Us conservatives need to admit, but

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -- Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson never said that...it is rightwing dogma

The Right’s Library of Fake Quotes

. When widely syndicated columnist Cal Thomas posted a commentary on his website (1/15/09) opposing federal bailouts, he cited quotes from Thomas Jefferson to bolster his argument:

“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not”; It is incumbent on every generation to pay off its own debts as it goes. A principle, which, if acted on would save us one-half of the wars of the world”; “I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them”; and, “My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.


Thomas described these quotes as “ancient wisdom,” which, he said, “is almost always better than what people come up with today. Consider that it became ancient because it was wise.”

But consulting The Works of Thomas Jefferson available in full at the Online Liberty Library, as well as the Library of Congress’ online Jefferson site, Ed Darrel of Millard Fillmore’s Bathtub (2/1/09) could find no evidence authenticating any of the quotes. [See correction below.] As Darrel, whose website targets historical falsehood, observed, “Jefferson seem[ed] oddly prescient in these quotes, and, also oddly, rather endorsing the views of the right wing.”

None of the quotes could be authenticated on the Jefferson Library website (Thomas Jefferson) either, which includes the first and the last quotes in Thomas’ column in its list of frequently cited “Spurious Quotations.”

Not to mention....if you take a tour of Monticello, like I did this Summer with my wife.....You will find that:

A. Jefferson INHERITED a large chunk of Virginia....from where Monticello sits down to the Natural Bridge area...He actually owned the Natural Bridge itself.

B. Over the years of his life, he had to sell piece by piece of all that property to pay off debts....and of course to fund UVA. He also had to sell his extensive library, once again....to pay off debts.

C. When he died....the entire Monticello estate had to be sold.....to.....guess what? Pay off debts. He left his family virtually nothing.

Good point

You would also have to consider there were no governments in existence at the time of Jefferson that would take money from those who worked and give it to those who didn't. If you worked, you gave money to the crown. If you didn't work.....you begged
 
worry about grammar
not the 5000 dollars I will lose when GWB tax cuts expire
Never give up
The Main stream media as well as the millions who think we are okay looks to re elect BHO

From 1994 through 2006 the GOP congress ran this country like a swiss watch
GWB was handed 9-11, Enron and the 100s of enrons that the Media ignored
A recession
yet deficits were minimal until the 1st democratic budget
Jobs have been many from RR tax cuts of the 80s, until the GOP lost the congress in 07 and GWB became lame duck

Millions are leaving the work force, they have no hope
real UE well over 14%
deficits in the trillions

That is what the main stream media ignores
B Franklin stated "When the people find they can vote themselves money,
that will herald the end of the republic."

this is what we have today. Romney stated the truth, the media will not rest until election day with that truth

Do not ever give up, its only our freedom and wealth that BHO wants
Freedom from the ability to prosper
to have hope, that is not in the form of a handout

4 more years of this? get ready
it is coming

watch this
This just in...no WMDs were found in Iraq.
Where were such geniuses as you during the 8 years that Bubba Clintoon was enforcing economic sanctions, enforcing "no fly zones", and lobbing bombs at Baghdad when he needed to get his willy of the front page of the newspaper?

That's right...You were cowering out in the tall grass, if not making excuses for him.
 
Attacking Thomas Jefferson?
Wow, that is an event I would never have dreamed of
What are you liberals so scared of? the truth?
BHO will be re-elected because there are those of us who work and there are those who do not. He has shown to those that who do not he will take my money and give it to you
No other reason

BTW helping those who need it has always been there
Helping those who do not need it has too


Look at the statistics of those who have left the work force and been added to government support during his tenure and you will find out why he will be re-elected

So

No matter who said it first, it is a fact. BHO will be re elected for that reason and that reason only. the republic we knew died in 2008
 
worry about grammar
not the 5000 dollars I will lose when GWB tax cuts expire
Never give up
The Main stream media as well as the millions who think we are okay looks to re elect BHO

From 1994 through 2006 the GOP congress ran this country like a swiss watch
GWB was handed 9-11, Enron and the 100s of enrons that the Media ignored
A recession
yet deficits were minimal until the 1st democratic budget
Jobs have been many from RR tax cuts of the 80s, until the GOP lost the congress in 07 and GWB became lame duck

Millions are leaving the work force, they have no hope
real UE well over 14%
deficits in the trillions

That is what the main stream media ignores
B Franklin stated "When the people find they can vote themselves money,
that will herald the end of the republic."

this is what we have today. Romney stated the truth, the media will not rest until election day with that truth

Do not ever give up, its only our freedom and wealth that BHO wants
Freedom from the ability to prosper
to have hope, that is not in the form of a handout

4 more years of this? get ready
it is coming

When Obama leaves office in 2017 and everything in the Nation is fine and dandy, will you return to this thread and admit you were wrong?
 
I would not call half trillion dollar deficits "minimal". Far from it!

They might look puny compared to Obama's deficits, by "minimal" is not the word for Bush's deficits.

Face it. Democrats are the "tax and spend" party, Republicans are the "borrow and spend" party.

.

that little event that occurred on 9-11 is why GWB had deficits until 2008 and 2009
The GOP congress balanced the budget and that never changes if not for the changes 9-11 brought us


Actually, this is untrue.

The reason Bush gave for his eponymous tax cuts is because there was supposedly all this extra surplus money laying around after Clinton, and Bush felt that money belonged to the American people.

I hope you'll join me in standing firmly on the side of the people. You see, the growing surplus exists because taxes are too high, and government is charging more than it needs. The people of America have been overcharged, and, on their behalf, I'm here asking for a refund.

By the way, that's an open admission that higher taxes bring higher revenues right there!



The Bush Tax Cuts™ came in two installments. One before 9/11, and one long after.

So why did Bush give that money back to the people when that money was not really there? Why did he give tax cuts that he admitted would lower revenues if he was going to be running up spending into half trillion dollar deficits?

Because the GOP is the party of "borrow and spend".

.
 
Last edited:
Attacking Thomas Jefferson?
Wow, that is an event I would never have dreamed of
What are you liberals so scared of? the truth?
BHO will be re-elected because there are those of us who work and there are those who do not. He has shown to those that who do not he will take my money and give it to you
No other reason

BTW helping those who need it has always been there
Helping those who do not need it has too


Look at the statistics of those who have left the work force and been added to government support during his tenure and you will find out why he will be re-elected

So

No matter who said it first, it is a fact. BHO will be re elected for that reason and that reason only. the republic we knew died in 2008

Who's attacking....I was just pointing out some interesting facts I learned on vacation.
 
worry about grammar
not the 5000 dollars I will lose when GWB tax cuts expire
Never give up
The Main stream media as well as the millions who think we are okay looks to re elect BHO

From 1994 through 2006 the GOP congress ran this country like a swiss watch
GWB was handed 9-11, Enron and the 100s of enrons that the Media ignored
A recession
yet deficits were minimal until the 1st democratic budget
Jobs have been many from RR tax cuts of the 80s, until the GOP lost the congress in 07 and GWB became lame duck

Millions are leaving the work force, they have no hope
real UE well over 14%
deficits in the trillions

That is what the main stream media ignores
B Franklin stated "When the people find they can vote themselves money,
that will herald the end of the republic."

this is what we have today. Romney stated the truth, the media will not rest until election day with that truth

Do not ever give up, its only our freedom and wealth that BHO wants
Freedom from the ability to prosper
to have hope, that is not in the form of a handout

4 more years of this? get ready
it is coming

watch this
This just in...no WMDs were found in Iraq.
Where were such geniuses as you during the 8 years that Bubba Clintoon was enforcing economic sanctions, enforcing "no fly zones", and lobbing bombs at Baghdad when he needed to get his willy of the front page of the newspaper?

That's right...You were cowering out in the tall grass, if not making excuses for him.

CC your still on ignore, you got through because of a reply
I love doing this


Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says

By Samantha L. Quigley
American Forces Press Service
WASHINGTON, June 29, 2006 – The 500 munitions discovered throughout Iraq since 2003 and discussed in a National Ground Intelligence Center report meet the criteria of weapons of mass destruction, the center's commander said here today.
"These are chemical weapons as defined under the Chemical Weapons Convention, and yes ... they do constitute weapons of mass destruction," Army Col. John Chu told the House Armed Services Committee.
The Chemical Weapons Convention is an arms control agreement which outlaws the production, stockpiling and use of chemical weapons. It was signed in 1993 and entered into force in 1997.
The munitions found contain sarin and mustard gases, Army Lt. Gen. Michael D. Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, said. Sarin attacks the neurological system and is potentially lethal.
"Mustard is a blister agent (that) actually produces burning of any area (where) an individual may come in contact with the agent," he said. It also is potentially fatal if it gets into a person's lungs.
The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added.

Defense.gov News Article: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says

The bottom line is Saddam had to go
The democratic party voted in majority to do just that, October 2002
 
Attacking Thomas Jefferson?
Wow, that is an event I would never have dreamed of
What are you liberals so scared of? the truth?
BHO will be re-elected because there are those of us who work and there are those who do not. He has shown to those that who do not he will take my money and give it to you
No other reason

BTW helping those who need it has always been there
Helping those who do not need it has too


Look at the statistics of those who have left the work force and been added to government support during his tenure and you will find out why he will be re-elected

So

No matter who said it first, it is a fact. BHO will be re elected for that reason and that reason only. the republic we knew died in 2008

Who's attacking....I was just pointing out some interesting facts I learned on vacation.

If you would also had mentioned the good things that great man did, I would not have stated the obvious
the thread is about the obvious
Obama wins
He wins for the very reason who ever made that statement, none other
class warfare
redistribution of wealth
the end of this great republic as we know it
 
Attacking Thomas Jefferson?
Wow, that is an event I would never have dreamed of
What are you liberals so scared of? the truth?
BHO will be re-elected because there are those of us who work and there are those who do not. He has shown to those that who do not he will take my money and give it to you
No other reason

BTW helping those who need it has always been there
Helping those who do not need it has too


Look at the statistics of those who have left the work force and been added to government support during his tenure and you will find out why he will be re-elected

So

No matter who said it first, it is a fact. BHO will be re elected for that reason and that reason only. the republic we knew died in 2008

Who attacked him?

You are the one posting made up quotes
 
I would not call half trillion dollar deficits "minimal". Far from it!

They might look puny compared to Obama's deficits, by "minimal" is not the word for Bush's deficits.

Face it. Democrats are the "tax and spend" party, Republicans are the "borrow and spend" party.

.

that little event that occurred on 9-11 is why GWB had deficits until 2008 and 2009
The GOP congress balanced the budget and that never changes if not for the changes 9-11 brought us


Actually, this is untrue.

The reason Bush gave for his eponymous tax cuts is because there was supposedly all this extra surplus money laying around after Clinton, and Bush felt that money belonged to the American people.

I hope you'll join me in standing firmly on the side of the people. You see, the growing surplus exists because taxes are too high, and government is charging more than it needs. The people of America have been overcharged, and, on their behalf, I'm here asking for a refund.

By the way, that's an open admission that higher taxes bring higher revenues right there!



The Bush Tax Cuts™ came in two installments. One before 9/11, and one long after.

So why did Bush give that money back to the people when that money was not really there? Why did he give tax cuts that he admitted would lower revenues if he was going to be running up spending into half trillion dollar deficits?

Because the GOP is the party of "borrow and spend".

.

What does those tax cuts have to do with the additional spending 9-11 brought us?
As the Wall Street Journal’s Stephen Moore illuminates in his 2008 book “The End of Prosperity” (Threshold Editions), Mr. Bush’s 2001 tax cuts failed to revive an economy still staggering from the bursting of the dot-com bubble. Mr. Bush’s strategy had been to adopt a demand-side, Keynesian stimulus, hoping that putting a few extra dollars in Americans’ pockets would jump-start the economy through increased consumption. This approach faltered, not just because Americans opted to save their rebates, but because it neglected the importance of business investment to overall growth. Predictably, the economy lagged and government revenues stagnated. What the United States needed then (and needs now) was to stimulate investment, not consumption.
By 2003, Mr. Bush grasped this lesson. In that year, he cut the dividend and capital gains rates to 15 percent each, and the economy responded. In two years, stocks rose 20 percent. In three years, $15 trillion of new wealth was created. The U.S. economy added 8 million new jobs from mid-2003 to early 2007, and the median household increased its wealth by $20,000 in real terms.
But the real jolt for tax-cutting opponents was that the 03 Bush tax cuts also generated a massive increase in federal tax receipts. From 2004 to 2007, federal tax revenues increased by $785 billion, the largest four-year increase in American history. According to the Treasury Department, individual and corporate income tax receipts were up 40 percent in the three years following the Bush tax cuts. And (bonus) the rich paid an even higher percentage of the total tax burden than they had at any time in at least the previous 40 years. This was news to theNew York Times, whose astonished editorial board could only describe the gains as a “surprise windfall.”


Read more: DWYER: Bush tax cuts boosted federal revenue - Washington Times DWYER: Bush tax cuts boosted federal revenue - Washington Times
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
 
I would not call half trillion dollar deficits "minimal". Far from it!

They might look puny compared to Obama's deficits, by "minimal" is not the word for Bush's deficits.

Face it. Democrats are the "tax and spend" party, Republicans are the "borrow and spend" party.

.

that little event that occurred on 9-11 is why GWB had deficits until 2008 and 2009
The GOP congress balanced the budget and that never changes if not for the changes 9-11 brought us


Actually, this is untrue.

The reason Bush gave for his eponymous tax cuts is because there was supposedly all this extra surplus money laying around after Clinton, and Bush felt that money belonged to the American people.

I hope you'll join me in standing firmly on the side of the people. You see, the growing surplus exists because taxes are too high, and government is charging more than it needs. The people of America have been overcharged, and, on their behalf, I'm here asking for a refund.
By the way, that's an open admission that higher taxes bring higher revenues right there!



The Bush Tax Cuts™ came in two installments. One before 9/11, and one long after.

So why did Bush give that money back to the people when that money was not really there? Why did he give tax cuts that he admitted would lower revenues if he was going to be running half trillion dollar deficits?

Because the GOP is the party of "borrow and spend".

.

It also shouldn't be forgotten that Bush used multiple reasons for the tax cut. Originally, when there WAS a surplus, Bush's 'reasoning' was that the US should return the money to the taxpayer. When the surplus was gone, his 'reasoning' changed...more than once.

The point is that the reason we were given was ALWAYS a manufactured rationale to do what they simply wanted to do, regardless of the economics surrounding the reasons we were offered as an explanation.

This is the reason why conservatives have been mocked as embracing tax cuts as a solution to each and every problem. Give them half an opportunity, and conservative Republicans will create an argument to support tax cuts as a solution to any economic problem...even when a tax cut will worsen the very deficit they say is in dire need of being reigned in.
 
that little event that occurred on 9-11 is why GWB had deficits until 2008 and 2009
The GOP congress balanced the budget and that never changes if not for the changes 9-11 brought us


Actually, this is untrue.

The reason Bush gave for his eponymous tax cuts is because there was supposedly all this extra surplus money laying around after Clinton, and Bush felt that money belonged to the American people.

I hope you'll join me in standing firmly on the side of the people. You see, the growing surplus exists because taxes are too high, and government is charging more than it needs. The people of America have been overcharged, and, on their behalf, I'm here asking for a refund.
By the way, that's an open admission that higher taxes bring higher revenues right there!



The Bush Tax Cuts™ came in two installments. One before 9/11, and one long after.

So why did Bush give that money back to the people when that money was not really there? Why did he give tax cuts that he admitted would lower revenues if he was going to be running half trillion dollar deficits?

Because the GOP is the party of "borrow and spend".

.

It also shouldn't be forgotten that Bush used multiple reasons for the tax cut. Originally, when there WAS a surplus, Bush's 'reasoning' was that the US should return the money to the taxpayer. When the surplus was gone, his 'reasoning' changed...more than once.

The point is that the reason we were given was ALWAYS a manufactured rationale to do what they simply wanted to do, regardless of the economics surrounding the reasons we were offered as an explanation.

This is the reason why conservatives have been mocked as embracing tax cuts as a solution to each and every problem. Give them half an opportunity, and conservative Republicans will create an argument to support tax cuts as a solution to any economic problem...even when a tax cut will worsen the very deficit they say is in dire need of being reigned in.

Let make this simple
I keep more wealth, I create wealth

As the Wall Street Journal’s Stephen Moore illuminates in his 2008 book “The End of Prosperity” (Threshold Editions), Mr. Bush’s 2001 tax cuts failed to revive an economy still staggering from the bursting of the dot-com bubble. Mr. Bush’s strategy had been to adopt a demand-side, Keynesian stimulus, hoping that putting a few extra dollars in Americans’ pockets would jump-start the economy through increased consumption. This approach faltered, not just because Americans opted to save their rebates, but because it neglected the importance of business investment to overall growth. Predictably, the economy lagged and government revenues stagnated. What the United States needed then (and needs now) was to stimulate investment, not consumption.
By 2003, Mr. Bush grasped this lesson. In that year, he cut the dividend and capital gains rates to 15 percent each, and the economy responded. In two years, stocks rose 20 percent. In three years, $15 trillion of new wealth was created. The U.S. economy added 8 million new jobs from mid-2003 to early 2007, and the median household increased its wealth by $20,000 in real terms.
But the real jolt for tax-cutting opponents was that the 03 Bush tax cuts also generated a massive increase in federal tax receipts. From 2004 to 2007, federal tax revenues increased by $785 billion, the largest four-year increase in American history. According to the Treasury Department, individual and corporate income tax receipts were up 40 percent in the three years following the Bush tax cuts. And (bonus) the rich paid an even higher percentage of the total tax burden than they had at any time in at least the previous 40 years. This was news to theNew York Times, whose astonished editorial board could only describe the gains as a “surprise windfall.”


Read more: DWYER: Bush tax cuts boosted federal revenue - Washington Times DWYER: Bush tax cuts boosted federal revenue - Washington Times
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
 
Also let us not forget the real reason(s) we had a surplus
A GOP congress

Jobs

Our deficit has came from additional spending due to 9-11, no child left behind, Katrina and the 6-7 other major storms we had during those 2 years and medicare part B
no 9-11 we have close to a surplus in 2007, 2002 and 2006 along with the cost of Katrina and those other major hurricanes

It was in control until 2007, when the democratic party took control and of course the great recession of 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012
still here
 
Last edited:
Actually, this is untrue.

The reason Bush gave for his eponymous tax cuts is because there was supposedly all this extra surplus money laying around after Clinton, and Bush felt that money belonged to the American people.

By the way, that's an open admission that higher taxes bring higher revenues right there!



The Bush Tax Cuts™ came in two installments. One before 9/11, and one long after.

So why did Bush give that money back to the people when that money was not really there? Why did he give tax cuts that he admitted would lower revenues if he was going to be running half trillion dollar deficits?

Because the GOP is the party of "borrow and spend".

.

It also shouldn't be forgotten that Bush used multiple reasons for the tax cut. Originally, when there WAS a surplus, Bush's 'reasoning' was that the US should return the money to the taxpayer. When the surplus was gone, his 'reasoning' changed...more than once.

The point is that the reason we were given was ALWAYS a manufactured rationale to do what they simply wanted to do, regardless of the economics surrounding the reasons we were offered as an explanation.

This is the reason why conservatives have been mocked as embracing tax cuts as a solution to each and every problem. Give them half an opportunity, and conservative Republicans will create an argument to support tax cuts as a solution to any economic problem...even when a tax cut will worsen the very deficit they say is in dire need of being reigned in.

Let make this simple
I keep more wealth, I create wealth

As the Wall Street Journal’s Stephen Moore illuminates in his 2008 book “The End of Prosperity” (Threshold Editions), Mr. Bush’s 2001 tax cuts failed to revive an economy still staggering from the bursting of the dot-com bubble. Mr. Bush’s strategy had been to adopt a demand-side, Keynesian stimulus, hoping that putting a few extra dollars in Americans’ pockets would jump-start the economy through increased consumption. This approach faltered, not just because Americans opted to save their rebates, but because it neglected the importance of business investment to overall growth. Predictably, the economy lagged and government revenues stagnated. What the United States needed then (and needs now) was to stimulate investment, not consumption.
By 2003, Mr. Bush grasped this lesson. In that year, he cut the dividend and capital gains rates to 15 percent each, and the economy responded. In two years, stocks rose 20 percent. In three years, $15 trillion of new wealth was created. The U.S. economy added 8 million new jobs from mid-2003 to early 2007, and the median household increased its wealth by $20,000 in real terms.
But the real jolt for tax-cutting opponents was that the 03 Bush tax cuts also generated a massive increase in federal tax receipts. From 2004 to 2007, federal tax revenues increased by $785 billion, the largest four-year increase in American history. According to the Treasury Department, individual and corporate income tax receipts were up 40 percent in the three years following the Bush tax cuts. And (bonus) the rich paid an even higher percentage of the total tax burden than they had at any time in at least the previous 40 years. This was news to theNew York Times, whose astonished editorial board could only describe the gains as a “surprise windfall.”


Read more: DWYER: Bush tax cuts boosted federal revenue - Washington Times DWYER: Bush tax cuts boosted federal revenue - Washington Times
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

in the first part of your post....you forgot to add..."for yourself" to that...
 
I keep more wealth, I create wealth

Hoarding wealth is not creating wealth.

Physical labor creates wealth, not financial manipulation.

hoarding wealth?
As the Wall Street Journal’s Stephen Moore illuminates in his 2008 book “The End of Prosperity” (Threshold Editions), Mr. Bush’s 2001 tax cuts failed to revive an economy still staggering from the bursting of the dot-com bubble. Mr. Bush’s strategy had been to adopt a demand-side, Keynesian stimulus, hoping that putting a few extra dollars in Americans’ pockets would jump-start the economy through increased consumption. This approach faltered, not just because Americans opted to save their rebates, but because it neglected the importance of business investment to overall growth. Predictably, the economy lagged and government revenues stagnated. What the United States needed then (and needs now) was to stimulate investment, not consumption.
By 2003, Mr. Bush grasped this lesson. In that year, he cut the dividend and capital gains rates to 15 percent each, and the economy responded. In two years, stocks rose 20 percent. In three years, $15 trillion of new wealth was created. The U.S. economy added 8 million new jobs from mid-2003 to early 2007, and the median household increased its wealth by $20,000 in real terms.
But the real jolt for tax-cutting opponents was that the 03 Bush tax cuts also generated a massive increase in federal tax receipts. From 2004 to 2007, federal tax revenues increased by $785 billion, the largest four-year increase in American history. According to the Treasury Department, individual and corporate income tax receipts were up 40 percent in the three years following the Bush tax cuts. And (bonus) the rich paid an even higher percentage of the total tax burden than they had at any time in at least the previous 40 years. This was news to theNew York Times, whose astonished editorial board could only describe the gains as a “surprise windfall.”


Read more: DWYER: Bush tax cuts boosted federal revenue - Washington Times DWYER: Bush tax cuts boosted federal revenue - Washington Times
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

this proves my point
 
I keep more wealth, I create wealth

Hoarding wealth is not creating wealth.

Physical labor creates wealth, not financial manipulation.
Creating and accumulating wealth ≠ hoarding wealth.

Premise: FAIL.

So If I bring home 4000 less, or 80.00 a week
it is a failure?
I agree
The federal govt has failed me and the millions who get up an make it happen every day
 

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