US Calls Turkish Actions 'Genocide'; Turks Outraged

[JakeStarkey]

So what, ekrem? None of that rebuts realpolitik: Turkey is but a pimple on the major powers' collective butt. Get in the way, get popped.

 

[ekrem]

(...)

Uh no, this is the solution for Iran:

Nuclear summit in Washington 'most unarguable' - Medvedev | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire

The US has now created an 'axis of power' (bilateral relationship that enables 2 countries to closely work together on global issues) with moscow and this new good relationship will allow the US to pressure Iran into submission, as the only opposing major power is China and that country can not afford to be isolated (as it is the only opposing major country). Simply put, China will loose more than it has to gain by opposing all the other major powers in the world. You may have noticed how careful the Chinese chose their words when talking about pressuring Iran.

Turkey hasn't even been mentioned in these talks, it is not been a significant influence in any way (compared to China & Russia).

Key players against Iran: Russia, China & Some major European nations (UK & France both have nukes)

Brazil and Turkey are currently as non-permanent member in UN security council.
Both countries have announced, that they do not support any sanctions on Iran.
Russia may - if the USA gives something in return - support mini-sanctions.
China in best-case scenario would only OK mini-mini-sanctions - if at all.
The Russian position is a position of eventually joining sanctions, but for Russia these sanctions lie far in future. Nothing imminent.

You say, Turkey does not matter on Iran sanctions.
We are a neighbour to Iran. Leaving aside every other factor, only the geographic factor alone is enough to weaken any sanctions, that are based on "hearing and saying" of an Iranian nuclear bomb.

 

[Munin]

You say, Turkey does not matter on Iran sanctions.
We are a neighbour to Iran. Leaving aside every other factor, only the geographic factor alone is enough to weaken any sanctions, that are based on "hearing and saying" of an Iranian nuclear bomb.

I said that Turkey does not matter compared to Russia and China. Turkey is not a superpower: the US is, so anything that Turkey will do against the US will most probably hurt Turkey more than the US.

 

[ekrem]

I said that Turkey does not matter compared to Russia and China. Turkey is not a superpower: the US is, so anything that Turkey will do against the US will most probably hurt Turkey more than the US.

Probably as hurt like after 2003.
Where Turkey now stands regarding KRG and Iraq was described with sources above.

It is not in our interest to punish collectively 72 million Iranians.
1/3 of Iran is Azeri Turkic population.
Teheran is after Istanbul second biggest city in world, where Turkish is spoken.
Link: The Washington Note

Collective punishment of 72 million people is a no-go based on "hearing and saying"-rumours of a military nuclear programme by Iran.
If you want to sanction nuclear activities, do it with India, Israel and Pakistan first.
Those are not rumours.

And once that resolution thing passes, we will downgrade relations with you on every field.
That Anti-Terrorism thingy during ww1 against Orthodox Armenian Jihadists.
Link: The Guardian

 

[JakeStarkey]

No one in America cares if Turkey downgrades relations because Americans know the Turks dare not do anything so destructive to its country's future.

 

[ekrem]

No one in America cares if Turkey downgrades relations because Americans know the Turks dare not do anything so destructive to its country's future.

Why don't you argument in which way this would be destructive.
I am curious about the train of thoughts that produce such a statement.
These are strong words:

destructive to its country's future

Please explain.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No one in America cares if Turkey downgrades relations because Americans know the Turks dare not do anything so destructive to its country's future.

Why don't you argument in which way this would be destructive.
I am curious about the train of thoughts that produce such a statement.
These are strong words:

destructive to its country's future

Please explain.

How is this a strong statement? Turkey is a regional player in Middle East, very secondary to Iran or even Israel, much less the U.S in determining what happens in the region. The Iraqi invasion is a classic example of Turkey's weakness in its own region.

 

[ekrem]

How is this a strong statement? Turkey is a regional player in Middle East, very secondary to Iran or even Israel, much less the U.S in determining what happens in the region. The Iraqi invasion is a classic example of Turkey's weakness in its own region.

You said, that by Turkish motivated degradation of US-Turkey relations this would resemble something like a destructive choice to Turkey's future.
I ask you, what are your cards to play in that case, that resemble such a destiny?
Simple question.

To your other sentences:
Before 2003, Turkey was a non-actor in Middle-East by choice. After 2003 we canalized our capabilities southwards, with USA trying to block Turkey till November 2007 as sort of punishment.

Now, to your declaration that Israel and Iran would determine what happens in this region.
Both countries do not have any soft-power capabilities over other countries.
Cultural, economical, socio-humanistic interaction.

Neither the most aggressive (Israel) nor the most active in financing non-state players (Iran) will elevate in to a hegemonic status. It is a combination of sheer conventional power, equipped with self-sustaining economic power and cultural attractiveness.

Turkey does not have a strategy for this region that relies solely on conventional capabilities.
We bombed Terrorist camps in KRG, but afterwards invested 10 billion $ for the local people of KRG.
Our primary strategy is integration of the region into Turkish economy without sectarian or religious preference lines.

The last episode of Noor, a Turkish TV series, was watched by 85 Million Arabs:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/27/world/middleeast/27beirut.html?_r=1
This only one of many TV series that are airing on Arab Televisions.

Would Turkey "F-16"-nize its neighbours or send missile firing tests over TV screens and finance non-state players, Turkey would have even more "media-attention" in media.
But that is not Turkey's strategy.
And not the loudest barking through media attention is ultimately the tough guy.
If we implemented a strategy that follows the principal rule of Irsael's and Iran's (militarization of foreign policy), we would already have expanded territoritally into the Islamic periphery.

We invade them this time as merchants and businessmen, spread our culture and herewith our attractiveness for "average-Joe" on the Muslim streets.
Me thinks, Turkey's strategy is the most wise and the only sustainable of all strategies.

The blockade politics by USA as sort of punishment against Turkey for 2003, fell in November 2007, when President Gul visited Bush junior.
Since then we have made remarkable impact up-till now and this trend will exponentially continue.
And for war with any neighbour in this region, we are anyway ready for.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Destiny? Turkey's "Destiny" ended with WWI. Turkey is a straw man, the weak man still of eastern Europe and the Near East. You have nothing to underwrite your claims. Not a thing.

 

[ekrem]

Destiny? Turkey's "Destiny" ended with WWI. Turkey is a straw man, the weak man still of eastern Europe and the Near East. You have nothing to underwrite your claims. Not a thing.

You try to picture the world from long ago buried pictures.
Talking of "weak man" of Eastern Europe and Middle-East.
You have no clue. Sleep on.

The funniest thing is, you claim that I would have nothing to underwrite my "claims".
First, these are no claims.
Second, since I am on this board I bombarded this forum with sources and facts that underwrite my position.

We can switch to a dry, fact-orientated debate.
But so far, with talking out of your ass, that leaves to me the conclusion that you are just provincial average-Joe, you did not qualified for such a debate

 

[ekrem]

huffingtonpost.com - Video - Turkish Soap Operas Captivate Arab World

 

[Marc39]

Destiny? Turkey's "Destiny" ended with WWI. Turkey is a straw man, the weak man still of eastern Europe and the Near East. You have nothing to underwrite your claims. Not a thing.

Very salient point. One of bin Ladin's key reasons for 9/11 as stated in his list of grievances was the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in World War I to the Allies.

The sick fuck still cannot let go of events of almost 100 years ago.

 

[ekrem]

Very salient point. One of bin Ladin's key reasons for 9/11 as stated in his list of grievances was the collapse of the Ottoman Empire in World War I to the Allies.

The sick fuck still cannot let go of events of almost 100 years ago.

Geanie is out of bottle.
You are the man.
Finally there he is: Bin Ladin.
Now come up with honour killings and we have the right cocktail for you to go and burn mosques and if there is still time phosphorize some Gaza children on home-way.
You sick fuck.

 

[JakeStarkey]

ekrem, because I know that Turkey is not a major player in the world, and only a minor one in the region. The fact that I realize this means that I am allied with the jihadists? Don't take a math, philosophy, or stats class, son, because you will fail it.

 

[Munin]

ekrem, because I know that Turkey is not a major player in the world, and only a minor one in the region. The fact that I realize this means that I am allied with the jihadists? Don't take a math, philosophy, or stats class, son, because you will fail it.

I think his patriotism clouds his judgement and that is not much different from certain US patriots. (Country first! then logical thinking)

 

[JakeStarkey]

ekrem, you are not logical, my son. You make silly assumptions and false connections. Your segues fail in approach and logic.

Let me remind you that Turkey is the collective tail of a dog wagged by both Europe and the U.S. It has no control at all of its own future in the ME.