Unsubsidized wind and solar now the cheapest source for new electric power

[RGR]

So wind and solar aren't the cheapest source. Good to know.

This should be obvious to everyone, regardless of political leanings. In a free market (even one where the government is attempting to interfere and pick winners) the fundamentals are hard to escape. Fossil fuels dominate for a reason...and it isn't just about the price, or reports from advocacy groups, or whatever the pimping angle of the day might be. For suburban folks running around to work and back, EVs and plentiful electricity from nukes is great. For farmers, liquid fuels to haul farm equipment and horses is wonderful. Both will make choices based on their particular circumstances, one size fits all solutions rarely fit all.

I wouldn't mind a decent pickup myself, but just don't need it, and once you get a taste of free fuel for commuting and doing all your running around suburbia activities, going to those jihady subsidy stations and handing over hard earned money to just...move around....seems so...distasteful.

 

[anotherlife]

Only fossil fuels carry enough energy density.

To do what? Wife drives back and forth to work fine, not needing fossil fuels in the tank at all. To heat a house? Electricity works fine, heats water as well. Fossil fuels have their advantages, and their uses, but only someone suffering from myopia would demand they only use fossil fuels when there are plenty of other (and in the case of my wife, FREE!) fuels available.

Also, all these alternative energy technologies still rely on fossil fuels to remain operational.

Sure. Fossil fuels are useful, and will continue to be for quite some time.

There is a theory between petrochemical engineering students, that whilst oil is rare, natural gas should be mostly omnipotent in every country at various depths.

Not sure if "omnipotent" is the right word when dealing with resource assessments at the country level. Rather than taking a students word for anything, I recommend the professionals.

World Petroleum Assessment - Homepage: USGS, Energy Resources Program

This is because oil is just a short intermediary stage of natural gas formation. No university grant will ever be permitted to discover this.

Discover something KNOWN? Nobody better being giving university grants for things even those students should know.

..

No because wind and solar are only tiny portions of electricity generation. Nice diagram though.

 

[Old Rocks]

Only fossil fuels carry enough energy density.

To do what? Wife drives back and forth to work fine, not needing fossil fuels in the tank at all. To heat a house? Electricity works fine, heats water as well. Fossil fuels have their advantages, and their uses, but only someone suffering from myopia would demand they only use fossil fuels when there are plenty of other (and in the case of my wife, FREE!) fuels available.

Also, all these alternative energy technologies still rely on fossil fuels to remain operational.

Sure. Fossil fuels are useful, and will continue to be for quite some time.

There is a theory between petrochemical engineering students, that whilst oil is rare, natural gas should be mostly omnipotent in every country at various depths.

Not sure if "omnipotent" is the right word when dealing with resource assessments at the country level. Rather than taking a students word for anything, I recommend the professionals.

World Petroleum Assessment - Homepage: USGS, Energy Resources Program

This is because oil is just a short intermediary stage of natural gas formation. No university grant will ever be permitted to discover this.

Discover something KNOWN? Nobody better being giving university grants for things even those students should know.

..

No because wind and solar are only tiny portions of electricity generation. Nice diagram though.

At present, but growing by double digit percentages, compounding every year.

 

[RGR]

To do what? Wife drives back and forth to work fine, not needing fossil fuels in the tank at all. To heat a house? Electricity works fine, heats water as well. Fossil fuels have their advantages, and their uses, but only someone suffering from myopia would demand they only use fossil fuels when there are plenty of other (and in the case of my wife, FREE!) fuels available.

At present, but growing by double digit percentages, compounding every year.

The same could once be said about the use of fossil fuels. Until it couldn't, infinite exponential growth not being possible in the physical world. More like an S-curve more likely, the question then being where the asymptote might be. But no one can deny it recent growth, it has gone from insignificant to....more significant. And it is a move in the right direction (diversity in power generation being a good thing,, just like diversity in an economy) so for that reason alone it should be given a fair shake, to see where it falls out in the overall energy mix.

 

[anotherlife]

Only fossil fuels carry enough energy density.

To do what? Wife drives back and forth to work fine, not needing fossil fuels in the tank at all. To heat a house? Electricity works fine, heats water as well. Fossil fuels have their advantages, and their uses, but only someone suffering from myopia would demand they only use fossil fuels when there are plenty of other (and in the case of my wife, FREE!) fuels available.

Also, all these alternative energy technologies still rely on fossil fuels to remain operational.

Sure. Fossil fuels are useful, and will continue to be for quite some time.

There is a theory between petrochemical engineering students, that whilst oil is rare, natural gas should be mostly omnipotent in every country at various depths.

Not sure if "omnipotent" is the right word when dealing with resource assessments at the country level. Rather than taking a students word for anything, I recommend the professionals.

World Petroleum Assessment - Homepage: USGS, Energy Resources Program

This is because oil is just a short intermediary stage of natural gas formation. No university grant will ever be permitted to discover this.

Discover something KNOWN? Nobody better being giving university grants for things even those students should know.

..

No because wind and solar are only tiny portions of electricity generation. Nice diagram though.

At present, but growing by double digit percentages, compounding every year.

Oh okay I understand. Yes but how do you time the government, to sell your portfolio just before they pull it in Washington and short it themselves?

 

[IsaacNewton]

Unsubsidized wind and solar now the cheapest source for new electric power

While investments in renewable energy slumped last year, a big drop in unsubsidized costs for new wind and solar power installations indicated that they remain popular energy alternatives.
Last year, the average "levelized cost" or total cost of generating power from solar worldwide dropped 17% percent, onshore wind costs dropped 18% and offshore wind turbine power costs fell 28%, according to a new report from the United Nations and Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF).
"Well, after the dramatic cost reductions of the past few years, unsubsidized wind and solar can provide the lowest cost new electrical power in an increasing number of countries, even in the developing world -- sometimes by a factor of two," Michael Liebreich, chairman of the Advisory Board at BNEF, said in the report.

Well, there's now no hands off capitalist free market way to stop solar and wind!

This is the trend and it will continue. The oil industry is like the US steel industry was, they refuse to upgrade and progress into the future and they will be left in the dust bin by those who do. It can't happen fast enough. Time for the dinosaurs to go extinct again.

 

[RGR]

The oil industry is like the US steel industry was, they refuse to upgrade and progress into the future and they will be left in the dust bin by those who do. It can't happen fast enough. Time for the dinosaurs to go extinct again.

Get enough folks to buy EVs, and it might even happen! My wife probably has been to a gas station in like a year, and still commutes all over the place willy-nilly!

Of course, we haven't needed to go on vacation with 7 people and a quarter ton of luggage, but still, lately it seems like you can't swing a dead cat without a silent EV running past wherever you are.

 

[IsaacNewton]

The oil industry is like the US steel industry was, they refuse to upgrade and progress into the future and they will be left in the dust bin by those who do. It can't happen fast enough. Time for the dinosaurs to go extinct again.

Get enough folks to buy EVs, and it might even happen! My wife probably has been to a gas station in like a year, and still commutes all over the place willy-nilly!

Of course, we haven't needed to go on vacation with 7 people and a quarter ton of luggage, but still, lately it seems like you can't swing a dead cat without a silent EV running past wherever you are.

Desktop computers started in the mid 1970s, but it wasn't until the late 1980s that they were beginning to be seen as an essential appliance in the home and not until the mid-late 1990s after the internet got up and running that the home computer started coming into it's own. Now they are ubiquitous.

All new technologies that change the game need time to get up and running. Like pulling a piece of tape up off of a table. It takes two minutes to get a fingernail under one end and then it comes right up.

 

[saveliberty]

Please tell me who the morons are investing in developing and under developed countries with solar power. Nonsubsidized is laughable.

 

[anotherlife]

Unsubsidized wind and solar now the cheapest source for new electric power

While investments in renewable energy slumped last year, a big drop in unsubsidized costs for new wind and solar power installations indicated that they remain popular energy alternatives.
Last year, the average "levelized cost" or total cost of generating power from solar worldwide dropped 17% percent, onshore wind costs dropped 18% and offshore wind turbine power costs fell 28%, according to a new report from the United Nations and Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF).
"Well, after the dramatic cost reductions of the past few years, unsubsidized wind and solar can provide the lowest cost new electrical power in an increasing number of countries, even in the developing world -- sometimes by a factor of two," Michael Liebreich, chairman of the Advisory Board at BNEF, said in the report.

Well, there's now no hands off capitalist free market way to stop solar and wind!

This is the trend and it will continue. The oil industry is like the US steel industry was, they refuse to upgrade and progress into the future and they will be left in the dust bin by those who do. It can't happen fast enough. Time for the dinosaurs to go extinct again.

Interesting, the u.s. Steel industry is only bad because 3rd world countries have chemical engineers that don't work for dollar pay so they can cook up better steel.

How do you cook up better gasoline? I think the same success model doesn't apply.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Unsubsidized wind and solar now the cheapest source for new electric power

While investments in renewable energy slumped last year, a big drop in unsubsidized costs for new wind and solar power installations indicated that they remain popular energy alternatives.
Last year, the average "levelized cost" or total cost of generating power from solar worldwide dropped 17% percent, onshore wind costs dropped 18% and offshore wind turbine power costs fell 28%, according to a new report from the United Nations and Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF).
"Well, after the dramatic cost reductions of the past few years, unsubsidized wind and solar can provide the lowest cost new electrical power in an increasing number of countries, even in the developing world -- sometimes by a factor of two," Michael Liebreich, chairman of the Advisory Board at BNEF, said in the report.

Well, there's now no hands off capitalist free market way to stop solar and wind!

This is the trend and it will continue. The oil industry is like the US steel industry was, they refuse to upgrade and progress into the future and they will be left in the dust bin by those who do. It can't happen fast enough. Time for the dinosaurs to go extinct again.

The oil industry is like the US steel industry was, they refuse to upgrade and progress into the future

Not upgrading is why US fracking has crushed the price of oil and increased US oil production by 50% over the last 5 years. DERP!

 

[Old Rocks]

Please tell me who the morons are investing in developing and under developed countries with solar power. Nonsubsidized is laughable.

DONG Energy, EnBW to Build First Unsubsidized European Offshore Wind Farms
Apr 17, 2017

DONG Energy, the 240-MW OWP West and the 240-MW Borkum Riffgrund West 2, were awarded the rights to build in the German North sea at a bid price of zero dollars per MWh, the company announced.

EnBW also won a no-subsidy bid for the 900-MW He Dreiht project during the same auction.

The New York Times noted the winning bids without subsidies are an industry first.

“Offshore wind is categorically proving its competitiveness,” Jochen Homann, president of the Bundesnetzagentur, the Geman agency that held the auction, said in a statement. “This is good news for all electricity consumers who contribute to funding renewable energy.”

DONG was awarded a third project, the 110-MW Gode Wind 3, at a subsidized bid price of $64 per MW/h during the auction.
DONG Energy, EnBW to Build First Unsubsidized European Offshore Wind Farms

There you go, just the beginning.

 

[Skull Pilot]

in the meantime we are helping fund Chinese research into next generation molten salt reactors so when we finally realize that wind and solar will never meet even our current power demands we can buy our nuclear power generation facilities from the Chinese

 

[RGR]

..... but still, lately it seems like you can't swing a dead cat without a silent EV running past wherever you are.

Desktop computers started in the mid 1970s, but it wasn't until the late 1980s that they were beginning to be seen as an essential appliance in the home and not until the mid-late 1990s after the internet got up and running that the home computer started coming into it's own. Now they are ubiquitous.

Yup. One of the interesting thing about naysayers (of nearly any stripe) is the fundamental assumption that things can't be different than can be seen TODAY. And of course...tomorrow...things change.

I tried to race a Tesla S Model out of a stoplight with the wife's car a couple weeks ago....imagine that. Two EVs, side by side at a redlight..not Corvettes or motorcycles...nope....EVs. Of course, when he realized what I was doing, the Tesla driver put his foot down and incinerated me, but still, who ever would have imagined that EVs are becoming so commonplace, and can do the same sort of things that use old farts did when we were young in Mustangs and Chevells....except now we can do it and don't even need gasoline?

It was just one of those "holy crap, this is amazing!" type moments. Even more amusingly, I did it using the free fuel the wife gets from her employer. Fuel so cheap they can give it away...to drag race with!

 

[IsaacNewton]

..... but still, lately it seems like you can't swing a dead cat without a silent EV running past wherever you are.

Desktop computers started in the mid 1970s, but it wasn't until the late 1980s that they were beginning to be seen as an essential appliance in the home and not until the mid-late 1990s after the internet got up and running that the home computer started coming into it's own. Now they are ubiquitous.

Yup. One of the interesting thing about naysayers (of nearly any stripe) is the fundamental assumption that things can't be different than can be seen TODAY. And of course...tomorrow...things change.

I tried to race a Tesla S Model out of a stoplight with the wife's car a couple weeks ago....imagine that. Two EVs, side by side at a redlight..not Corvettes or motorcycles...nope....EVs. Of course, when he realized what I was doing, the Tesla driver put his foot down and incinerated me, but still, who ever would have imagined that EVs are becoming so commonplace, and can do the same sort of things that use old farts did when we were young in Mustangs and Chevells....except now we can do it and don't even need gasoline?

It was just one of those "holy crap, this is amazing!" type moments. Even more amusingly, I did it using the free fuel the wife gets from her employer. Fuel so cheap they can give it away...to drag race with!

And the trailblazers always have to drag the conservatives in the population forward like a ball and chain. When Columbus left the shore the conservatives were yelling at them to "come back, you'll sail off he edge of the world". "The car will never replace the horse". "What would anyone need a computer in their house for?" "All the scientists in the world are wrong, there is no Global Warming".

Cool story about the two EVs. A guy at work has a Tesla and I can concur it goes from zero to sixty in an instant. No lag you just push the accelerator and it takes off like a bat out of hell. The company provides free parking spaces right up front for all EVs and free charging stations. The future is arriving ahead of schedule, all you oil guzzling dinosaurs need to find a good resting place.

 

[RGR]

It was just one of those "holy crap, this is amazing!" type moments. Even more amusingly, I did it using the free fuel the wife gets from her employer. Fuel so cheap they can give it away...to drag race with!

And the trailblazers always have to drag the conservatives in the population forward like a ball and chain. When Columbus left the shore the conservatives were yelling at them to "come back, you'll sail off he edge of the world". "The car will never replace the horse". "What would anyone need a computer in their house for?" "All the scientists in the world are wrong, there is no Global Warming".

One of those cool things about the naysayers of today. They must change their tune tomorrow.

Cool story about the two EVs. A guy at work has a Tesla and I can concur it goes from zero to sixty in an instant. No lag you just push the accelerator and it takes off like a bat out of hell. The company provides free parking spaces right up front for all EVs and free charging stations. The future is arriving ahead of schedule, all you oil guzzling dinosaurs need to find a good resting place.

The wife gets up front parking as well. When decent employers are handing out bennys like priority parking and free fuel, she isn't the only one looking around wondering how to optimize transport for these kinds of benefits.