US law to require vacation

[DiveCon]

g e n e r a l w e l f a r e c l a u s e

Gives them the power to do anything so long as it's in the best interest of the people. I know you guys love to overlook it, but it's there in black and white.

Oh, you are one of those idiots. I can see I'm wasting my time.

Yep one of those idiots that doesn't cherry pick which parts of the constitution I like....

no, one of those idiots that thinks that gives carte blanche

 

[Care4all]

Seraega and MM
It's not that I don't think our government has over reached with our constitution in several areas, but because of all of the labor laws out there already, I think that paid vacation would just fall in to that category if they did decide to pass the bill...., and would not be deemed unconstitutional since the other laws in this particular area have not been, ya know?

 

[Seraega]

Seraega and MM
It's not that I don't think our government has over reached with our constitution in several areas, but because of all of the labor laws out there already, I think that paid vacation would just fall in to that category if they did decide to pass the bill...., and would not be deemed unconstitutional since the other laws in this particular area have not been, ya know?

I agree with you. I'm not necessarily in favor of mandated vacation like the French, but there has been a proposal floating around for years for mandatory paid sick time... and that I do support at least 5-7 days should be the minimum. I've been in too many situations where 1 guy comes in sick to death trying to be a hero and a week later the whole department has it. It's just bad health policy, and bad productivity policy.

 

[alan1]

If only corporations were smart enough to understand that workers who receive regular vacations are more productive we wouldn't be having this discussion. Oh look another flaw of unfettered capitalism.....

Why don't you point out in the constitution where it says the government can mandate that an employer give paid vacation.
If only you and Alan Grayson were smart enough to understand the constitution we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Where in the constitution does it give us a 40 hour work week? Where in the constitution does it give us child labor laws which limit the hours children can work? Where in the constitution does it give us a paid leave of absence for pregnancy, where in the constitution does it give us disability or workman's comp? Where in our constitution did it give us paid holidays? Where in our constitution did it give us unemployment benefits? these are just a few of the workman's laws out there...

and on other things, where in the constitution does it give us our police, our firemen, our schools, our parks, our roads, our VA hospitals and clinics, our Space program and even our standing army is not permitted longer than 2 years at a time....?

I am not trying to be a "pill" here mm, but it seems all the other labor laws we have here would fall in to the same category as vacation pay...and it appears, since they were never shot down by the Supreme court on the other things, that this would not be either???

Care

And which of those laws is the employer required to pay the employee for? Forcing paid vacation is forcing an employer to pay an employee to not work, it's entirely different than the other laws you just mentioned.
P.S. paid holidays are not a government mandate.

 

[Care4all]

Why don't you point out in the constitution where it says the government can mandate that an employer give paid vacation.
If only you and Alan Grayson were smart enough to understand the constitution we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Where in the constitution does it give us a 40 hour work week? Where in the constitution does it give us child labor laws which limit the hours children can work? Where in the constitution does it give us a paid leave of absence for pregnancy, where in the constitution does it give us disability or workman's comp? Where in our constitution did it give us paid holidays? Where in our constitution did it give us unemployment benefits? these are just a few of the workman's laws out there...

and on other things, where in the constitution does it give us our police, our firemen, our schools, our parks, our roads, our VA hospitals and clinics, our Space program and even our standing army is not permitted longer than 2 years at a time....?

I am not trying to be a "pill" here mm, but it seems all the other labor laws we have here would fall in to the same category as vacation pay...and it appears, since they were never shot down by the Supreme court on the other things, that this would not be either???

Care

And which of those laws is the employer required to pay the employee for? Forcing paid vacation is forcing an employer to pay an employee to not work, it's entirely different than the other laws you just mentioned.
P.S. paid holidays are not a government mandate.

Employers pay your unemployment and some of disability and your paid holidays required and your maternity leave I believe? And they can't work you more than 40 hours a week if an hourly employee unless they pay you overtime....it all involves money MM...?

 

[alan1]

Where in the constitution does it give us a 40 hour work week? Where in the constitution does it give us child labor laws which limit the hours children can work? Where in the constitution does it give us a paid leave of absence for pregnancy, where in the constitution does it give us disability or workman's comp? Where in our constitution did it give us paid holidays? Where in our constitution did it give us unemployment benefits? these are just a few of the workman's laws out there...

and on other things, where in the constitution does it give us our police, our firemen, our schools, our parks, our roads, our VA hospitals and clinics, our Space program and even our standing army is not permitted longer than 2 years at a time....?

I am not trying to be a "pill" here mm, but it seems all the other labor laws we have here would fall in to the same category as vacation pay...and it appears, since they were never shot down by the Supreme court on the other things, that this would not be either???

Care

And which of those laws is the employer required to pay the employee for? Forcing paid vacation is forcing an employer to pay an employee to not work, it's entirely different than the other laws you just mentioned.
P.S. paid holidays are not a government mandate.

Employers pay your unemployment and some of disability and your paid holidays required and your maternity leave I believe? And they can't work you more than 40 hours a week if an hourly employee unless they pay you overtime....it all involves money MM...?

Evidently, you haven't much experience in the working world. Paid holidays is not a national law. Paid maternity leave is not a national law. Paying unemployment insurance is only paid for currently employed personal (oh, and that is state controlled, not a national law). A 40 hour work week is paying somebody to work 40 hours, not paying them to not work. The holes in your argument are so large a boulder would fall through.

 

[DiveCon]

And which of those laws is the employer required to pay the employee for? Forcing paid vacation is forcing an employer to pay an employee to not work, it's entirely different than the other laws you just mentioned.
P.S. paid holidays are not a government mandate.

Employers pay your unemployment and some of disability and your paid holidays required and your maternity leave I believe? And they can't work you more than 40 hours a week if an hourly employee unless they pay you overtime....it all involves money MM...?

Evidently, you haven't much experience in the working world. Paid holidays is not a national law. Paid maternity leave is not a national law. Paying unemployment insurance is only paid for currently employed personal (oh, and that is state controlled, not a national law). A 40 hour work week is paying somebody to work 40 hours, not paying them to not work. The holes in your argument are so large a boulder would fall through.

exactly, most of those laws she brought up are state laws, not federal

 

[alan1]

Employers pay your unemployment and some of disability and your paid holidays required and your maternity leave I believe? And they can't work you more than 40 hours a week if an hourly employee unless they pay you overtime....it all involves money MM...?

Evidently, you haven't much experience in the working world. Paid holidays is not a national law. Paid maternity leave is not a national law. Paying unemployment insurance is only paid for currently employed personal (oh, and that is state controlled, not a national law). A 40 hour work week is paying somebody to work 40 hours, not paying them to not work. The holes in your argument are so large a boulder would fall through.

exactly, most of those laws she brought up are state laws, not federal

Care4all is probably a Californian or Canadian.

 

[Care4all]

And which of those laws is the employer required to pay the employee for? Forcing paid vacation is forcing an employer to pay an employee to not work, it's entirely different than the other laws you just mentioned.
P.S. paid holidays are not a government mandate.

Employers pay your unemployment and some of disability and your paid holidays required and your maternity leave I believe? And they can't work you more than 40 hours a week if an hourly employee unless they pay you overtime....it all involves money MM...?

Evidently, you haven't much experience in the working world. Paid holidays is not a national law. Paid maternity leave is not a national law. Paying unemployment insurance is only paid for currently employed personal (oh, and that is state controlled, not a national law). A 40 hour work week is paying somebody to work 40 hours, not paying them to not work. The holes in your argument are so large a boulder would fall through.

sorry to say, but the boulder is in your park, not mine on this...

Each state has their Paid Holiday requirements, if the constitution deemed paid holidays unconstitutional, the States would have not been able to do it, no?

Unemployment is most certainly a federal mandate, but each state determines what theirs will be monetarily and the employers are most certainly paying it....except when the federal government extends it during high unemployment periods, then the fed comes in and pays the extra weeks...

And our government pays all of the federal holidays for all of their employees, what makes that constitutional as you asked before?

having to pay overtime for over 40 hours most certainly costs the employer? you can't dance around that....workers were working 50=70 hour weeks before the 40 hour work week law, where they got paid the same hourly rate, but NOW the employers have to pay overtime for those hours...

The only one I was not certain on was the maternity leave being paid....it is federal law that emplyers must give it, and not replace the employee while they are out, and now federally, employers have to give the FATHERS the maternity leave as well and guarantee them their job when it is over and no loss of benefits while they are out...that costs money as well along with the cost of having to work your other employees longer hours to cover the work load while they are on leave...

No MM, I don't think you have thought this through....these laws DO COST EMPLOYERS.

care

 

[Care4all]

employers pay half of the employee Social security as well....

 

[alan1]

Employers pay your unemployment and some of disability and your paid holidays required and your maternity leave I believe? And they can't work you more than 40 hours a week if an hourly employee unless they pay you overtime....it all involves money MM...?

Evidently, you haven't much experience in the working world. Paid holidays is not a national law. Paid maternity leave is not a national law. Paying unemployment insurance is only paid for currently employed personal (oh, and that is state controlled, not a national law). A 40 hour work week is paying somebody to work 40 hours, not paying them to not work. The holes in your argument are so large a boulder would fall through.

sorry to say, but the boulder is in your park, not mine on this...

Each state has their Paid Holiday requirements, if the constitution deemed paid holidays unconstitutional, the States would have not been able to do it, no?

Unemployment is most certainly a federal mandate, but each state determines what theirs will be monetarily and the employers are most certainly paying it....except when the federal government extends it during high unemployment periods, then the fed comes in and pays the extra weeks...

And our government pays all of the federal holidays for all of their employees, what makes that constitutional as you asked before?

having to pay overtime for over 40 hours most certainly costs the employer? you can't dance around that....workers were working 50=70 hour weeks before the 40 hour work week law, where they got paid the same hourly rate, but NOW the employers have to pay overtime for those hours...

The only one I was not certain on was the maternity leave being paid....it is federal law that emplyers must give it, and not replace the employee while they are out, and now federally, employers have to give the FATHERS the maternity leave as well and guarantee them their job when it is over and no loss of benefits while they are out...that costs money as well along with the cost of having to work your other employees longer hours to cover the work load while they are on leave...

No MM, I don't think you have thought this through....these laws DO COST EMPLOYERS.

care

Please show me some laws that require paying people for holidays. I've worked in quite a few states and haven't run across that law yet.

On the 40 hour work week, again, it is paying people to work, not paying people to not work. What part of that do you not understand.
Similar with unemployment insurance, it is paid for people that are working, it isn't paid for by the employer for people that are not working. Is it that hard of a concept to grasp? (P.S. it's still state law, not federal)
Back to maternity, that is unpaid leave, therefore it doesn't cost the employer in a direct financial way.

The proposed law in the OP is an attempt at a federal mandate, do you see the damn difference yet or are you just trying to be obstinate?

 

[alan1]

employers pay half of the employee Social security as well....

Or is that just 7.5% less pay that the employee doesn't get? Put on your thinking cap for a moment and ponder it.

 

[Seraega]

employers pay half of the employee Social security as well....

Or is that just 7.5% less pay that the employee doesn't get? Put on your thinking cap for a moment and ponder it.

If you seriously think that social security taxes being eliminated would result in an across the board raise of 7.5% for employees I need some of what you're on. That would just be additional profit in the hands of the owners IMO.

 

[alan1]

employers pay half of the employee Social security as well....

Or is that just 7.5% less pay that the employee doesn't get? Put on your thinking cap for a moment and ponder it.

If you seriously think that social security taxes being eliminated would result in an across the board raise of 7.5% for employees I need some of what you're on. That would just be additional profit in the hands of the owners IMO.

If your employers SS taxes were eliminated and you weren't smart enough to negotiate getting a 7.5% raise, I don't want what you are on.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

employers pay half of the employee Social security as well....

Or is that just 7.5% less pay that the employee doesn't get? Put on your thinking cap for a moment and ponder it.

If you seriously think that social security taxes being eliminated would result in an across the board raise of 7.5% for employees I need some of what you're on. That would just be additional profit in the hands of the owners IMO.

Maybe, in some cases, the owners deserve it more than employees. After all, the owners have been paying it out of pocket forever.

But that doesn't change the fact that it's 7.5% that goes to no one who produces anything for that company.

 

[elvis]

Alan Grayson to introduce Paid Vacation Act - Erika Lovley - POLITICO.com
Snip.

Rep. Alan Grayson was standing in the middle of Disney World when it hit him: What Americans really need is a week of paid vacation.

So on Thursday, the Florida Democrat will introduce the Paid Vacation Act — legislation that would be the first to make paid vacation time a requirement under federal law.

The bill would require companies with more than 100 employees to offer a week of paid vacation for both full-time and part-time employees after they’ve put in a year on the job. Three years after the effective date of the law, those same companies would be required to provide two weeks of paid vacation, and companies with 50 or more employees would have to provide one week.

Would you agree with a US law to require employers to give vacation time?

Discuss.

No, it will discourage business and bring down the economy. This is part of the reason Europe has enjoyed consistent double-digit employment over the past 15 years.

 

[Care4all]

Mm, I'm not really in to this argue at all costs kind of thing, and never have been and just don't feel good when i get in to these kind of discussions with people I like....

mandatory overtime pay, for over the 40 hours is what costs the employer....surely you can recognize such, when before the 40 hour work week it did not cost employers the overtime pay. And if they don't want to pay overtime yet the hours still needed and they hire an additional employee to cover the hours they need at regular pay, it still costs the employer money to hire the additional worker, training hours alone costs them, plus an additional person to pay unemployment insurance on, an additional person to pay health insurance for, etc....the 40 hour work week cost employers a bundle when it came in to effect.

and please don't even suggest that I have not been in the working world and am clueless as you did...I am a business person, primarily retail and whole sale and know quite a bit about it....not everything, but quite a bit with my 25 years of experience in it...


so, after I post this and give you a link you requested for one of the States that I lived in as proof of what I have said regarding holiday pay, I'm not going to go any farther on this than I have and you will just have to do your own research on it if you really want to learn more.

Overview
The Massachusetts Blue Laws
(Revised 7/21/05)

The guide below is provided for general informational purposes to help both employees and employers understand the law in this area. The Massachusetts Blue Laws are enforced by the Office of the Attorney General. If you have questions about possible violations of these laws, please contact the Attorney General's Fair Labor Division at 617-727-3465.

If you have questions about statewide approval of local permits for holiday openings, please contact the Division of Occupational Safety's Minimum Wage Program at 617-626-6952.

SUNDAYS

A. RETAIL ESTABLISHMENTS

Due to a change in the laws that was made in 1994, retailers are no longer restricted to opening at 12:00 noon and may open at any time on Sundays without the need for approval by the Department of Labor, and without the need for a local police permit. M.G.L. c. 136, §16.

M.G.L. Chapter 136, §6 contains exemptions from Blue Law restrictions for certain retail and non-retail businesses. If a business falls within one of these exemptions, the following restrictions do not apply. Otherwise, any retail establishment which operates on Sundays is subject to the following two restrictions:

1. Time and One-Half Pay
Retailers that employ more than seven (7) persons, including the owner, are required to compensate employees who work on Sundays, except for bona fide executive, administrative and professional employees, at a rate of pay not less than one and one-half times their regular rate.

2. Voluntariness of Employment
Regardless of the number of employees, retailers cannot require employees to work on Sunday, and an employee's refusal to work may not be grounds for discrimination, dismissal, discharge, reduction in hours, or any other penalty.

B. NON-RETAIL ESTABLISHMENTS

Unless a non-retail business falls within one of the exemptions in M.G.L. Chapter 136, §6 it is not allowed to operate on Sundays. However, for all businesses, a permit for work on Sundays may be issued by the police chief of the city or town where the business is located. A permit may be issued only for "necessary work or labor which could not be performed on any other day without serious suffering, loss, damage or public inconvenience, or which could not be performed on any other day without delay to military defense work." M.G.L. c. 136, §7. Additionally, pursuant to M.G.L. c. 149, §51A, manufacturers may petition the Attorney General for a temporary exemption from the Sunday work restriction.

HOLIDAYS

If a retail or non-retail business falls within one of the exemptions in Chapter 136, it may operate on holidays. However, if the non-retail business is a factory or mill, employees may not be required to work on legal holidays pursuant to M.G.L. 149, § 45 unless the work is "absolutely necessary and can be legally performed on Sunday." (*See manufacturers note below under non-retail) Therefore, manufacturing employees must voluntarily agree to work . Otherwise, the following rules apply:

A. RETAIL ESTABLISHMENTS

Unrestricted Holidays:
Work may be performed without a permit. Time and one-half pay and voluntariness of employment requirements do not apply.

Martin Luther King Day
President's Day
Evacuation Day
Patriots' Day
Bunker Hill Day

Partially Restricted Holidays:
Work may be performed without a permit. Time and one-half pay and voluntariness of employment requirements do apply.

New Year's Day
Memorial Day
Independence Day
Labor Day
Columbus Day after 12:00 noon
Veterans' Day after 1:00 p.m.

Restricted Holidays:
Work may be performed only with a local police permit and approval by the State's Division of Occupational Safety.

Columbus Day before 12:00 noon*
Veterans' Day before 1:00 p.m.*
Thanksgiving Day
Christmas Day

* If a permit is granted, time and one-half pay and voluntariness of employment requirements do apply.

continued at:
Overview

 

[Care4all]

Oh, and I am not necessarily arguing that paid vacation should be made mandatory, my argument was with you regarding whether it was constitutional or not...and I felt that since all of the other labor laws that have been instituted over the years were not unconstitutional, then this more than likely would not be either.

I don't think the constitutional argument to stop something like this will work...

there are other valid arguments against this as there are some for it....being unconstitutional, doesn't hold water though, imo.

 

[elvis]

Oh, and I am not necessarily arguing that paid vacation should be made mandatory, my argument was with you regarding whether it was constitutional or not...and I felt that since all of the other labor laws that have been instituted over the years were not unconstitutional, then this more than likely would not be either.

I don't think the constitutional argument to stop something like this will work...

there are other valid arguments against this as there are some for it....being unconstitutional, doesn't hold weight though, imo.

I don't think it's unconstitutional, unless the 40-hour work week is also. I just don't like the idea.

 

[DiveCon]

Mm, I'm not really in to this argue at all costs kind of thing, and never have been and just don't feel good when i get in to these kind of discussions with people I like....

mandatory overtime pay, for over the 40 hours is what costs the employer....surely you can recognize such, when before the 40 hour work week it did not cost employers the overtime pay. And if they don't want to pay overtime yet the hours still needed and they hire an additional employee to cover the hours they need at regular pay, it still costs the employer money to hire the additional worker, training hours alone costs them, plus an additional person to pay unemployment insurance on, an additional person to pay health insurance for, etc....the 40 hour work week cost employers a bundle when it came in to effect.

and please don't even suggest that I have not been in the working world and am clueless as you did...I am a business person, primarily retail and whole sale and know quite a bit about it....not everything, but quite a bit with my 25 years of experience in it...


so, after I post this and give you a link you requested for one of the States that I lived in as proof of what I have said regarding holiday pay, I'm not going to go any farther on this than I have and you will just have to do your own research on it if you really want to learn more.

Overview
The Massachusetts Blue Laws
(Revised 7/21/05)

The guide below is provided for general informational purposes to help both employees and employers understand the law in this area. The Massachusetts Blue Laws are enforced by the Office of the Attorney General. If you have questions about possible violations of these laws, please contact the Attorney General's Fair Labor Division at 617-727-3465.

If you have questions about statewide approval of local permits for holiday openings, please contact the Division of Occupational Safety's Minimum Wage Program at 617-626-6952.

SUNDAYS

A. RETAIL ESTABLISHMENTS

Due to a change in the laws that was made in 1994, retailers are no longer restricted to opening at 12:00 noon and may open at any time on Sundays without the need for approval by the Department of Labor, and without the need for a local police permit. M.G.L. c. 136, §16.

M.G.L. Chapter 136, §6 contains exemptions from Blue Law restrictions for certain retail and non-retail businesses. If a business falls within one of these exemptions, the following restrictions do not apply. Otherwise, any retail establishment which operates on Sundays is subject to the following two restrictions:

1. Time and One-Half Pay
Retailers that employ more than seven (7) persons, including the owner, are required to compensate employees who work on Sundays, except for bona fide executive, administrative and professional employees, at a rate of pay not less than one and one-half times their regular rate.

2. Voluntariness of Employment
Regardless of the number of employees, retailers cannot require employees to work on Sunday, and an employee's refusal to work may not be grounds for discrimination, dismissal, discharge, reduction in hours, or any other penalty.

B. NON-RETAIL ESTABLISHMENTS

Unless a non-retail business falls within one of the exemptions in M.G.L. Chapter 136, §6 it is not allowed to operate on Sundays. However, for all businesses, a permit for work on Sundays may be issued by the police chief of the city or town where the business is located. A permit may be issued only for "necessary work or labor which could not be performed on any other day without serious suffering, loss, damage or public inconvenience, or which could not be performed on any other day without delay to military defense work." M.G.L. c. 136, §7. Additionally, pursuant to M.G.L. c. 149, §51A, manufacturers may petition the Attorney General for a temporary exemption from the Sunday work restriction.

HOLIDAYS

If a retail or non-retail business falls within one of the exemptions in Chapter 136, it may operate on holidays. However, if the non-retail business is a factory or mill, employees may not be required to work on legal holidays pursuant to M.G.L. 149, § 45 unless the work is "absolutely necessary and can be legally performed on Sunday." (*See manufacturers note below under non-retail) Therefore, manufacturing employees must voluntarily agree to work . Otherwise, the following rules apply:

A. RETAIL ESTABLISHMENTS

Unrestricted Holidays:
Work may be performed without a permit. Time and one-half pay and voluntariness of employment requirements do not apply.

Martin Luther King Day
President's Day
Evacuation Day
Patriots' Day
Bunker Hill Day

Partially Restricted Holidays:
Work may be performed without a permit. Time and one-half pay and voluntariness of employment requirements do apply.

New Year's Day
Memorial Day
Independence Day
Labor Day
Columbus Day after 12:00 noon
Veterans' Day after 1:00 p.m.

Restricted Holidays:
Work may be performed only with a local police permit and approval by the State's Division of Occupational Safety.

Columbus Day before 12:00 noon*
Veterans' Day before 1:00 p.m.*
Thanksgiving Day
Christmas Day

* If a permit is granted, time and one-half pay and voluntariness of employment requirements do apply.

continued at:
Overview

that doesnt support your claim that it was a federal law
thats a Mass STATE law