US GDP rises 5.7%, but corporations aren't hiring

[Big Fitz]

The Marshall Plan certainly helped out post World War II Europe.

Actually the Deming plan was far better. The Marshall Plan was fairly wasteful, inefficient and redundant IIRC. Deming taught Japan how to rebuild themselves, till they became the powerhouse in the 1980's on the backs electronics and automotive quality and efficiency. The Marshall plan created a lot of dependancy that should have been avoided.

I wonder how much this "Big Brother" approach contibuted toward the Socialist tendencies of Europe of today...

Lots. Consider this. We are still paying for the defense of most of Europe versus the soviet bloc.

These nations for the most part have been then free to take their spending that SHOULD have gone towards military, and sunk it into social programs that have been rotting away the core of their nations.

We need to get out of Europe, quit playing defender of the western world and cutting off military aid to ingrates who deserve to suffer the price of defending one self instead of popping off behind their tougher brother back at their enemies.

 

[rightwinger]

Actually the Deming plan was far better. The Marshall Plan was fairly wasteful, inefficient and redundant IIRC. Deming taught Japan how to rebuild themselves, till they became the powerhouse in the 1980's on the backs electronics and automotive quality and efficiency. The Marshall plan created a lot of dependancy that should have been avoided.

I wonder how much this "Big Brother" approach contibuted toward the Socialist tendencies of Europe of today...

Lots. Consider this. We are still paying for the defense of most of Europe versus the soviet bloc.

These nations for the most part have been then free to take their spending that SHOULD have gone towards military, and sunk it into social programs that have been rotting away the core of their nations.

We need to get out of Europe, quit playing defender of the western world and cutting off military aid to ingrates who deserve to suffer the price of defending one self instead of popping off behind their tougher brother back at their enemies.

The EU is as big as the US economically. We should not be defending them.

 

[Big Fitz]

I wonder how much this "Big Brother" approach contibuted toward the Socialist tendencies of Europe of today...

Lots. Consider this. We are still paying for the defense of most of Europe versus the soviet bloc.

These nations for the most part have been then free to take their spending that SHOULD have gone towards military, and sunk it into social programs that have been rotting away the core of their nations.

We need to get out of Europe, quit playing defender of the western world and cutting off military aid to ingrates who deserve to suffer the price of defending one self instead of popping off behind their tougher brother back at their enemies.

The EU is as big as the US economically. We should not be defending them.

Yep. Time to cut the apron strings and the bugger run free.

 

[editec]

US GDP rises 5.7%, but corporations aren't hiring

The ZIPLESS fucking of Americans continues

 

[Chris]

I have more business than I have ever had.

But that is because most people are not willing to work seven days a week.

 

[Avatar4321]

Actually, I think the reason would be because they are expecting things to get worse because the current political field is creating an environment where predicting future profits difficult.

 

[Chris]

Lots. Consider this. We are still paying for the defense of most of Europe versus the soviet bloc.

These nations for the most part have been then free to take their spending that SHOULD have gone towards military, and sunk it into social programs that have been rotting away the core of their nations.

We need to get out of Europe, quit playing defender of the western world and cutting off military aid to ingrates who deserve to suffer the price of defending one self instead of popping off behind their tougher brother back at their enemies.

The EU is as big as the US economically. We should not be defending them.

Yep. Time to cut the apron strings and the bugger run free.

Something we can all agree on.

 

[Vast LWC]

Lots. Consider this. We are still paying for the defense of most of Europe versus the soviet bloc.

These nations for the most part have been then free to take their spending that SHOULD have gone towards military, and sunk it into social programs that have been rotting away the core of their nations.

We need to get out of Europe, quit playing defender of the western world and cutting off military aid to ingrates who deserve to suffer the price of defending one self instead of popping off behind their tougher brother back at their enemies.

We have been paying for the ENTIRE defense of Japan since WWII...

We paid for the defense of Western Europe, because we didn't trust the Germans with a large military.

Now, I agree with your last paragraph assertions entirely, but you can't blame our military choices of the last 50 years on the Marshall Plan.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

How much were last quarter's growth numbers revised downward, and how much of that "growth" is attributed to gubmint just throwing money around?

Inquiring minds want to know.

The majority of the growth in the forth quarter came from inventory adjustments.

Economists were expecting 4.7% growth. It came in at 5.7%.

Consumption rose 2.0%, better than expected.

Also, GDP may be revised upwards.

Uhhhhhh......Christmas shopping?

 

[Vast LWC]

Wow! When questioned on military strategy by an info babe who couched the question in the prevailing wisdom of the day, a general (retired) began his response with the words,"That's a load of crap!" I'm not sure why, but that interview came to mind when i read your post.

You say that Free Trade caused incomes to fall and apparently caused real estate prices to rise which caused the banks to lend more and led to the fall of the banking system. This train of logic has the engine in the middle.

Free Trade, as you imagine it, does not exist. It's heavily regulated and can be cut off or expanded at any time.

The quality of goods is a definable thing. Is it pretty? Durable? Ergonomic? Stylish?

The value of a thing (cost in relation to benefit) is less quantifiable, but can be "set" by sales records. If the Taurus outsells the Camry, the Taurus is probably a better value.

Trade allows the expansion of the number of things from which we choose to purchase those things that we need or want. More choices will usually expand quality in all directions. One of these directions is up. If the only way to safeguard "our jobs" is to limit our choices, that means we are choosing to reduce our upper end quality and reduce the value of those things that we purchase.

Citing Tarriffs as the ony way to save "our jobs" is conceeding that we can only mange to produce junk.

This last statement is disproved by your previous statement "Free Trade, as you imagine it, does not exist."

Since China is currently carrying on a one-sided trade war against us, imposing tariffs on them would be conceding nothing of the sort.

The rising real estate prices occurred because our lawmakers from both parties tampered with the banking system's lending procedures allowing loans to be issued to people who could not qualify to recieve them. This created a growing group of buyers competing to buy a stable group of properties.

By itself, however, this factor would not have formed a national crisis. If said loans were rated at the correct level of risk, they never would have been traded successfully as derivatives, and their worth would not have been over-valued by 50-60 times, which is what caused the massive bubble that formed.

Demand was greater than supply. The price of the proerties on the market rose as the demand continued to increase for 30 years.

Incorrect, the price was artificially inflated by wild speculation.

When the people who could not afford to pay back the loans did not pay back the loans, the "Sub Prime" burrowers, banks were left with "Toxic assets".

The toxic assets were worthless and the loan portfolios had plenty of cost but no value. Audits revealed this. The system collapsed.

The "toxic assets" would have had a negligible effect on the system if the risk had been correctly rated in the first place, and the derivative trading hadn't taken place.

The derivative trading was only legalized in 2000 with the Commodities Modernization Act.

The collapse was caused not by free trade, but by government tampering with free trade.

Also incorrect, as detailed above.

You now suggest further tampering with free trade to correct the tampering previously shown to be the cause. You propose treating asfixiation with a noose.

The simple truth is that the world is our market and our workers must compete in that market. We will prosper or perish. There is a natural selection process that ends species and an economic selection process that ends economies.

By choosing to cling to a bygone notion that is not supported by real world evidence, you are proposing to condemn us to extinction as an ecomomic power. You are proposing that we strive to become a footnote in history. You are proposing a future of fear, a future of surrender and a future of ever diminishing prosperity.

I don't like your proposals.

"Tampering" with free trade to stop such derivative trading from collapsing the market again in the future.

Such derivative trading was one of the primary causes of the crash of 1929, as well as this crash. After the first crash they made derivative trading illegal, a law that was only overturned by the Republican congress of 2000.

Further regulation will also be useful in making the largest banks smaller, thus insuring that the failure of one or a few institutions cannot cause the collapse of the entire economy.

Though, honestly, with the way Banks have been acting in concert concerning consumer credit, they should be able to be broken up through existing anti-trust laws.

 

[Vast LWC]

Uhhhhhh......Christmas shopping?

Christmas shopping was already taken into account before the unexpected rise occurred.

 

[Misty]

Only the innovation of the American people can bring back a better economy

Making payroll every week, for a private company, is the biggest part of business. If companies aren't hiring it's because they aren't bringing in enough money to hire people.

People aren't spending like they used to and the government can't fix that.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Uhhhhhh......Christmas shopping?

Christmas shopping was already taken into account before the unexpected rise occurred.

Oh...of course it was...we all know that they are able to predict how much money people will spend before they spend it. They had copies of Santa's gift list!!!

 

[Vast LWC]

Uhhhhhh......Christmas shopping?

Christmas shopping was already taken into account before the unexpected rise occurred.

Oh...of course it was...we all know that they are able to predict how much money people will spend before they spend it. They had copies of Santa's gift list!!!

Yes, it's called using historical data to make a prediction.

I know the whole "science" thing is antithetical to many of you right-winger types but seriously, crack open a book!