Universities and colleges, how would the right make them less "liberal"?

[Truthmatters]

For science to spend effort to explore ANYTHING there has to be something to learn on hte subject.


The right is the side that denies sceince in the global warming issue.


There is nothing to explore scientifically in the Intelligent design issue.

Its the right who constantly tries to rewrite history.


Why do you think people go into the scientific field?

There are plenty of religious colleges for these students to go study religion.

Science doesnt need to study myths

 

[Anachronism]

well, the potential there is the up & comming generation, the majority of whom are faced with unemployment, and burdended with student loans

so i would foward either rethinking that notion, or providing for substaintial firepower....

Which is why if I were a high school aged kid or the parent of one, I'd be pushing for Trade School, not college as the best option. Plumbers, electricians, etc.... are always in demand regadless of the economy whereas many of those with a degree will find themselves with nowhere to go and nothing to do.

out of curiousity, just what expenditure , or expenditure(s) would you consider frivelous , decadent, unnessecary in today's SOL?

Multiple motor vehicles (especially multiple NEW cars or where the number of vehicles exceeds the number of drivers). Any motor vehicle for a child under age 18. Extravagent living arrangements, $140 sneakers for kids, 68" flat screen plasma television sets, XBox360, $200 a month cable bills, $150 a month cell phone bills, etc.....

 

[California Girl]

I would enforce the Constitutional right to free speech on equal terms.

Not this constant crap of putting liberal kids at the entrances and conservative ones in the "Free speech zones."

I would also sue any college that didn't allow all students the same chance to voice thier views.

As it is now, only liberal ideals get heard constantly, conservative ones are moved out or shut down.

fyi; That's tyranny

Sort of like a Fairness Doctrine for higher education, eh?

The absolute best thing to teach kids is how to think for themselves. Teaching the skill of critical thought and providing them with the tools to evaluate and form their own opinions is how you educate a child.

Instead our schools teach them what to think.

 

[Toro]

I would enforce the Constitutional right to free speech on equal terms.

Not this constant crap of putting liberal kids at the entrances and conservative ones in the "Free speech zones."

I would also sue any college that didn't allow all students the same chance to voice thier views.

As it is now, only liberal ideals get heard constantly, conservative ones are moved out or shut down.

fyi; That's tyranny

Sort of like a Fairness Doctrine for higher education, eh?

The absolute best thing to teach kids is how to think for themselves. Teaching the skill of critical thought and providing them with the tools to evaluate and form their own opinions is how you educate a child.

Instead our schools teach them what to think.

We actively fought political correctness when I was on campus, particularly this thought police nonsense. But I think the way you do that is to appeal to the raison d'etre of a university, which is to promote thought and ideas, both critical for higher learning. You don't do it by forcing thought police on the faculty. Thought policing is what political correctness is all about.

 

[editec]

Despite the fact that the title of this thread

Universities and colleges, how would the right make them less "liberal"?

was really nothing more than and POV editorial disguised as a question, this thread is one of the more entertaining and thought provoking threads of the week.

The question of what to do about education is, of course, a social science issue.

So in order to address questions of what and how ought we to teach our children, we first need to ask ourselves

1. What will society probably need our children to know?

2. What do we want our society to look like?

So naturally, depending on what we think this society ought to be, our answers are going to be very different.

Anachronism's rather diciplined and heartless POV seems to me to be reducing humanity to something approaching an ant colony. It is, I think denial of what it really means to be human.

But his suggestion, that when he becomes redundant, he will kill himself, is at least consistent with his POV about society.

Ants will kill themselves for the greater good in a way most people won't.

The GREATER PROBLEM, as I see it, is that the social contract we currently live under, a contract which manifests in our economic systems, our forms of governance, our educational systems, legals systems etc, are not in line with the meteoric changes that result from our techological advances.

This disconnect between social sciences and hard sciences has been the case since the industrial revolution.

And while we have managed to accomodate ourselves to the pace of tecnological change over the last 150 years, the pace of change now is SO RAPID that it is truly leaving most of us (and certainly most of our children) berift of a meaningful PLACE in society. (this in part explains why we are so materialistic and yet so unhappy, BTW -- something the hippies were TRYING to tell us in the 1960s)

In 40 years most of us will NOT be economically viable. That's a FACT, jack.

Now our masters can either create a smooth glidepath for this change or they can create one crises after the other (using both the invisible hand of market and war) to deal with the population redundancy problem.

If they use the value systems of the last 500 years to deal with our growing problems, then of course, we can expect that we will be in a constant state of WAR and economic crises.

The bottom line is that this WORLD does not have the resources for 7-10 billion people living the lives that most of the American middle class of my generation EXPECTED and that much of the developng world would like to emmulate.

And technology is NOT going to solve that problem.

Our technologically advancing society coupled with our 15th century economic systeemn, is, if anything CREATING or at least EXACERBATING this manifesting problem.

AGAIN I suggest to those of you who have bothered to read these musings of mine to read a book written in the 1930s about precisely this problem.

At War with the NEWTS
by Karel Čapek
(the man who coined the term ROBOT, folks)​

The dog eat dog capitalistic economic system we have now (which worked so well in the advancement of humankind in last 500 years) is not going to work well for the masses in the techological/robotic society we are creating.

My complaint here is NOT about capitalism, it's about PLANNING for a future where our social contract no longer makes ANY sense.

And we are on the CUSP of that problem RIGHT NOW.

This economic crises we have RIGHT NOW is a small but telling manifestation of the problem that I'm talking about.

 

[Samson]

My complaint here is NOT about capitalism, it's about PLANNING for a future where our social contract no longer makes ANY sense.

My complaint is that I had to wade through 250 word bullshit essay to get to your point, and that your point is......pointless.

Its amazing to me how much blithering goes on among social "scientists" about "planning for a future" about which they never actually contribute one fucking good idea.

 

[rdean]

So don't you think that at least the ruling class would need that liberal arts education? After all, the science of society is no less valid and uselful than the sciences of industrialism. One needs to control the great unwashed masses in your ideal state, no? Engineers and specialist of hard sciences aren't equipped to do that. Errr...not very well at least.

I've never said that liberal arts shouldn't be taught, just that it should not be the basis for most degree programs. Then again I see Government as an extension of the Business environment, not sociology or psychology.



On the advisory level, yes. On the actual leadership level, HELL NO. With the exception of history (which I don't really consider a liberal art anyway).



Again, I've never said that art or the liberal arts shouldn't exist. If someone feels they can make a living at it, go right ahead. Just don't expect the government to pay you unemployment or to sponsor your work in any way to keep you from starving to death or being killed by exposure when you can't pay your rent.

Are we ANTS meant only to produce (reporduce) and die?

To a certain degree, YES.

Let's see if I can explain this better....

Let's look at my college degree (Associate of Science in Computer Aided Drafting). It's a two year program focused almost exclusively on the skills necessary to succeed in that business. It included one business elective and one humanities elective in addition to the four English classes, three Math classes, and Physics class we were required to take.

My first class Freshman year was a hardboard drafting class. 8am M-Th, every week for 11 weeks. If the school operated in the standard model, I wouldn't have seen a class related to my major until at least the second half of my Sophomore year. Instead I would have wasted a year and a half on classes that largely held no relevance to my chosen career path. Therefore it would have ended up being a 4 year program, costing at the very least twice what it did, and getting me no more prepared for my career.

So basically you're not really advocating any real change EXCEPT that you think more students OUGHT TO get degrees in industrial and hard science diciplines.

To the extent that liberal arts education cannot possibly lead most people to meaningful jobs where they get to apply that specialized knowledge in the workplace, I understand that POV.

Colleges respond to changes in what the students WANT to study.

In my last year as an underclassman at BU, one out of every four college freshman indicated they were going PREMED.

BU's response was going to be (this according to a speech by the, then President John Silber, incidently) was going to be to WASH OUT by academic dicipline MOST of those students.

Now in the FEUDAL world you tell me that you'd like to see us return to, there'll be damned little need for many educated people (or ANY non-educated people).

And in a modern feudal world (given the rapid changes in technology that we're experiencing) there'd be damned little need for MOST PEOPLE.

We are ALREADY seeing the elimination of jobs that MOST people can do.

And that trend of making the average worker reducdant is only going to become more rapid.

Your skill sets (Computer Aided Drafting) are going to become worthless fairly soon, Anach.

I remember CLEARLY back in the 1960s when mechanical drawing was a highly worthwhile career to pursue.

Computer aided design eliminated MOST of those jobs.

Your career as a skilled CAD tech probably won't last much longer, either.

Sure SOME people will be doing CAD work, but so much more efficiently that many of those techs currently in demand are going to become redundant.

I hope you've got an exit strategy to prepare for that inevitable progress that is going to make many in your current profession redundant.

A highly technologically advancing society eliminates careers paths much much MUCH faster than most people can adapt to the change.

That is very much PART of the reason that so many people are already no longer economically viable citizens.

Unfortunately, that's somewhat true.

Like I said, I started with Cad 2.5 on Dr. Dos. Now I use "Inventor Professional". With Cad, you drew three views and sometimes an isometric view. With Inventor, you model the entire machine. You still need drawings, but we work to find vendors that can take our models and work directly from them. It makes the engineers more responsible by cutting out a human "middle man". We tend to "outer" dimension the views in the drawings for machined parts just to make sure you have the right scale. We fully dimension the sheet metal drawings. But even a lot of that is now automated.

Not only that, we use the models for "photo realistic renderings". We used to spend thousands to "take pictures" of the equipment for magazines and ads. Not anymore. Now it's another responsibility of engineering. Many times, the rendering are so realistic, sales men ask where the machine is? Before one is even built.

But look how the jobs have shifted. Now you need many more people to write the programs that do all those things. The manufacturing companies have to be up on technology. Bosses have to know the capabilities to plan. Everyone needs to "know more". And that means, "more education". Not "slash education" just when we need it the most.

 

[whitehall]

A couple of things right off the bat, don't hire unrepentent former domestic terrorists other than as janitors, allow Military recruiters on campus and dismiss students who assault speakers, members of the Military and any other person who might not agree with them. That's good for a start.

 

[rdean]

A couple of things right off the bat, don't hire unrepentent former domestic terrorists other than as janitors, allow Military recruiters on campus and dismiss students who assault speakers, members of the Military and any other person who might not agree with them. That's good for a start.

Are you in the 60's?

 

[whitehall]

A couple of things right off the bat, don't hire unrepentent former domestic terrorists other than as janitors, allow Military recruiters on campus and dismiss students who assault speakers, members of the Military and any other person who might not agree with them. That's good for a start.

Are you in the 60's?

Say what? Am I in the 60's? What does that mean? Just about every conservative speaker has been the victim of assault on a college campus. Bill Ayers is an unrepentent former domestic terrorist guilty of felony murder and he is a college professor. Ayers' wife teaches law even though she has a criminal record. Firing Ayers and his wife and arresting college students for assault on conservative speakers would be a start to creating a normal learning environment for now.

 

[Jessica Blume]

Education is a sham when controlled by government. We learn less, and cost goes up. It's a parrot system. Repeat everything you learned back, get a gold star. Get enough gold stars, and we're told it leads to more money.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE]YouTube - ‪College Conspiracy‬‏[/ame]

 

[sparky]

well, the potential there is the up & comming generation, the majority of whom are faced with unemployment, and burdended with student loans

so i would foward either rethinking that notion, or providing for substaintial firepower....

Which is why if I were a high school aged kid or the parent of one, I'd be pushing for Trade School, not college as the best option. Plumbers, electricians, etc.... are always in demand regadless of the economy whereas many of those with a degree will find themselves with nowhere to go and nothing to do.

Speaking as a tradesman for over 1/4 century, an honest assesment to the service industry would be that it's efficacy's predicated on a vibrant multilevel economy. Yes, there's always something for us to fix, and always will be, but having worked those pockets of stark two tiered disparity accents the servitude in service industry to depricating extents

out of curiousity, just what expenditure , or expenditure(s) would you consider frivelous , decadent, unnessecary in today's SOL?

Multiple motor vehicles (especially multiple NEW cars or where the number of vehicles exceeds the number of drivers). Any motor vehicle for a child under age 18. Extravagent living arrangements, $140 sneakers for kids, 68" flat screen plasma television sets, XBox360, $200 a month cable bills, $150 a month cell phone bills, etc.....

I guess i'd meet you 1/2 way on some of those points Anach, being that i subscribe to a less is more lifestyle myself. A man's gotta know his limitations , i'm told....

 

[sparky]

My complaint here is NOT about capitalism, it's about PLANNING for a future where our social contract no longer makes ANY sense.

My complaint is that I had to wade through 250 word bullshit essay to get to your point, and that your point is......pointless.

Its amazing to me how much blithering goes on among social "scientists" about "planning for a future" about which they never actually contribute one fucking good idea.

had your bowl of nasty flakes already , eh?

 

[Anachronism]

Speaking as a tradesman for over 1/4 century, an honest assesment to the service industry would be that it's efficacy's predicated on a vibrant multilevel economy. Yes, there's always something for us to fix, and always will be, but having worked those pockets of stark two tiered disparity accents the servitude in service industry to depricating extents

I'm sure that maintenance work is lousy, but it's work. That's more than a lot of college grads have to hold onto right now.

I guess i'd meet you 1/2 way on some of those points Anach, being that i subscribe to a less is more lifestyle myself. A man's gotta know his limitations , i'm told....

I'm the sort of guy who likes my toys when I can afford them, but who also understands that the bills have to be paid first. I almost learned that lesson the really hard way about seven years ago and thankfully I was able to drag myself out of the hole I'd dug. I see some of these people and it's obscene.... if they don't get 5-10 hours of OT a week EVERY WEEK they can't afford their lifestyle. Scary.

 

[editec]

Happy Thought


by Robert Louis Stevenson

The world is so full of a number of things,
I'm sure we should all be as happy as kings.

Happy Thought | poetry.literaturelearning.org

 

[clanthar]

I stand with our founding fathers -- a liberal education is an essential component of democracy.

 

[cpduprovider]

Give students lobotomies.

 

[Polk]

If college campuses are supposed to be so liberal and free how come Military Recruiters are not allowed?

“The Berkeley campus has a long standing ROTC program, dating back to 1870 [two years after it was founded], of which we are very proud. All branches of the Armed Forces, including the Marines, are welcome to recruit on the Berkeley campus and I have defended vigorously our policy when various groups have objected to it. The Berkeley campus also offers financial aid and other preferences to veterans and the dependents of soldiers deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan… I join the chorus of voices who find [the resolutions to ban Marine recruitment from the City] ill advised, intemperate, and hurtful, particularly to the young men and women and their families who are sacrificing so much for our country.” (Letter to Congressman Campbell, dated February 8, 2008)

Sorry pal, you're Red Herring won't hunt.

I know not all campuses are like that but I know some colleges are, in UCSB they burned down the ROTC building during the Vietnam war and they were never brought back, Harvard also does not allow Military recruiters or ROTC. If these institutions claim to allow free thinking there are no reasons why ROTC and the Military should not be allowed.

Harvard does not have a ROTC station on campus, but there are Harvard students who are in ROTC and recruiters are allowed to talk to students.