US GDP rises 5.7%, but corporations aren't hiring

Obama,the congress, even Fucking Pelosi...the 3 stooges.....i dont care who is responsible....i hope 40 million jobs are created by the end of the year.....i have never delivered more unemployment checks then what i am delivering today......and every week 1or 2 new ones show up....

Yah, I am what is referred to as skilled labor in the blue collar work force and if I copped an attitude and wanted a new job or got laid off I never looked for work for longer than 2 weeks.
When the company I was working for went under I layed back for a couple months and enjoyed my retention bonus 'cause how many times does an opportunity like that come around. I told my wife to let's start sending some resumes out and she looked at me with a near horror on her face. She said she had been sending them out for over 4 months and all I was getting was thank you letters. I went unemplyed for a year and became very lucky when I landed a job, (nearly a 35% pay cut), it was between me and like 30 other guys and we went through a 3 month process to win the job. I woulda never tolerated such a thing in a decent economy.

Fact is, our jobs were lost due to greed. No other way to put it. The billionaires have to learn control over their own desires for more more more. Using Chinese slaves to compete with our great labor force is wrong and should never have been allowed. I like to mention that Clinton signed the World trade agreement allowing China in the mix but any president in office woulda signed it. That deal was bought and paid for by someone for sure. We have been sold and now we borrow our own money back to pay for these worthless stimulus packs.

Sounds like you are a trademan. I am a millwright, and I would have to disagree with you on the effect of the stimulas. While I have been lucky enough to only lose overtime in this downturn, many of the younger millwrights were laid off. A number of them took advantage of a program that paid their way through a two year course in windmill maintenace, and will graduate to a very high paying job in the rural areas of Oregon.


You didn't lose your job so you're right! The stimulas worked!!! I am so wrong now I see the light. The laid off guys got training and get a new job and i bet it's like that everywhere in the country or wait.... It's like that union people I bet, or some of the union people and you fall into that category. I went a year trying to find a job, took a 35% pay cut because I was too stupid to go to windmill maintenance school?

Whatever.
 
Obama,the congress, even Fucking Pelosi...the 3 stooges.....i dont care who is responsible....i hope 40 million jobs are created by the end of the year.....i have never delivered more unemployment checks then what i am delivering today......and every week 1or 2 new ones show up....

You want "government" to create jobs????

I thought we wanted government OUT of our lives?

i did say the 3 stooges and i dont care who is responsible.....if anyone of those peoples policies help create decent paying JOBS....and a lot of them....i am all for it.....hopefully 70-80% of them will be from the private sector....you can give all those failed companies all the stimulus money so they can do it again.....but if very few jobs are created....it was for nothing....the banks and all those big corporations made their own bed....let them wallow in it....the stimulus money should have went to the small businesses and the american taxpayer...
 
I strongly suspect that a lot of the alleged growth is from stores replenishing inventories after the holidays.

We'll see...The numbers often get revised down.

Umm, not for nothing, but wouldn't that be indicative of large amounts of holiday sales that depleted the inventory in the first place?

Or maybe gains in consumption in general. Companies don't generally just raise their inventories willy-nilly without some reason for it.
 
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Yep. One very good idea.

Drop corporate taxes and regulation to reasonable levels.

The US is currently the second highest taxed and regulated economy in the world for business. It's unprofitable to do business here thanks to all the social and environmental regulations and flaming hoops they have to jump through to do business here for manufacturing or now even technology work.

Libs forget that now in a global economy, capital and labor is mobile and will ALWAYS flow to the cheapest place to do business that will satisfy their needs as a business. We are no longer able to defend ourselves with two oceans to keep labor.

That is how you get business back. End a lot of regulations and find ways to be less of an impact on corporate profits.

Of course there is one OTHER thing I'd love to do to nations that artificially support their industries: Inverse Subsidy Tariffs. If a nation is subsidizing their business 20% of their costs as to steal our industry, then we should hit those same companies with a 20% tariff aimed directly at reducing our deficit, and cannot be diverted or used to allow more spending elsewhere. This would then put their prices at market normal levels as compared to non-subsidized companies, inspiring them to either move back home to the US or enjoy the privilege of helping our nation fight an economic war. Sorta like non-union members being forced to pay dues, while getting none of the benefits of being in the union.

I'm not sure I agree on the corporate tax thing. There are so many loopholes that the effective taxes never actually reach the levels they're supposed to be at.

Perhaps we could lower the corporate tax rate, and then eliminate the loopholes.

I completely agree with the rest though. China especially has been carrying on a one-sided trade war with us in the manner you describe, in addition to keeping their monetary values artificially low in order to undersell the competition.
 
Oct 09 07
Rises 120.80 to close at 14,164.53, first close above 14,100 - All time closing high
The DJIA has risen 6,878.26, or 94%, since the low point of Oct 9, 2002, 5 years ago

Though a great part of this rise was an artificially created bubble representing all the worthless derivatives that were in the system.

Once these were accounted for, the market corrected itself. Now I believe it is at a more rational level, without the derivative bubble.
 
Just to clarify,are these secret agents or airline ticket agents and are they hot?......

I wish I understood what you were saying,I got a headache reading halfway through it.....

Think about it this way. Economic activity is the money supply multiplied by the velocity of money, which is the speed at which money circulates through the economy, i.e. how often it changes hands. If suddenly everyone stopped transacting with each other, i.e. money velocity went to zero, the economy would collapse and GDP would be zero. Intuitively, that should make sense. If you decided to stop spending money, and everyone you knew stopped spending, and everyone they knew stopped spending money, and so on, there would be no economic activity. That's why it is an economic fallacy to assume that stimulus is a bad idea simply because it moves money from pile to pile. (There can be other reasons why stimulus is a bad idea.) If money isn't moving from pile to pile, then moving it from pile to pile stimulates economic growth. That's what the example above is attempting to demonstrate.

And yes, the chicks are hot.
Good analogy. It does explain the velocity of money concept very well. But in the real world - a huge percentage of the stimulus/Tarp money was not spent or even lent out. Therefore it had nearly ZERO velocity. The money was used to shore up bank reserves and/or increase bank profits. The money was borrowed at 0.25% from the FED. The banks turned right around and purchased long bonds from the Treasury that payed 4%. Net effect? Massive Profit for the bank with ZERO risk, and practically no stimulative effect to the economy. That is why the banks were able to pay back so quickly - compliments of the US Taxpayer.
 
janitors in New York City earn an average $20 an hour

http:http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/10-most-hopeful-trends/1424//

And that is the average, some must earn $25/hr.
And how is the City of New York doing financially these days? Fiscally sound and making more than it's taking?

They can't even run OTB at a profit.

The cost of living in New York city is extremely high relative to the rest of the nation, and employee compensation is extraordinarily high as a result. Otherwise employees could not afford to live in the New York area, and companies wouldn't have anyone able to work for them.

Of course, higher wages in this case does not actually provide a higher standard of living, since workers pay a higher price for just about everything.

A one bedroom apartment in Manhattan ran about $2000.00 a month last I checked, and that was some time ago, it's probably higher now.
 
Barb, I see you gave footnotes for your keynsian morons still allowed to teach in this nation due to tenure but are fucking clueless to common sense.

And if we break all the windows, we'll have a massive need for glass and window installation too and the government can subsidize that.

Every dollar taken from the private sector by government in taxes, since government produces nothing, it must take from the private sector, is a dollar lost to reinvestment or increasing productivity. What profits have the Great Society produced? All I see is debt produced. At least in the Great Depression, which by your logic should have been even MORE prosperous, gave us the TVA, Hoover Dam, Grand Coulee Dam and many other public work infrastructure projects.

So... the unions have done nothing to pressure employers with unsustainable wages and benefits forcing their costs to be higher? I see. It's all fiscal/monetary policy and Reagan's military build up after the Ford/Carter years of letting it fall into decline despite the soviet threat. Bollocks.

The original force still remains the same: It became cheaper and easier to move overseas because of the situation in the US became anti-business through the natural flux of bad fiscal policy, worse labor policy and abysmal environmental policy that went berzerk in the 1990s.

Do you have a source outside of the 1980's not written by a closet marxist professor with a hate on towards Reagan? We are talking about an out of control EPA looking to regulate a non pollutant for the sake of a hoax: Carbon Dioxide. Lead in the atmosphere is an honest to God pollutant. Quickly quantifiable as it does not naturally occur. This is part of what the EPA is supposed to deal with. Not play fuckaround fuckaround with political weather grandstanding. Sulfur Dioxide standards to help end acid rain were also good things.

The problem is that now these issues are defeated, they're looking for busy work and justification of expanding their budget by getting involved in the Global Warming (Hoax) debate by regulating a non-pollutant that has the possibility to get them involved in every aspect of your life from cradle to grave and then some.

The impact of this utter criminal stupidity is undeniably bad for this nation as the science 'proving' the threat has now been exposed as fraudulent by a bunch of anti-human hucksters, but yet they are pushing forward anyway despite the devastation even India, China, Russian and a few dozen more countries see as inevitable when enacted.

Know the difference between real threats like Love Canal, and imagined ones like Ozone Holes.

CORPORATE TAXES DIPSHIT! Not income taxes paid by their employees. Secondly, the war on poverty has done nothing but increase poverty and destroy the minority community and urban areas. They create dependency of government, creating an indigent class that believes that they are owed an existence on the backs of others. Give them work instead. BTW, when's the last time you got a job from a poor person? Instead of punishing them by stealing their money to give to ingrates, how about encouraging them to invest their excess wealth in businesses that create work for them? Hmmmmmm? Make em get off their lazy ass and work.

Oh and by the way, I'm working-poor here, so don't try that 'you don't know' shit with me. You ever worry about paying rent, or choosing food or gas in the car? I have. I've had to use these programs in the past and know from personal experience what a degrading experience it is to have to put your hand out for money you don't deserve. It was shocking to see how many people were like "just gimme my damn ebt card, I gotta get to go get some smokes".

You need some new information. Dr. John Lott's "Freedomnomics" may help you out some. He has more knowledge on economics than any of the pinheads you referred to. Or maybe even "An Inconvenient Book" by Glenn Beck. Better research than the ivory tower tards you brought out.

Otherwise, here. Try Jason Lewis's radio show.

Since economists have been straying away from Keynsian economic theory over the past 30 years, the debt has increased by 11 Trillion dollars (mainly under republican administrations), millions of jobs have fled overseas, and trade gaps have radically increased.

Now, which of these things would you say is proof that our slow general abandoning of Keynsianism was a good idea?

Just saying...
 
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I don't know...what did happen?

Can you point out specific legislation that crashed the economy?

Well, it wasn't between 2007 and 2008, but if I were to point to one piece of legislation, it would be the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000, which among other things, re-legalized derivative trading.

Of course, it's also important to point out that said legislation was enacted by a Republican congress, in a period where the Democratic President was an extreme lame duck, and did not have the votes to uphold a veto.

Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Housing is going back down again also. We're down and home prices are expected to drop another 10% this years. Don't expect any recovery anytime soon.
 
The last smart thing the US government built, really. The Department of Transportation and the Interstate Highway System. Oh wait... and NASA served it's purpose too.

But if you sat there and spent the money on you and friends going to dinner, and movies and things that have ongoing costs, with no ability to pay back the original loan... are you still richer?

That's why your investment Rocks is good for your wealth. You bought something tangible you can sell for a profit for it will have increased value. Our government on the other hand is buying meals and drinks and essentially throwing the money away with no real ability to pay back the original loan. Let alone using it to buy things that have greater costs, adding to their debt load even more.

It's amazing how obvious some things are once you have done double entry accounting by hand. Computers make fuckups of this kind so easy, it's incredible. (Yes Zander I know you're joking).

And the USDA, which created programs that massively increased agricultural production in the US.

The Hoover Dam was pretty worthwhile. At least all the people who use power from it will tell you it was.

The Marshall Plan certainly helped out post World War II Europe.

The Manhattan Project definitely accomplished what it set out to do, though many people might disagree that the net result was beneficial.

I could go on and on, and on...
 
Housing is going back down again also. We're down and home prices are expected to drop another 10% this years. Don't expect any recovery anytime soon.

Housing adjusts seasonally.

CSNovSeasonal.jpg (image)

However, home prices actually rose in most areas.

The Standard & Poor's/Case-Shiller home-price index of 20 major U.S. cities that was released Tuesday rose 0.2 percent in November, the sixth straight monthly gain. The index fell 5.3 percent compared with November 2008, slightly worse than the 5.1 percent decline expected by economists.

Business & Technology | U.S. home prices up sixth month in a row; Seattle down slightly | Seattle Times Newspaper
 
Good analogy. It does explain the velocity of money concept very well. But in the real world - a huge percentage of the stimulus/Tarp money was not spent or even lent out. Therefore it had nearly ZERO velocity. The money was used to shore up bank reserves and/or increase bank profits. The money was borrowed at 0.25% from the FED. The banks turned right around and purchased long bonds from the Treasury that payed 4%. Net effect? Massive Profit for the bank with ZERO risk, and practically no stimulative effect to the economy. That is why the banks were able to pay back so quickly - compliments of the US Taxpayer.

Thanks.

I would argue otherwise, and draw a big distinction between the TARP and the stimulus.

There is little doubt in my mind that the TARP Saved the World. Without the TARP and the government's actions, I am dead sure the financial system would have collapsed, and the economy along with it. Some smart people argue otherwise, but much of the credit markets had stopped working, and if the money markets had collapsed, we would be in the Great Depression 2.0 right now IMHO. Money velocity would have been much lower today had the government not stepped in.

As for the stimulus, it is hard to discern what effect it is having. There are three components to the stimulus - tax cuts, transfers to the states and extensions of current social programs, and spending on infrastructure. If you break down what has been spent thus far, it is ~40/40/20. Much of the infrastructure spending will kick in this and next year. In theory, if the money is well spent, then you will see multiplier effects. But whether or not it will be well spent remains to be seen.
 
Housing is going back down again also. We're down and home prices are expected to drop another 10% this years. Don't expect any recovery anytime soon.

Housing has been the blue collar guy's way to help his kids excel. Buys it at one price and by the time he dies it's worth way more. Kids get the house and sell it and develop a nice little nest egg. So many American traditions and avenues of progression have been stripped away from the average Joe. I wonder, broodingly, what is going to happen to average people.
 
GDP rise? Sounds good to me, but I'm loathe to believe it until more time has played out. I just don't trust them, could be cooking the books or all government spending.
 
GDP rise? Sounds good to me, but I'm loathe to believe it until more time has played out. I just don't trust them, could be cooking the books or all government spending.

It is a 5.7% increase based mostly on standard measures that have been used to measure the subject for decades.

I know the modern media has made the accuracy of all data relative, but for the purposes of comparing this number with prior GDP numbers, it has essentially the same level of accuracy.
 
The last smart thing the US government built, really. The Department of Transportation and the Interstate Highway System. Oh wait... and NASA served it's purpose too.

But if you sat there and spent the money on you and friends going to dinner, and movies and things that have ongoing costs, with no ability to pay back the original loan... are you still richer?

That's why your investment Rocks is good for your wealth. You bought something tangible you can sell for a profit for it will have increased value. Our government on the other hand is buying meals and drinks and essentially throwing the money away with no real ability to pay back the original loan. Let alone using it to buy things that have greater costs, adding to their debt load even more.

It's amazing how obvious some things are once you have done double entry accounting by hand. Computers make fuckups of this kind so easy, it's incredible. (Yes Zander I know you're joking).

And the USDA, which created programs that massively increased agricultural production in the US.

The Hoover Dam was pretty worthwhile. At least all the people who use power from it will tell you it was.

The Marshall Plan certainly helped out post World War II Europe.

The Manhattan Project definitely accomplished what it set out to do, though many people might disagree that the net result was beneficial.

I could go on and on, and on...

where would southern CA be without the federal water projects and such? Vegas would still be alittle cow town without Hoover Dam.
 
Housing is going back down again also. We're down and home prices are expected to drop another 10% this years. Don't expect any recovery anytime soon.

Housing has been the blue collar guy's way to help his kids excel. Buys it at one price and by the time he dies it's worth way more. Kids get the house and sell it and develop a nice little nest egg. So many American traditions and avenues of progression have been stripped away from the average Joe. I wonder, broodingly, what is going to happen to average people.

Except that the poster didn't mention who it was that predicted housing prices would drop another 10%.

In fact, I haven't heard ANYONE make a prediction anywhere near to this. Perhaps "concept" would like to share with us who his source might be...
 
Perhaps we could lower the corporate tax rate, and then eliminate the loopholes.

Ding! Done. Right there is what needs to be done to the ENTIRE tax code. No loopholes, low percentage, everybody pays.
 

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