Unjust Hanging of Van Tuong Nguyen

Ok, so you think posting contrived "supposed" concepts by me

"Contrived, Luvergirl interpretation: Hagbard Celine is calling for the hostile takeover of Indonesia and is questioning the legitimacy of Indonesian sovereignty."

that have no basis in fact, and that you cannot make any, ANY, in context or out of context DIRECT quotes of where I said that, IS MORE FACTUAL , than my DIRECT QUOTES of your own words.

By the way, to make a blanket statement to a specific question

Q:
"Do you think it is wrong to execute T. McVeigh"

A:
"I think all executions are wrong"

means you are responsable for having that blanket statement applied to anything and everything. It cannot be taken out of context. You simply cant hold up under the weight of the "fat" existing in your posistions.

Hagbard Celine said:
No, I don't. I said their law is barbaric and unjust. That has nothing to do with their sovereignty. You're wrong and you're beating a dead horse.

You said... If the reason for being in Iraq has miraculously changed from "finding WMDs" to "liberating Iraqis from the tyranny of Saddam," why don't we invade every "sovereign" nation that mistreats it's citizens? You're obviously confused. You're arguing for the Iraq war, which totally undermines the sovereignty of Saddam's government, but you are against saving a guy from being murdered for simply having drugs in his bag because it would "undermine Indonesia's sovereignty?":rolleyes: You've got two conflicting arguments going here...you might want to regroup.

All taken out of context with contrived arguments tagged on willy nilly.:rolleyes:

Original, intended context: Response to Gem's post in which she farcically listed reasons for not trying to help save this man from an unjust execution such as, She's trying to make me and the others arguing to save this man from savages who want his blood look foolish by trying to make it seem like the act of appealing to Singapore to spare this man's life is comparable to spreading capitalist consumerism where it is not wanted. Does anyone here disagree that human rights are more important than petty politics?

Contrived, Luvergirl interpretation: Hagbard Celine is calling for the hostile takeover of Indonesia and is questioning the legitimacy of Indonesian sovereignty.

Original, intended context: "Any law that is cruel and unjust should be banned." Does anyone here disagree? Here in the US and in the rest of the civilized world, unjust laws are repealed or rewritten. What makes Indonesians exempt from going through the same process? The fact that some of them still wear loin cloths and live in trees? If anything, I think this is a reason to expedite the process!

Contrived Luvergirl interpretation: Hagbard hates Indonesians and wants to see their government topple in a glorious coup executed by US military police.

Original, intended context: Who disagrees that throwing rocks at women and killing them for committing adultery or for talking back to their husbands or for being seen in public unaccompanied by a man is barbaric? Who disagrees that strapping a bomb to yourself and killing innocent people so that you will be rewarded with virgins in heaven is barbaric? Any takers? You can't keep a straight face and tell me that these people aren't savages.

Contrived Luvergirl interpretation: HC is crazy because he thinks Islamic Shariah laws that undermine the rights of women and devalue human life should be rethunk. Furthermore, this is direct evidence that HC is calling for the fall of Indonesia and is calling for their sovereignty to be ruled illegitimate.

Original, intended context: They shouldn't kill people for trivial offenses. Who disagrees? If you do, go live with them and send us updates on how great it is in Indonesia.

Contrived Luvergirl interpretation: Hagbard Celine is crazy because he doesn't think executing people for trivial offenses and using corporal punishment for minor legal violations is rational behavior. What a crazy liberal.
 
GotZoom said:
Bravo! A few of our members love to take a subject of a thread and start throwing in their little thoughts about Bush, Iraq, etc....
I really hope you're not talking about me. Luvergirl brought up Iraq. And I gather by the condescending use of the word "little" that you have no respect for anyone's opinion other than your own.
 
Me said:
"Contrived, Luvergirl interpretation: Hagbard Celine is calling for the hostile takeover of Indonesia and is questioning the legitimacy of Indonesian sovereignty."
Luvergirl said:
Ok, so you think posting contrived "supposed" concepts by me that have no basis in fact, and that you cannot make any, ANY, in context or out of context DIRECT quotes of where I said that, IS MORE FACTUAL , than my DIRECT QUOTES of your own words.
"Dat have no basis in fact" eh? I guess you didn't make any baseless claims about me saying the sovereignty of Indonesia is illegitimate...
Luvergirl said:
You really are brain dead arent you? Try to follow

You claim the SOVEREIGNTY of Singapore is insignificant.
Luvergirl said:
According to you then, SOVEREIGNTY doesnt matter if ONE person is unjustly being executed
Nope, no baseless claims there.:rolleyes:

Luvergirl said:
By the way, to make a blanket statement to a specific question

Q:
"Do you think it is wrong to execute T. McVeigh"

A:
"I think all executions are wrong"

means you are responsable for having that blanket statement applied to anything and everything. It cannot be taken out of context. You simply cant hold up under the weight of the "fat" existing in your posistions.
I can't find where I said "I think all executions are wrong." You didn't cite that quote in your above post anyway. You cited three common sense generalities I made about taking the value of human life into consideration when making and banning laws and you took them out of context and interpreted them to mean that I was questioning the sovereignty of Indonesia. ???:wtf:

You still haven't made a case for why this guy's life is worth throwing away other than the fact that Indonesian laws say it is. If Indonesian laws deemed child prostitution legal, would it be right? Would it be moral? If the omnipotent lawmakers of Indonesia, whose authority you so deeply respect, were to make it legal to kill a woman for not submitting to her husband, would you just shrug your shoulders and say "Oh well, I guess if you're an independent woman, you shouldn't go to Indonesia?" Or justify it by coming up with some flimsy argument about it being justified because "life is a little different on an island?"

I don't get why you're so adamantly defending the Indonesians here. They're killing a guy who they caught with drugs. He never even had a chance to distribute them in Indonesia. They're taking the guy's life away just for having them! It's insane savagery!
 
Hagbard Celine said:
I really hope you're not talking about me. Luvergirl brought up Iraq. And I gather by the condescending use of the word "little" that you have no respect for anyone's opinion other than your own.

Ohhh...ok.....

I didn't say who I was talking about.

Interesting that you thought it was you.
 
Hagbard Celine said:
I don't get why you're so adamantly defending the Indonesians here. They're killing a guy who they caught with drugs. He never even had a chance to distribute them in Indonesia. They're taking the guy's life away just for having them! It's insane savagery!

This is his defense?

"But your honor, I can't be found guilty of distribution. I never had a chance to sell any to anybody."

And let's remember; He isn't being executed for distribution. He is being executed for smuggling.
 
GotZoom said:
This is his defense?

"But your honor, I can't be found guilty of distribution. I never had a chance to sell any to anybody."

And let's remember; He isn't being executed for distribution. He is being executed for smuggling.
Same diff. It's still a non-violent crime that doesn't deserve a death sentence.
 
Hagbard Celine said:
They're the same in that they're both non-violent crimes genius.

So airplanes and birds are the same because they both fly.

Keep spinning brother...keep spinning....
 
GotZoom said:
So airplanes and birds are the same because they both fly.

Keep spinning brother...keep spinning....
Yes, they ARE the same in that they both FLY. In other aspects, they are different, but in one aspect, i.e. flight, they are the same. Is the concept really that difficult to comprehend? Do you have Downs Syndrome?
 
Hagbard Celine said:
Yes, they ARE the same in that they both FLY. In other aspects, they are different, but in one aspect, i.e. flight, they are the same. Is the concept really that difficult to comprehend? Do you have Downs Syndrome?

Remember that 80's song by Dead or Alive?
 
Said1 said:

Main emphasis to our friend was the word "Spin"

Artist: Dead or Alive Lyrics
Song: You Spin Me Around (Like a Record) Lyrics

Yeah I, I got to know your name
Well and I, could trace your private number baby
All I know is that to me
You look like you're lots of fun
Open up your lovin' arms
I want some

Well I...I set my sights on you
(and no one else will do)
And I, I've got to have my way now, baby
(and no one else will do)
And I, I've got to have my way now, baby
All I know is that to me
You look like you're havin' fun
Open up your lovin' arms
Watch out, here I come

*You spin me right round, baby
right round like a record, baby
Right round round round
You spin me right round, baby
Right round like a record, baby
Right round round round

I, I got be your friend now, baby
And I would like to move in
Just a little bit closer
(little bit closer)

**All I know is that to me
You look like you're lots of fun
Open up your lovin' arms
Watch out, here I come

[*Repeat]

I want your love
I want your love
[**Repeat
 
GotZoom said:
Main emphasis to our friend was the word "Spin"

Artist: Dead or Alive Lyrics
Song: You Spin Me Around (Like a Record) Lyrics

Yeah I, I got to know your name
Well and I, could trace your private number baby
All I know is that to me
You look like you're lots of fun
Open up your lovin' arms
I want some

Well I...I set my sights on you
(and no one else will do)
And I, I've got to have my way now, baby
(and no one else will do)
And I, I've got to have my way now, baby
All I know is that to me
You look like you're havin' fun
Open up your lovin' arms
Watch out, here I come

*You spin me right round, baby
right round like a record, baby
Right round round round
You spin me right round, baby
Right round like a record, baby
Right round round round

I, I got be your friend now, baby
And I would like to move in
Just a little bit closer
(little bit closer)

**All I know is that to me
You look like you're lots of fun
Open up your lovin' arms
Watch out, here I come

[*Repeat]

I want your love
I want your love
[**Repeat


Oh, that. Never cared for 80's top 40 hits much. Most of it sucked.
 
Hagbard Celine said:
I really hope you're not talking about me. Luvergirl brought up Iraq. And I gather by the condescending use of the word "little" that you have no respect for anyone's opinion other than your own.

I believe the complaint was about bringing WMD's into it.

I mentioned Iraq ONLY in the context that the anti war libs (Im assuming you are one) were screaming that Iraq is sovereign (although it isnt) and that is grounds for not interferring.

I never said anything about WMD's and even questioned why you brought it up, and then even accused me of bringing it up, and of course you havent responded to that, nor the facts of SINGAPORE and how important it is to keep it squeaky clean on drugs, and how easily it could cave under if drugs were to become a problem to it.

You see, Singapore, unlike other countries, is extremely< EXTREMELY tiny. The need to keep drugs out is both possible, due to its size, and NECESSARY for its survival, due to its size. So, idiots like the Australian, who think they have the right to bring drugs into a country that could lead to problems amounting to the total collapse of the country, are arrogant at best.

So, death to the guy, too bad, stay out of Singapore if you want to carry drugs. Good message, it works for them. In fact, Singapore is soooo small, the guy must have gone out of his way to go there, with drugs, IDIOT! (now I see why you are arguing on his behalf! :) )
 
Hagbard Celine said:
"Dat have no basis in fact" eh? I guess you didn't make any baseless claims about me saying the sovereignty of Indonesia is illegitimate...
Nope, no baseless claims there.:rolleyes:!

Yet you fail to respond to the other baseless claims. Please show where I said you want us to invade Singapore. Please show where I said you want us to invade Singapore.

Hagbard Celine said:
"I can't find where I said "I think all executions are wrong." !
Because I never claimed you said that.

Hagbard Celine said:
"You cited three common sense generalities I made about taking the value of human life into consideration when making and banning laws and you took them out of context and interpreted them to mean that I was questioning the sovereignty of Indonesia. ???:wtf: !

Thats not what you said. I quoted what you stated, now you want to change it to "common sense generalities". I understand you not wanting to take responsability for your own words.

Hagbard Celine said:
"You still haven't made a case for why this guy's life is worth throwing away other than the fact that Indonesian laws say it is.!
Bullshit, I made many points on why Singapore is affected by drug traffic much more than any other country, YOU HAVE FAILED to respond to those points.
 
I'm just finding it abusrd that HC continues to claim dealing drugs is a nonviolent crime. Until someone doesn't pay up. Or commits a crime to pay the drug dealer.

Ever seen anyone OD? Not quite a passive experience.

Drug dealers deal nothing but dependence, misery and death. I see the death penalty as definitely punishment befitting the crime.
 
GunnyL said:
I'm just finding it abusrd that HC continues to claim dealing drugs is a nonviolent crime. Until someone doesn't pay up. Or commits a crime to pay the drug dealer.

Ever seen anyone OD? Not quite a passive experience.

Drug dealers deal nothing but dependence, misery and death. I see the death penalty as definitely punishment befitting the crime.

Yea, not to mention the gangs that swirl around drug turf...
drive by shootings....
 

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