Unpatriotic, Anti American.

[no1tovote4]

If you have the time and patience please feel free to read this.

It is my belief, feel free to attack or praise it.

What’s with “Unpatriotic” “Anti America”

This is a term thrown around by US citizens in a negative way toward citizens expressing their rights in a Democratic society.

If Australians or Italians fought against government policies they didn’t believe in, are they being Anti Australian or Anti Italian?

No, they are standing up for what they believe in as Australians and Italians.

This is what Democracy is all about.

In America people who fight for what they believe in and feel is right is some how construed as Unpatriotic.

Americans have the freedom and the right to disagree with the people elected into power, because that’s what Democracy is.

How is it “Anti American” to exercise the very right we are fighting for in Iraq?

How is it fair for the government to use the populous as pawns in a political battle?

Does anyone see that there are people dying on BOTH sides?

Democrats and Republicans are too busy with their political bullshit to seriously address the problem and work quickly to find a solution.

Too busy spinning the issues to attract some kind of insane favoritism in the polls.

Everyone is so distracted with an issue that has been fabricated and framed.

The actual problem is not being addressed, and if it is, it’s being dealt with so slowly and so lightly it makes the public feel that it really isn’t all that important an issue to our elected officials, we are somehow expected to go on with our daily lives and be patient and mind our own business when it comes to politics we arent meant to understand.

Both sides are guilty in this, I don’t care your stance, a resolution or plan of action is absolutely a necessity, and the people we elected, the people we entrusted with this job, are dicking around. Going on holidays and conventions, holding press conferences as a means of communication, instead of talking and working toward resolving this, its been months what have they accomplished?

Nothing.

Going back a few years

I don’t remember ANY outcry from the Iraqi people to be “rescued” from Saddam, I don’t remember anyone from Iraq going before the World Court requesting intervention from another country to remove Saddam.

Our elected officials, our Democratically elected officials invaded another country without probable cause, all based on the fear and assumptions generated by 9/11, which they used to manipulate and then fed us through constant political propagandist repetition.

I can say this confidently now that the facts are coming to light,

that all evidence for the invasion presented by our elected government wasn’t thoroughly investigated beyond all reasonable doubt as to its validity.

And yet here we are, arguing about whether to stay or abandon our occupation of another country.

WE started this, we all did, every American, when we went along so blindly and unquestioningly with what our Democratically Elected officials told us.

Our media is responsible for not taking varied standpoints on anything, they stepped in line to the drum beat of war amplifying fears and subsequently silencing any voices of dissent, and “WE” the bewildered herd obediently fell into step, repeating what they told us, screaming about terrorists and mushroom clouds, and buying duct tape.

And anyone who raised a question was immediately singled out and labeled “Anti American” for not following our leader in a time of war.

A climate of war that was manufactured from the top down.

Instead of calling for a peaceful investigation The reaction of our government officials was to fabricate a casefor war on pre-selected targets, of obvious strategic economical and political value.

Anyone who didn’t buy the hype and propaganda the media so readily delivered was somehow “unpatriotic” in asking for more proof, and evidence in favor of what the government was proposing.

The United States of America invaded another country! Again, under the guise of spreading Peace and Democracy.

To this day, at least 65,000 people or more from that country have died.

And all we are arguing about is whether to stay and fix the situation we have created, or to leave.

What is wrong with that?

Can anyone even fathom that kind of situation here in America? Can anyone imagine 65,000 American citizens dying at the hands of an invading force?

And the fact that Americans speak out against this is some how “Unpatriotic” and “Anti American”

Are we War Mongers?

A society that feeds off the blood and suffering of others in the search of self righteous Democracy? Playing it off like it doesn’t effect any of us? It appears that as long as it’s not on American soil that’s all that matters?

Are we so far removed from the real world that what the US has done could not possibly be considered wrong by anyone other than “Unpatriotic Anti Americans”?

We support our troops for doing what they were told. As we should.

But we never questioned what they were being told, That is everyone's fault, those voices were silenced and chastised as "Unpatriotic".

We were all swept up and hurried along in making the decision for war, because too much time and not enough fear would make ANY rational person question the reasons, motives, and consequences of something as incredibly significant as going to war.

This may come across as self righteous and you can argue with me and have your opinions freely expressed and heard, but you must ask yourself one thing;

Without the government and the media scaring everyone, would we be in this situation?

If everyone wasn’t so brainwashed into thinking that tomorrow or next week we will be attacked by a people we knew literally nothing about and have no understanding of, would we be where we are today?

Pettily Arguing whether or not to clean up a mess we created?

WE all have a guilty hand in this because we all willingly sat by and so obediently allowed the people we elected into power to do what they pleased, we freely let the fear they fed us to overcome reason.

It is ridiculous to me that those who rationally questioned motives were called “Unpatriotic and Anti American”, that is insane.

It is insane to me that the suppression of these voices is not viewed as “Unpatriotic” it stands against everything America has fought and died for in the past, which in my eyes, makes all the voices silencing the dissent “Anti American”

Republican Conservatives hide behind the hollowly constructed wall of patriotism to rally the population behind whatever cause has been so carefully selected.

I take this from the Daily Show - What if the Democrats renamed the Time tables and dates for withdrawal - “Freedom Deadlines” or “Patriot dates” even “Glory Goals” What patriotic American wouldn’t stand behind a “Glory Goal” - John Stewart.

When you argue in favor of the war, you argue in favor of fear and government policy, you argue and hide behind the infallible patriotic protection of America.

How is it unpatriotic to argue against Occupation and Invasion, arguing against death?

How is it Unpatriotic in arguing for accountability?

How is it unpatriotic to demand rational leadership?

How is it unpatriotic to demand a plan of action in regards to a situation that has spun out of control beyond anything anyone has ever imagined?

The Left and Right have polarized the issues and bogged down the public minds and American society, all but halting all progress in our democratic government.

No one should be arguing the validity of Politically framed “surrender dates”, no one should be arguing “patriotism”.

We should be standing up and demanding resolution from the people we democratically chose to make these decisions.

I would take and put this to the left as well. Consistently we hear how the right, especially now that it is more popular, are somehow anti-American for supporting the action in Iraq, or even suggesting that we should not leave until we have established stability. For promoting a different POV that has become less popular after an endless blitz of rhetoric from the other side they are now somehow told that they are not "patriotic".

Currently as the pendulum is swinging in a different direction those who previously complained about this rhetoric consistently use it. Congratulating themselves on being somehow more American than those who disagree. It is equally wrong regardless of which side may think to use the words. We are Americans, designed to disagree, designed to work regardless of disagreement, well-made and planned by those that came before.

 

[maineman]

I would take and put this to the left as well. Consistently we hear how the right, especially now that it is more popular, are somehow anti-American for supporting the action in Iraq, or even suggesting that we should not leave until we have established stability. For promoting a different POV that has become less popular after an endless blitz of rhetoric from the other side they are now somehow told that they are not "patriotic".

Currently as the pendulum is swinging in a different direction those who previously complained about this rhetoric consistently use it. Congratulating themselves on being somehow more American than those who disagree. It is equally wrong regardless of which side may think to use the words. We are Americans, designed to disagree, designed to work regardless of disagreement, well-made and planned by those that came before.

Did I somehow miss you jumping all over Dixie et. al. when they were calling liberals traitorous and unpatriotic?

 

[Ninja]

I agree completely.

Of course you do

 

[no1tovote4]

Did I somehow miss you jumping all over Dixie et. al. when they were calling liberals traitorous and unpatriotic?

Yes, you did. I believe it is because you held to your threads with him so strictly you never bothered to read what I said to him, he would constantly complain that I was "taking your side" in fact when I did it. I consistently spoke against such rhetoric. So, either produce a thread where I called anybody "anti-American" or, what was it you told me to do?.. Oh yes. Shut your pie hole.

 

[maineman]

Yes, you did. I believe it is because you held to your threads with him so strictly you never bothered to read what I said to him, he would constantly complain that I was "taking your side" in fact when I did it. I consistently spoke against such rhetoric. So, either produce a thread where I called anybody "anti-American" or, what was it you told me to do?.. Oh yes. Shut your pie hole.

I guess I fail to see the cry from the left that neocons are anti-American..... other than complaints -such as I have raised from day one - that they seem to put party and president over country.

 

[no1tovote4]

I guess I fail to see the cry from the left that neocons are anti-American..... other than complaints -such as I have raised from day one - that they seem to put party and president over country.

"over country"... Hmmm... That seems to be just another way of saying, "unAmerican"...

 

[Ninja]

I guess I fail to see the cry from the left that neocons are anti-American

Of course you do

 

[maineman]

"over country"... Hmmm... That seems to be just another way of saying, "unAmerican"...

no....not necessarily UNAmerican...just not overtly PROAmerican!

 

[maineman]

Of course you do

you got any links to quotes from me that would back up your sarcastic eye rolling, or is that really all you have?

 

[no1tovote4]

no....not necessarily UNAmerican...just not overtly PROAmerican!

Right.... "not-PRO-American" isn't necessarily UNAmerican... It just isn't "for" america... :rollseyes:

If a person truly believes that the US is in danger, regardless of how misconceived you think their belief, they would make many of the arguments that you consider "not-Pro-American"....

 

[maineman]

Right.... "not-PRO-American" isn't necessarily UNAmerican... It just isn't "for" america... :rollseyes:

If a person truly believes that the US is in danger, regardless of how misconceived you think their belief, they would make many of the arguments that you consider "not-Pro-American"....

no doubt. And, for the past four years, I have truly believed that the US in danger from the actions of the Bush administration and from the war in Iraq.... and I have been constantly bombarded with slanderous accusations that my beliefs were un-American and traitorous. I guess not only do I not see much of that headed toward the right at this point, but even if I did, I would say that they should have thought about that before they called ME a traitor.

 

[Chips Rafferty]

I would take and put this to the left as well. Consistently we hear how the right, especially now that it is more popular, are somehow anti-American for supporting the action in Iraq, or even suggesting that we should not leave until we have established stability. For promoting a different POV that has become less popular after an endless blitz of rhetoric from the other side they are now somehow told that they are not "patriotic".

Currently as the pendulum is swinging in a different direction those who previously complained about this rhetoric consistently use it. Congratulating themselves on being somehow more American than those who disagree. It is equally wrong regardless of which side may think to use the words. We are Americans, designed to disagree, designed to work regardless of disagreement, well-made and planned by those that came before.

I'll salute that. But even better, why not make uttering the word "patriot" equivalent to Holocaust denying?

Ever heard of a war where the just post-pubescent participants weren't pre-programmed that the enemy wasn't demonic Christ/Ella/YH*H deniers by Pastor Liddleboy or Father Peter Fial?

I mean, what do Northern Canadians have that should make them more up themselves than the (admittedly more backward) Southern Canadians just south of their border?

Does crossing the border, any border, somehow automatically make you superior to sub-human furriners?

*(Ya can't be too careful about saying H-s name. H- has -is own Echelon system, ya know!)

 

[no1tovote4]

no doubt. And, for the past four years, I have truly believed that the US in danger from the actions of the Bush administration and from the war in Iraq.... and I have been constantly bombarded with slanderous accusations that my beliefs were un-American and traitorous. I guess not only do I not see much of that headed toward the right at this point, but even if I did, I would say that they should have thought about that before they called ME a traitor.

And I supported people who had this opinion, although I often had a different opinion.

But, the "He did it first!" defense is one that every parent has heard from time immemorial.

 

[maineman]

and the first political party to let down their guard and offer the olive branch gets their legs chopped off!

 

[no1tovote4]

and the first political party to let down their guard and offer the olive branch gets their legs chopped off!

Which is a shame. Thankfully I am only a member of a party, not one of those getting elected. I can represent my own views rather than those of the voters who will put me in office.

 

[no1tovote4]

I'll salute that. But even better, why not make uttering the word "patriot" equivalent to Holocaust denying?

Ever heard of a war where the just post-pubescent participants weren't pre-programmed that the enemy wasn't demonic Christ/Ella/YH*H deniers by Pastor Liddleboy or Father Peter Fial?

I mean, what do Northern Canadians have that should make them more up themselves than the (admittedly more backward) Southern Canadians just south of their border?

Does crossing the border, any border, somehow automatically make you superior to sub-human furriners?

*(Ya can't be too careful about saying H-s name. H- has -is own Echelon system, ya know!)

Yah, those beer-drinking citizens of America, Jr. are not somehow less than human... eh?

 

[maineman]

Which is a shame. Thankfully I am only a member of a party, not one of those getting elected. I can represent my own views rather than those of the voters who will put me in office.

it IS a shame....but equally...it IS reality.

 

[Annie]

Did I somehow miss you jumping all over Dixie et. al. when they were calling liberals traitorous and unpatriotic?

I did. Well 'all over' might be a bit much, but certainly admonished their tone in a way I'd like to see more of coming first from liberals when someone on 'their side', (note: that doesn't mean they agree with either the meaning or what was literally said, just an 'in general' partisanship).

I may be less of a partisan than most, though more active in GOP politics than most. Tis the nature of my interests and upbringing.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

If you have the time and patience please feel free to read this.

It is my belief, feel free to attack or praise it.

What’s with “Unpatriotic” “Anti America”

This is a term thrown around by US citizens in a negative way toward citizens expressing their rights in a Democratic society.

If Australians or Italians fought against government policies they didn’t believe in, are they being Anti Australian or Anti Italian?

No, they are standing up for what they believe in as Australians and Italians.

This is what Democracy is all about.

In America people who fight for what they believe in and feel is right is some how construed as Unpatriotic.

Americans have the freedom and the right to disagree with the people elected into power, because that’s what Democracy is.

How is it “Anti American” to exercise the very right we are fighting for in Iraq?

How is it fair for the government to use the populous as pawns in a political battle?

Does anyone see that there are people dying on BOTH sides?

Democrats and Republicans are too busy with their political bullshit to seriously address the problem and work quickly to find a solution.

Too busy spinning the issues to attract some kind of insane favoritism in the polls.

Everyone is so distracted with an issue that has been fabricated and framed.

The actual problem is not being addressed, and if it is, it’s being dealt with so slowly and so lightly it makes the public feel that it really isn’t all that important an issue to our elected officials, we are somehow expected to go on with our daily lives and be patient and mind our own business when it comes to politics we arent meant to understand.

Both sides are guilty in this, I don’t care your stance, a resolution or plan of action is absolutely a necessity, and the people we elected, the people we entrusted with this job, are dicking around. Going on holidays and conventions, holding press conferences as a means of communication, instead of talking and working toward resolving this, its been months what have they accomplished?

Nothing.

Going back a few years

I don’t remember ANY outcry from the Iraqi people to be “rescued” from Saddam, I don’t remember anyone from Iraq going before the World Court requesting intervention from another country to remove Saddam.



Our elected officials, our Democratically elected officials invaded another country without probable cause, all based on the fear and assumptions generated by 9/11, which they used to manipulate and then fed us through constant political propagandist repetition.

I can say this confidently now that the facts are coming to light,

that all evidence for the invasion presented by our elected government wasn’t thoroughly investigated beyond all reasonable doubt as to its validity.

And yet here we are, arguing about whether to stay or abandon our occupation of another country.

WE started this, we all did, every American, when we went along so blindly and unquestioningly with what our Democratically Elected officials told us.

Our media is responsible for not taking varied standpoints on anything, they stepped in line to the drum beat of war amplifying fears and subsequently silencing any voices of dissent, and “WE” the bewildered herd obediently fell into step, repeating what they told us, screaming about terrorists and mushroom clouds, and buying duct tape.

And anyone who raised a question was immediately singled out and labeled “Anti American” for not following our leader in a time of war.

A climate of war that was manufactured from the top down.

Instead of calling for a peaceful investigation The reaction of our government officials was to fabricate a casefor war on pre-selected targets, of obvious strategic economical and political value.

Anyone who didn’t buy the hype and propaganda the media so readily delivered was somehow “unpatriotic” in asking for more proof, and evidence in favor of what the government was proposing.

The United States of America invaded another country! Again, under the guise of spreading Peace and Democracy.

To this day, at least 65,000 people or more from that country have died.

And all we are arguing about is whether to stay and fix the situation we have created, or to leave.

What is wrong with that?

Can anyone even fathom that kind of situation here in America? Can anyone imagine 65,000 American citizens dying at the hands of an invading force?

And the fact that Americans speak out against this is some how “Unpatriotic” and “Anti American”

Are we War Mongers?

A society that feeds off the blood and suffering of others in the search of self righteous Democracy? Playing it off like it doesn’t effect any of us? It appears that as long as it’s not on American soil that’s all that matters?

Are we so far removed from the real world that what the US has done could not possibly be considered wrong by anyone other than “Unpatriotic Anti Americans”?

We support our troops for doing what they were told. As we should.

But we never questioned what they were being told, That is everyone's fault, those voices were silenced and chastised as "Unpatriotic".

We were all swept up and hurried along in making the decision for war, because too much time and not enough fear would make ANY rational person question the reasons, motives, and consequences of something as incredibly significant as going to war.

This may come across as self righteous and you can argue with me and have your opinions freely expressed and heard, but you must ask yourself one thing;

Without the government and the media scaring everyone, would we be in this situation?

If everyone wasn’t so brainwashed into thinking that tomorrow or next week we will be attacked by a people we knew literally nothing about and have no understanding of, would we be where we are today?

Pettily Arguing whether or not to clean up a mess we created?

WE all have a guilty hand in this because we all willingly sat by and so obediently allowed the people we elected into power to do what they pleased, we freely let the fear they fed us to overcome reason.

It is ridiculous to me that those who rationally questioned motives were called “Unpatriotic and Anti American”, that is insane.

It is insane to me that the suppression of these voices is not viewed as “Unpatriotic” it stands against everything America has fought and died for in the past, which in my eyes, makes all the voices silencing the dissent “Anti American”

Republican Conservatives hide behind the hollowly constructed wall of patriotism to rally the population behind whatever cause has been so carefully selected.

I take this from the Daily Show - What if the Democrats renamed the Time tables and dates for withdrawal - “Freedom Deadlines” or “Patriot dates” even “Glory Goals” What patriotic American wouldn’t stand behind a “Glory Goal” - John Stewart.

When you argue in favor of the war, you argue in favor of fear and government policy, you argue and hide behind the infallible patriotic protection of America.

How is it unpatriotic to argue against Occupation and Invasion, arguing against death?

How is it Unpatriotic in arguing for accountability?

How is it unpatriotic to demand rational leadership?

How is it unpatriotic to demand a plan of action in regards to a situation that has spun out of control beyond anything anyone has ever imagined?

The Left and Right have polarized the issues and bogged down the public minds and American society, all but halting all progress in our democratic government.

No one should be arguing the validity of Politically framed “surrender dates”, no one should be arguing “patriotism”.

We should be standing up and demanding resolution from the people we democratically chose to make these decisions.

I agree with you..