US 'hushed up' Soviet guilt over Katyn

[Jos]

New evidence appears to back the idea that the Roosevelt administration helped cover up Soviet guilt for the 1940 Katyn massacre of Polish soldiers.

Historians said documents, released by the US National Archives, supported the suspicion that the US did not want to anger its wartime ally, Joseph Stalin.

They showed the US was sent coded messages suggesting the Soviets, not the Nazis, carried out the massacre.

More than 22,000 Poles were killed by the Soviets on Stalin's orders.

Soviet Russia only admitted to the atrocity in 1990 after blaming the Nazis for five decades.

BBC News - US 'hushed up' Soviet guilt over Katyn

 

[CrusaderFrank]

How many times must I tell you FDR was Stalin's sock puppet? Same with Obama and Putin today

 

[CrusaderFrank]

FDR aided and abetted history's 2 biggest mass murderers: Stalin and Mao AND he converted Hoover's sane and safe Tuskegee Experiments into a Nazi-like disgrace

 

[CrusaderFrank]

McCarthy warned us that FDR's State was a haven for Communist spies who were directing US policy. Do you see why that maters now?

 

[ginscpy]

Not a peep out of the left in the US in the 1930s when Stalin was starving tens of millions of his own people............................

Or when Chariman Mao did the same thing with his Cultural Revolution in the 1960s.........................

 

[mememe]

One more idiotic "secret finding" from fans of Dr Goebbels.

Let me see...

1. Germans capture some US military and do what with them? Put them into one of POW camp. As any other Western POW.

2. Then, Germans take those American POW (why not French or British, or even Polish?) out of their camp and drive them all the way to Smolensk to have a look at some mass grave (considering the number of all mass graves all across Europe!)? Why?

But then it gets better:

3. Those US POW who most likely were shot from the sky and were not of any medical profession, had a look at the bodies and determined the exact time of their death!
They also did some ballistic expertise and determined where the bullets were made. And despite the fact they were of German origin, they (US POW) came to conclusion, the bullets were fired by the Russians!

4. After that Germans gracefully allowed American POW to write their "secret reports" and send those reports to the president of the United States of America!

5. Then again, how did American POWs find out where exactly were they taken? Were they given tour of Smolensk before being taken to the grave?


You, Americans, are so easily bought on any piece of crap, it makes me wonder if living on your big "island" did it to you or was it your edumacation coupled with McDonalds and your "reality" shows?

Ever heard about this: http://library2.lawschool.cornell.edu/donovan/

Cornell Law Library - Nuremberg Trials Collection: The Donovan Archive Index


Now, about the subject.
1. That Soviets were responsible for Katyn was a claim made by Dr.Goebbels.
2. POLISH Red Cross investigated the mass graves and came to a conclusion that it was done by Germans. Among the evidence pointing to that were: German manufactured cords on victims' hands; German bullets used; the trajectory of the bullets that were consistent with German way of execution, but not with that of NKVD; and a great number of personal artefacts and signed garments (it was against NKVD regulations to allow ANY personal items on the executed!). Btw, some people identified by their personal items were later found live and well in Poland...
3. The conclusions of Polish Red Cross were excepted at Nurnberg. The revision to Dr.Goebbels version of events started in mid 80-s in preparation for the dismemberment of the USSR.

Of course, the findings and the conclusions of the POLISH Red Cross who were first to examine Katyn we should disregard because Dr.Goebbels said it were Soviets who did it in Katyn, and the leadership that destroyed the Soviet Union at behest of the US appologised.
Then why did the same Russian leadership refuse to pay Poland compensation for Katyn and demanded documented proof, the proof the Polish Institute of National Rememberance said they LOST!!!!

If Polish latest claims were true, Poland’s Institute of National Remembrance would not have "lost" the related documents just at the time they were required to produce them in order to swindle Russian Federation for compensation.

Incidentally, I've never heard Poles or any other "civilised nation" cry out in indignation at "Polish officers" torturing to death some 80 000 Soviet POW in concentration camps in 1920-s; or using army and death squads against Galitchian peasants during famine of 1930-s.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
reference my post from History thread

 

[CrusaderFrank]

One more idiotic "secret finding" from fans of Dr Goebbels.

Let me see...

1. Germans capture some US military and do what with them? Put them into one of POW camp. As any other Western POW.

2. Then, Germans take those American POW (why not French or British, or even Polish?) out of their camp and drive them all the way to Smolensk to have a look at some mass grave (considering the number of all mass graves all across Europe!)? Why?

But then it gets better:

3. Those US POW who most likely were shot from the sky and were not of any medical profession, had a look at the bodies and determined the exact time of their death!
They also did some ballistic expertise and determined where the bullets were made. And despite the fact they were of German origin, they (US POW) came to conclusion, the bullets were fired by the Russians!

4. After that Germans gracefully allowed American POW to write their "secret reports" and send those reports to the president of the United States of America!

5. Then again, how did American POWs find out where exactly were they taken? Were they given tour of Smolensk before being taken to the grave?


You, Americans, are so easily bought on any piece of crap, it makes me wonder if living on your big "island" did it to you or was it your edumacation coupled with McDonalds and your "reality" shows?

Ever heard about this: http://library2.lawschool.cornell.edu/donovan/

Cornell Law Library - Nuremberg Trials Collection: The Donovan Archive Index


Now, about the subject.
1. That Soviets were responsible for Katyn was a claim made by Dr.Goebbels.
2. POLISH Red Cross investigated the mass graves and came to a conclusion that it was done by Germans. Among the evidence pointing to that were: German manufactured cords on victims' hands; German bullets used; the trajectory of the bullets that were consistent with German way of execution, but not with that of NKVD; and a great number of personal artefacts and signed garments (it was against NKVD regulations to allow ANY personal items on the executed!). Btw, some people identified by their personal items were later found live and well in Poland...
3. The conclusions of Polish Red Cross were excepted at Nurnberg. The revision to Dr.Goebbels version of events started in mid 80-s in preparation for the dismemberment of the USSR.

Of course, the findings and the conclusions of the POLISH Red Cross who were first to examine Katyn we should disregard because Dr.Goebbels said it were Soviets who did it in Katyn, and the leadership that destroyed the Soviet Union at behest of the US appologised.
Then why did the same Russian leadership refuse to pay Poland compensation for Katyn and demanded documented proof, the proof the Polish Institute of National Rememberance said they LOST!!!!

If Polish latest claims were true, Poland’s Institute of National Remembrance would not have "lost" the related documents just at the time they were required to produce them in order to swindle Russian Federation for compensation.

Incidentally, I've never heard Poles or any other "civilised nation" cry out in indignation at "Polish officers" torturing to death some 80 000 Soviet POW in concentration camps in 1920-s; or using army and death squads against Galitchian peasants during famine of 1930-s.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
reference my post from History thread

The Soviets admitted they did

 

[JakeStarkey]

All American students were taught the Soviets shot up the Poles at Katyn in the 1950s on.

Just check the high school history books of the era.

 

[mememe]

JakeStarkey

I was not talking of your school. I was talking of the international comeback of Dr Goebbels.

Anyway, considering this:
POLISH Red Cross investigated the mass graves and came to a conclusion that it was done by Germans. Among the evidence pointing to that were: German manufactured cords on victims' hands; German bullets used; the trajectory of the bullets that were consistent with German way of execution, but not with that of NKVD; and a great number of personal artefacts and signed garments (it was against NKVD regulations to allow ANY personal items on the executed!). Btw, some people identified by their personal items were later found live and well in Poland...
3. The conclusions of Polish Red Cross were excepted at Nurnberg. The revision to Dr.Goebbels version of events started in mid 80-s in preparation for the dismemberment of the USSR.

Of course, the findings and the conclusions of the POLISH Red Cross who were first to examine Katyn we should disregard because Dr.Goebbels said it were Soviets who did it in Katyn, and the leadership that destroyed the Soviet Union at behest of the US appologised.
Then why did the same Russian leadership refuse to pay Poland compensation for Katyn and demanded documented proof, the proof the Polish Institute of National Rememberance said they LOST!!!!

If Polish latest claims were true, Poland’s Institute of National Remembrance would not have "lost" the related documents just at the time they were required to produce them in order to swindle Russian Federation for compensation.

Your level of edumacation just proves my point: "American intelligence" is an oxymoron.


CrusaderFrank

You mean, US and UK funded "elite" did what it was paid to do, including dismantling the Soviet Union and allowing US and UK corporations free access to Russia's natural resources?

What a big surprise!

If they admitted to it, then why did they refuse to pay compensation when Poland demanded it? Why did they ask Poland to produce documented evidence it was given in the 90-s? And why Poland said it LOST the documents?

And what do you propose to do with the findings of the Polish Red Cross?



Mods

can we put these two threads together since they repeat each other?
http://www.usmessageboard.com/history/245500-the-battle-of-russia-us-1943-a-9.html

 

[JakeStarkey]

mememe, consider this: your argument is full of crap, the Soviets did it, and let's move on.

 

[mememe]

mememe, consider this: your argument is full of crap, the Soviets did it, and let's move on.

It's not "my" argument.

Polish Red Cross as well as US comission that visited Katyn came to the same conclusion: Germans did it.

If you support Dr Goebbels's claim (which is not surprising), then explain away this:

1. German manufactured cord;
2. Mountains of personalised artefacts in the grave;
3. Some of those identified as "Katyn dead" found alive in Poland;
4. Refusal of Poland to support its claim with documents.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Im trying to figure out how Goebbels got the USSR to admit to the mass murder in 1990

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Soviets did it. Promise.

 

[mememe]

The Soviets did it. Promise.

You think that Dr Goebbels is correct. And if so, I am asking you to explain away the following facts:

1. German manufactured cord;
2. Mountains of personalised artefacts in the grave;
3. Some of those identified as "Katyn dead" found alive in Poland;
4. Refusal of Poland to support its claim with documents.

Can you do that, or are you going to attempt to worm your way out of the direct answer by going into verbal contortionism?

 

[mememe]

Im trying to figure out how Goebbels got the USSR to admit to the mass murder in 1990

Can you read?

You mean, US and UK funded "elite" did what it was paid to do, including dismantling the Soviet Union and allowing US and UK corporations free access to Russia's natural resources?

What a big surprise!

If they admitted to it, then why did they refuse to pay compensation when Poland demanded it? Why did they ask Poland to produce documented evidence it was given in the 90-s? And why Poland said it LOST the documents?

And what do you propose to do with the findings of the Polish Red Cross?


PS
Not "the USSR", but Gorbachov and the follow-up elite.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That Goebbels could project beyond the grave 45 years later to get the Soviets to guess?

Paranormal Persuader?

Ghostly Gasper?

Casper the Conscience?

 

[Decus]

mememe, consider this: your argument is full of crap, the Soviets did it, and let's move on.

It's not "my" argument.

Polish Red Cross as well as US comission that visited Katyn came to the same conclusion: Germans did it.

If you support Dr Goebbels's claim (which is not surprising), then explain away this:

1. German manufactured cord;
2. Mountains of personalised artefacts in the grave;
3. Some of those identified as "Katyn dead" found alive in Poland;
4. Refusal of Poland to support its claim with documents.

You need professional help.

To set the record straight:
- The Polish Red Cross that exhumed the bodies in 1943 found the Soviets were guilty for the mass execution, NOT the Germans Polish Report Blames Russians for Katyn Massacre - NYTimes.com
- The Congressional Madden Commission in 1952 came to the same conclusion - the Soviets did it www.kresy-siberia.com/1952_Katyn_report_to_Congress.pdf

Records show that the governments of FDR and Churchill knew that the Soviets were guilty and the Russians have more recently admitted to their guilt and provided supporting documentation to that effect.

If you weren't such a tragic mess, you would be laughable. Seriously - get help.

 

[mememe]

That Goebbels could project beyond the grave 45 years later ?

After the WW2 US employed scores of Nazis including from Nazi propaganda department. Why do you think your propaganda merchants keep recycling Nazi old stories about "20 million in GULAG", "Ukrainian genocide", "Katyn"? You thought they were US ideas? No. US took them on board from Nazis after WW2.

Not only US supported Hitler until 1944, it still uses Goebbels propaganda stories!

 

[Trajan]

I have to defend fdr here, he had to keep the coalition viable, this would have done any good, its sux but there it is.

 

[Decus]

I have to defend fdr here, he had to keep the coalition viable, this would have done any good, its sux but there it is.

The price that was ultimately paid in lives and suffering as a result of turning a blind eye to that murderous bastard is very hard to justify. Realpolitik doesn't justify it.