US Dollar in free fall

[MikeK]

pretty much the US needs to cut all spending. shrink the government completely. Get rid of all the handouts to both people and big business. Cut the deficit. do it now. not just a little, all of it. This country needs to run like a business, and business can't survive in the red forever.

This will never happen, but it is the only way to right the ship.

I frequently hear the, "get rid of handouts," refrain but it's never supported by specifics.

You've included big business in your recommendation, which is a plainly comprehensible specific and one I readily agree with. But your reference to "people" is entirely generic, so I can't say I agree or disagree with it.

Which "people" do you believe should be cut off from federal aid? All recipients? If so, how do you suggest we get rid of all the corpses that will derive from starvation and untreated illnesses? Burial? (Where?) Cremation (Hmmm.)

Have you thought about how to control the multitude of new homeless who will inhabit the Nation's streets? And have you considered the cost of policing and imprisoning the wave of property criminals who will necessarily need to steal and rob to survive?

I don't know how you feel about it but the thought of millions of dying, sick and hungry people living on the streets is rather depressing to me.

But if you wish to get rid of the "handouts" to only specific categories, please tell me which ones so I can either agree or disagree.

This converation could go a many of ways. Since it will never happen, there is no reason to argue but I would give you some specifics of an overall plan to reduce handouts and the deficits. I would pretty much just cut everything I could. Now don't get me wrong here, I think that most of these things are really good for society, but not for our debt, so as a business owner I would simply cut them. You are speaking from a quality of life issue and I am speaking fiscally. Eventually if we were to experience hyper inflation and the dollar collapsed and a loaf of bread was 10,000$, then your senario would play out anyway. It would be the same thing with people in the streets and crime you speak of. So why not try to prevent it ahead of time by cutting the things you can? Social programs have gotten out of control, and the government has grown to be too large. Also it would be temporary, and some things you could cut wouldn't even effect people in this country.

Absolutely zero funds going to:
foreign aid
illegal immigrants - free schooling, health, and everything else that entails,
Politicians (no salary at all, make it public service)
special interests - from planned parenthood, labratories, colleges, and companies, the government funds to many different things and it just needs to back off for now.

I would largely decrease funds to:
defense spending
New road construction
overall government - buildings, staff, panels,commitees, etc.
welfare
foodstamps
unemployment


Yes some of these last ones will hit home for you, and yes I believe they are necessary to some degree. As I said this would be scaled back to save money because it has proven that we are not sustainable at this rate of spending. I think you are over estimating the amount of people that would die, millions? Probably not. Just think of it as survival of the fittest and the USA population correcting itself to sustainable levels.

On the flip side, do you propose we just keep giving out more and more and more until we become a third world country?

Thank you for the intelligent and sensible reply. The following is an itemized response to your list of proposals:


Absolutely zero funds going to:

foreign aid. - I agree.

illegal immigrants - free schooling, health, and everything else that entails. - I agree.

Politicians (no salary at all, make it public service). - Offhand I don't think this is a practical idea because it invite only the independently wealthy to serve. But it's something to think about in the interest of attracting true statesmen to the task.

special interests - from planned parenthood, labratories, colleges, and companies, the government funds to many different things and it just needs to back off for now. - I agree.


I would largely decrease funds to:

defense spending. - I (strongly) agree!

New road construction. - Except for essential purposes, I agree.

overall government - buildings, staff, panels,commitees, etc. - I agree

welfare. - I believe there needs to be review and revision of existing programs.

foodstamps. - Same as above.

unemployment. - Same as above.


My pessimistic vision (re: millions dying in the streets) was based on my anticipating that you (like so many others who recommend cuts) would advocate eliminating Medicare and Social Security -- which undoubtedly would kill off millions of the totally dependent, mainly seniors.

As I'd mentioned, so many of the calls for budget reform I read in these forums come from smart-ass adolescent interlopers and indoctrinated water-carriers for the corporatocracy and the super-rich. These brainwashed acolytes, most of whom don't have a pot to piss in, are capable only of parroting Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity. Their specific ideas for "reform" consist of depriving mainly those who are most dependent.

So, again, thanks for the intelligently detailed reply.

 

[matty]

:

 

[Avorysuds]

pretty much the US needs to cut all spending. shrink the government completely. Get rid of all the handouts to both people and big business. Cut the deficit. do it now. not just a little, all of it. This country needs to run like a business, and business can't survive in the red forever.

This will never happen, but it is the only way to right the ship.

I frequently hear the, "get rid of handouts," refrain but it's never supported by specifics.

You've included big business in your recommendation, which is a plainly comprehensible specific and one I readily agree with. But your reference to "people" is entirely generic, so I can't say I agree or disagree with it.

Which "people" do you believe should be cut off from federal aid? All recipients? If so, how do you suggest we get rid of all the corpses that will derive from starvation and untreated illnesses? Burial? (Where?) Cremation (Hmmm.)

Have you thought about how to control the multitude of new homeless who will inhabit the Nation's streets? And have you considered the cost of policing and imprisoning the wave of property criminals who will necessarily need to steal and rob to survive?

I don't know how you feel about it but the thought of millions of dying, sick and hungry people living on the streets is rather depressing to me.

But if you wish to get rid of the "handouts" to only specific categories, please tell me which ones so I can either agree or disagree.

First you tell us who you will cut first when the country tanks due not making the make cuts early on when it still couldn't afford to be paying out for everyone's welfare.

What I'm asking you is, how can you claim to have moral higher ground in that you believe you are "saving people" today and pretending cuts will kill people when soon enough more drastic cuts will have to happen. Kill some today or kill a lot tomarrow... You pick.

 

[Avorysuds]

I frequently hear the, "get rid of handouts," refrain but it's never supported by specifics.

You've included big business in your recommendation, which is a plainly comprehensible specific and one I readily agree with. But your reference to "people" is entirely generic, so I can't say I agree or disagree with it.

Which "people" do you believe should be cut off from federal aid? All recipients? If so, how do you suggest we get rid of all the corpses that will derive from starvation and untreated illnesses? Burial? (Where?) Cremation (Hmmm.)

Have you thought about how to control the multitude of new homeless who will inhabit the Nation's streets? And have you considered the cost of policing and imprisoning the wave of property criminals who will necessarily need to steal and rob to survive?

I don't know how you feel about it but the thought of millions of dying, sick and hungry people living on the streets is rather depressing to me.

But if you wish to get rid of the "handouts" to only specific categories, please tell me which ones so I can either agree or disagree.

This converation could go a many of ways. Since it will never happen, there is no reason to argue but I would give you some specifics of an overall plan to reduce handouts and the deficits. I would pretty much just cut everything I could. Now don't get me wrong here, I think that most of these things are really good for society, but not for our debt, so as a business owner I would simply cut them. You are speaking from a quality of life issue and I am speaking fiscally. Eventually if we were to experience hyper inflation and the dollar collapsed and a loaf of bread was 10,000$, then your senario would play out anyway. It would be the same thing with people in the streets and crime you speak of. So why not try to prevent it ahead of time by cutting the things you can? Social programs have gotten out of control, and the government has grown to be too large. Also it would be temporary, and some things you could cut wouldn't even effect people in this country.

Absolutely zero funds going to:
foreign aid
illegal immigrants - free schooling, health, and everything else that entails,
Politicians (no salary at all, make it public service)
special interests - from planned parenthood, labratories, colleges, and companies, the government funds to many different things and it just needs to back off for now.

I would largely decrease funds to:
defense spending
New road construction
overall government - buildings, staff, panels,commitees, etc.
welfare
foodstamps
unemployment


Yes some of these last ones will hit home for you, and yes I believe they are necessary to some degree. As I said this would be scaled back to save money because it has proven that we are not sustainable at this rate of spending. I think you are over estimating the amount of people that would die, millions? Probably not. Just think of it as survival of the fittest and the USA population correcting itself to sustainable levels.

On the flip side, do you propose we just keep giving out more and more and more until we become a third world country?

Thank you for the intelligent and sensible reply. The following is an itemized response to your list of proposals:


Absolutely zero funds going to:

foreign aid. - I agree.

illegal immigrants - free schooling, health, and everything else that entails. - I agree.

Politicians (no salary at all, make it public service). - Offhand I don't think this is a practical idea because it invite only the independently wealthy to serve. But it's something to think about in the interest of attracting true statesmen to the task.

special interests - from planned parenthood, labratories, colleges, and companies, the government funds to many different things and it just needs to back off for now. - I agree.


I would largely decrease funds to:

defense spending. - I (strongly) agree!

New road construction. - Except for essential purposes, I agree.

overall government - buildings, staff, panels,commitees, etc. - I agree

welfare. - I believe there needs to be review and revision of existing programs.

foodstamps. - Same as above.

unemployment. - Same as above.


My pessimistic vision (re: millions dying in the streets) was based on my anticipating that you (like so many others who recommend cuts) would advocate eliminating Medicare and Social Security -- which undoubtedly would kill off millions of the totally dependent, mainly seniors.

As I'd mentioned, so many of the calls for budget reform I read in these forums come from smart-ass adolescent interlopers and indoctrinated water-carriers for the corporatocracy and the super-rich. These brainwashed acolytes, most of whom don't have a pot to piss in, are capable only of parroting Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity. Their specific ideas for "reform" consist of depriving mainly those who are most dependent.

So, again, thanks for the intelligently detailed reply.

SS and MC need to be looked at. Pretending that they are not a problem is childish.

The programs would be fine if we could fund them, however even with all the cuts and ending of wars you would still be in too much debt... These programs never stop consuming, they are not perfect and to many people have learned to "play the system."

 

[william the wie]

SS and MC need to be looked at. Pretending that they are not a problem is childish.

The programs would be fine if we could fund them, however even with all the cuts and ending of wars you would still be in too much debt... These programs never stop consuming, they are not perfect and to many people have learned to "play the system."

All true but the we are the cops of the world attitude has to end as well.

 

[Zander]

I have faith that the USD - aka "the best of the worst" or "the tallest midget in the circus" will rally.

 

[Avorysuds]

SS and MC need to be looked at. Pretending that they are not a problem is childish.

The programs would be fine if we could fund them, however even with all the cuts and ending of wars you would still be in too much debt... These programs never stop consuming, they are not perfect and to many people have learned to "play the system."

All true but the we are the cops of the world attitude has to end as well.

Ron Paul 2012 =D

 

[MikeK]

First you tell us who you will cut first when the country tanks due not making the make cuts early on when it still couldn't afford to be paying out for everyone's welfare.

Defense spending. <============ (Number One!)

Corporate subsidies.

All non-essential "pork" projects.

Corporate and individuals over $1m tax loopholes.


I wouldn't wait for the country to "tank." I'd start making those cuts right now. And I would restore the income tax rate to the pre-Reagan level -- as well as restoring every regulation that phony, dimwitted corporatist puppet removed.

I would impose a tax on every stock transaction executed, a 50% tax on inheritances over $1m and all corporate bonuses.

And I expect to read angry protests from a lot of Ayn Rand worshippers, most if not all of whom don't have a pot to piss in but who harbor the cultist mentality and little else.

 

[editec]

When the dollar tanks nobody is going to have to DECIDE to stop funding our military.

That will happen regardless of what we'd LIKE to happen.

This makes some of us wonder if destruction of our econmony hasn't been THE PLAN all along.

It was either THE PLAN, or the USA is becoming another example of an enoromous national TRAGEDY OF THE COMMONS.

But tragedies of the commons are to be expected any time any society decides that GREED IS GOOD.

In fact GREED IS GOOD is the number one cause of most tragedies of the commons.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Social programs and military spending will fall off the cliff once the dollar is over the cliff.

 

[Toro]

The Bernank is a Gold Bug's best friend.

 

[expat_panama]

...look no further than Capitol Hill and 1600 Pennsylvania Ave to point the finger. Oh you can add the Federal Reserve as well.
Anything which ties it's value to the US Dollar will see huge price increases for the foreseeable future due to out of control government spending...

Hey, I like pointing fingers as much as the next guy but how about we also try and hang on to reality.

In this wonderful information age we live in anyone can look at past exchange rates (from say, the Fed here) and compare them to the CPI (from the BLS here) or the federal budget history (from the GPO here).

First, government spending and the dollar aren't affecting each other--

--and second, a falling dollar has not increased inflation:

Sure, people can say that the facts don't sense and that the newspapers say otherwise, but reality is what is and it doesn't have to make sense and get reported.

 

[Mr Liberty]

The US peso.

I will pedict this though. Sometime within the next 12-18 months there is going to be a violent rally in the dollar and precious metals are going to get hammered. But you should put zero credence in predictions.

What will cause this dollar rally? The reason for the dollars slide is the Feds debasing policy. Are they going to start burning dollars in the next year? I think the dollar will continue its fall. The G20 are talking about a new reserve currency and a new global central bank. When the dollar is removed as the reserve currency, we will have hyperinflation.
I'll hang onto my silver.

 

[Avorysuds]

First you tell us who you will cut first when the country tanks due not making the make cuts early on when it still couldn't afford to be paying out for everyone's welfare.

Defense spending. <============ (Number One!)

Corporate subsidies.

All non-essential "pork" projects.

Corporate and individuals over $1m tax loopholes.


I wouldn't wait for the country to "tank." I'd start making those cuts right now. And I would restore the income tax rate to the pre-Reagan level -- as well as restoring every regulation that phony, dimwitted corporatist puppet removed.

I would impose a tax on every stock transaction executed, a 50% tax on inheritances over $1m and all corporate bonuses.

And I expect to read angry protests from a lot of Ayn Rand worshippers, most if not all of whom don't have a pot to piss in but who harbor the cultist mentality and little else.

Ok, you're still short, now answer the question... Who gets cuts, people, you know like you meant. People on SS/Welfare/MC.

"a 50% tax on inheritances " Lol, go fuck yourself you greedy pos. You are part what's wrong with this country and that's not a joke.

You're not even worth talking to be honest. Not only did you not fix the problem you seem to perpetuate the other half of the problem. Sure, cut military (wars) but the fact you believe that is all that is needed is laff out loud funny. Even with all you “new taxes” (that have consequences btw) you STILL fall short, like almost 1 trillion short I believe, LOL.

 

[thereisnospoon]

First you tell us who you will cut first when the country tanks due not making the make cuts early on when it still couldn't afford to be paying out for everyone's welfare.

Defense spending. <============ (Number One!)

Corporate subsidies.

All non-essential "pork" projects.

Corporate and individuals over $1m tax loopholes.


I wouldn't wait for the country to "tank." I'd start making those cuts right now. And I would restore the income tax rate to the pre-Reagan level -- as well as restoring every regulation that phony, dimwitted corporatist puppet removed.

I would impose a tax on every stock transaction executed, a 50% tax on inheritances over $1m and all corporate bonuses.

And I expect to read angry protests from a lot of Ayn Rand worshippers, most if not all of whom don't have a pot to piss in but who harbor the cultist mentality and little else.

and what would such confiscatory socialist style taxes accomplish?
More money for government to waste? To feed the trough for more freeloading gamers of the system?
Why is it you liberals never consider fiscal responsibility, reduction of the number of government employees or a balanced budget amendment?
Why is your end game "increase taxes on everyone is sight?
Look, when government increases taxes on business, the end user always pays them. That's us. The consumer. When those who have investment capital are over taxed, they stop spending and investing. Jobs disappear and new ones are not created. Fewer taxpayers and less investment translate to lower tax revenues.
The only conclusion a logical person came come to is that the Left views taxation as means to punish.
The argument that government can create jobs is one of failure. Oh sure government can create jobs but those jobs are non producing. Government employment simply creates government spending deficits because simply appointing a new "czar" or hiring new people to staff the Capitol landscaping crews takes more money way from the private sector.
Wealth and production are created from the private sector. With more money going to government the private sector suffers. The result is smaller GDP.
Government borrowing and excessive spending has created a necessity to print more dollars. That has resulted in the value of the Dollar shrinking to 30 year lows. The US Dollar has not been this weak since the Carter years.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The US peso.

I will pedict this though. Sometime within the next 12-18 months there is going to be a violent rally in the dollar and precious metals are going to get hammered. But you should put zero credence in predictions.

What will cause this dollar rally? The reason for the dollars slide is the Feds debasing policy. Are they going to start burning dollars in the next year? I think the dollar will continue its fall. The G20 are talking about a new reserve currency and a new global central bank. When the dollar is removed as the reserve currency, we will have hyperinflation.
I'll hang onto my silver.

The main problem is the federal government has monetized the debt. In other words, the federal reserve has simply created more currency to offset government spending. Of course this policy is suicidal. And to sweeten the pot, the Fed continues to hold interest rates to unrealistic levels.
Interest rates need to rise and credit needs to be tightened.
The economy is cyclical. The down cycle is being stagnated by government interference. The more govt interferes, the longer this economic malaise will last.
Precious metals are the correct investment. However, most people cannot afford to buy futures contracts, Buying physical Gold or Silver carries with it commission obligations when gold is purchased and when it is sold.

 

[expat_panama]

...the federal reserve has simply created more currency to offset government spending. Of course this policy is suicidal...

Seems like what's really happening is that most Americans measure price trends with tools like the PCE deflator, the CPI-U, etc., and then regulate the dollar's value at a couple percent above last year's prices.

Tell me why you're saying this is suicidal.

 

[thereisnospoon]

...the federal reserve has simply created more currency to offset government spending. Of course this policy is suicidal...

Seems like what's really happening is that most Americans measure price trends with tools like the PCE deflator, the CPI-U, etc., and then regulate the dollar's value at a couple percent above last year's prices.

Tell me why you're saying this is suicidal.

Simple....As the Dollar free falls vs major currencies, the Dollar comes under the type of scrutiny we do not want. That is perhaps most troubling of all. Suppose the largest holders of US Federal debt decide because of the pace of US borrowing and the rapidly declining value of the dollar, decide to sell off their paper at rock bottom values?
Additionally, a call could be made to suspend the Dollar as the basis currency for oil and other futures. Does this not trigger a red flag for you?
How much longer and how much more are you willing to see the US go into debt and how much larger can you stand to see deficit spending go on?
How much higher must the price of energy rise before you say "enough"?
Look, a nation's government cannot continue to run up mega-deficits without dire consequences. Examples of consequences can be witnessed with the near collapse of Portugal and Greece. As a matter of fact the World Bank( which gets the majority of it's funding from the US) had to bail out both countries. We cannot even fund our own essential government functions and our government has to take care of foreign interests.
Here's the real deal......Federal spending must be slashed over time. Dramatically. The Federal Reserve MUST stop printing money to cover deficits.
DO you understand that as a nation we are broke. Yes. The projected deficit over the next 10 years is EQUAL to the entire net worth of all US owned assets. Federal spending now is at the highest percentage of GDP....Ever....
That MUST end.

 

[expat_panama]

Seems like what's really happening is that most Americans measure price trends with tools like the PCE deflator, the CPI-U, etc., and then regulate the dollar's value at a couple percent above last year's prices.

Tell me why you're saying this is suicidal.

Simple....As the Dollar free falls vs major currencies,

OK, if we're talking politics and what everyone says then we're agreed that the buzz is that dollars are worthless. In real life we keep our dollars locked up safe becuase we know they're worth well, money. When we personally go to exchange our dollars for foreign money we know it's stable:

Real life/politics. I've never been comfortalble with double think.

Suppose the largest holders of US Federal debt decide because of the pace of US borrowing and the rapidly declining value of the dollar, decide to sell off their paper at rock bottom values?

--you mean, the People's Republic is selling $10k T-bills for fifty cents each first come first serve while they last? In real life I'd buy all I could as would a world of bond traders. I'd make a fortune and China would loose trillions.

Additionally, a call could be made to suspend the Dollar as the basis currency for oil and other futures. Does this not trigger a red flag for you?

China loosing trillions would hurt the Yaun not the dollar.

How much longer and how much more are you willing to see the US go into debt and how much larger can you stand to see deficit spending go on?

The national debt's important, and treasury notes are traded in dollars, not foreign money.

You had lots of other good stuff there but like I said we're talking in different worlds, political banter vs. real life.

 

[Gadawg73]

pretty much the US needs to cut all spending. shrink the government completely. Get rid of all the handouts to both people and big business. Cut the deficit. do it now. not just a little, all of it. This country needs to run like a business, and business can't survive in the red forever.

This will never happen, but it is the only way to right the ship.

I frequently hear the, "get rid of handouts," refrain but it's never supported by specifics.

You've included big business in your recommendation, which is a plainly comprehensible specific and one I readily agree with. But your reference to "people" is entirely generic, so I can't say I agree or disagree with it.

Which "people" do you believe should be cut off from federal aid? All recipients? If so, how do you suggest we get rid of all the corpses that will derive from starvation and untreated illnesses? Burial? (Where?) Cremation (Hmmm.)

Have you thought about how to control the multitude of new homeless who will inhabit the Nation's streets? And have you considered the cost of policing and imprisoning the wave of property criminals who will necessarily need to steal and rob to survive?

I don't know how you feel about it but the thought of millions of dying, sick and hungry people living on the streets is rather depressing to me.

But if you wish to get rid of the "handouts" to only specific categories, please tell me which ones so I can either agree or disagree.

This converation could go a many of ways. Since it will never happen, there is no reason to argue but I would give you some specifics of an overall plan to reduce handouts and the deficits. I would pretty much just cut everything I could. Now don't get me wrong here, I think that most of these things are really good for society, but not for our debt, so as a business owner I would simply cut them. You are speaking from a quality of life issue and I am speaking fiscally. Eventually if we were to experience hyper inflation and the dollar collapsed and a loaf of bread was 10,000$, then your senario would play out anyway. It would be the same thing with people in the streets and crime you speak of. So why not try to prevent it ahead of time by cutting the things you can? Social programs have gotten out of control, and the government has grown to be too large. Also it would be temporary, and some things you could cut wouldn't even effect people in this country.

Absolutely zero funds going to:
foreign aid
illegal immigrants - free schooling, health, and everything else that entails,
Politicians (no salary at all, make it public service)
special interests - from planned parenthood, labratories, colleges, and companies, the government funds to many different things and it just needs to back off for now.

I would largely decrease funds to:
defense spending
New road construction
overall government - buildings, staff, panels,commitees, etc.
welfare
foodstamps
unemployment


Yes some of these last ones will hit home for you, and yes I believe they are necessary to some degree. As I said this would be scaled back to save money because it has proven that we are not sustainable at this rate of spending. I think you are over estimating the amount of people that would die, millions? Probably not. Just think of it as survival of the fittest and the USA population correcting itself to sustainable levels.

On the flip side, do you propose we just keep giving out more and more and more until we become a third world country?

No salaries for politicians? Make it public service.
That assures only the wealthy will run.
Who in their right mind goes to Washington, spends 50K out of their own pocket to live there and gives up another 100K a year in lost wages?
Who has 150K a year to burn?
You need to think on that one again.