Universities and colleges, how would the right make them less "liberal"?

[rdean]

Quote from USMB Member:

"Because academia is overwhelmingly left. Thats to include college students. It just goes to show ya that when people begin to take responsibility for their own lives and get out of that academic atmosphere they wise up."

This is actually a very common comment from the Right on the USMB regarding "higher education". What is it saying about "education"? How would conservatives change that perspective, if it needed to be changed at all?

Look at a few of the more popular areas. Science. How would the right change the way "science" is taught to make it more "conservative" and still have it be called "science"?

Economics and "Trickle Down". When economics is taught, it's based on statistics, data and research. If the data shows something different than what conservatives want taught, should they ignore the data? Should conservative "notions" follow the same rigorous standard"?

What about history? What would be taught "differently"?

Psychology? Should it be taught that being "gay" is a "mental illness"? What would be the "cure"?

Would there be a course on "Physical Evidence Proving God's Existence"?

Would there be "morning prayer"?

I'm simply curious. How would the right change colleges and universities to make them more "acceptable"?

 

[Anachronism]

Let me start with this, rdean.... It is largely the educational SYSTEM that has created this left-leaning collegiate atmosphere. That is where I believe the changes need to begin.

First I would force all students to declare a Major when applying for acceptance to the school. Get rid of all the "liberal arts" crap that so many students spend the first several years of their college experience wasting their time on. College should be about getting the education necessary for a CAREER. It should not be a career unto itself.

Secondly, I would remove many of the unnecessary "humanities" and "liberal arts" classes from the curriculum of most degree programs. The college I attended (Johnson & Wales University in Providence, RI - A of S in Computer Aided Drafting - Class of 1994) did exactly that and it was wonderful so far as I was concerned. By removing the unnecessary garbage and focusing the curriculum on the English, Math, and Sciences pertinent to my career field and goals it made the educational experience much more enjoyable and worthwhile. Of course there were two elective classes over that two year span included in the curriculum and I could have paid extra for other courses if I'd wanted to take them.

Institute an attendance policy. Again, this goes back to my days at J&W. We had 11 week "trimesters". Each class met at least twice a week, and you were allowed TWO absences from each class in an 11 week period. Once you had the third one you lost credit for the course. Lectures with an attached Lab gave you an additional two absences. It really forced those people who didn't want to do the work to not be there.

Force all Freshmen students to live on-campus, in a dorm for the entire year. This would force them to learn to deal with other people who they don't necessarily like in close spaces. That's a skill/talent way too few people in the working world today seem to have.

Base all application acceptance on standards. No affirmative action. No legacies. Either you can do the work or you can't. Those who get accepted and either can't or won't do the work should quickly get removed so those who can and will get their opportunity.

Outlaw all "Greek" Societies. The frat/sorority system does nothing to improve college life. In fact it's a major detriment to the college experience of anyone who is there to actually get an education.

Remove all inter-collegiate sports beyond the "club" level. No scholarships for athletics.

Overall, I'd suggest that the way to "de-Liberalize" colleges and universities is to force them to operate more like a business and less like a four year orgy and free-for-all. Make the students actually WORK rather than allowing it to be a party atmosphere.

That would at least be a good start.

 

[rdean]

Let me start with this, rdean.... It is largely the educational SYSTEM that has created this left-leaning collegiate atmosphere. That is where I believe the changes need to begin.

First I would force all students to declare a Major when applying for acceptance to the school. Get rid of all the "liberal arts" crap that so many students spend the first several years of their college experience wasting their time on. College should be about getting the education necessary for a CAREER. It should not be a career unto itself.

Secondly, I would remove many of the unnecessary "humanities" and "liberal arts" classes from the curriculum of most degree programs. The college I attended (Johnson & Wales University in Providence, RI - A of S in Computer Aided Drafting - Class of 1994) did exactly that and it was wonderful so far as I was concerned. By removing the unnecessary garbage and focusing the curriculum on the English, Math, and Sciences pertinent to my career field and goals it made the educational experience much more enjoyable and worthwhile. Of course there were two elective classes over that two year span included in the curriculum and I could have paid extra for other courses if I'd wanted to take them.

Institute an attendance policy. Again, this goes back to my days at J&W. We had 11 week "trimesters". Each class met at least twice a week, and you were allowed TWO absences from each class in an 11 week period. Once you had the third one you lost credit for the course. Lectures with an attached Lab gave you an additional two absences. It really forced those people who didn't want to do the work to not be there.

Force all Freshmen students to live on-campus, in a dorm for the entire year. This would force them to learn to deal with other people who they don't necessarily like in close spaces. That's a skill/talent way too few people in the working world today seem to have.

Base all application acceptance on standards. No affirmative action. No legacies. Either you can do the work or you can't. Those who get accepted and either can't or won't do the work should quickly get removed so those who can and will get their opportunity.

Outlaw all "Greek" Societies. The frat/sorority system does nothing to improve college life. In fact it's a major detriment to the college experience of anyone who is there to actually get an education.

Remove all inter-collegiate sports beyond the "club" level. No scholarships for athletics.

Overall, I'd suggest that the way to "de-Liberalize" colleges and universities is to force them to operate more like a business and less like a four year orgy and free-for-all. Make the students actually WORK rather than allowing it to be a party atmosphere.

That would at least be a good start.

I believe in dedication as much as the next guy, but you may be a tad "harsh". You used the word "force" 5 times. Remember, those people are paying to go to that college. College isn't like high school. You have a choice of whether or not to go.
My feeling is that college isn't just about academics, but also "team building" and "getting along". I work in an engineering department and there is a very strong feelings of being "team players". We even had T-shirts made up for the department. Some of those "Liberal Classes" teach just that.
I'm glad that a harsh environment worked so well for you, but are you really looking at the "big picture"?

Looking forward to other right wing comments. I have to admit, this one was an "eye opener".

 

[Anachronism]

I believe in dedication as much as the next guy, but you may be a tad "harsh". You used the word "force" 5 times. Remember, those people are paying to go to that college. College isn't like high school. You have a choice of whether or not to go.

I was taught growing up that the end of your Senior Year in High School was the end of your "fun time" in life. After that life was intended to become more serious, and while not necessarily totally devoid of enjoyment, that your life was supposed to come first. College, as I was taught, is your JOB for 2-4 years after high school if you choose to continue your education. If not, then the option isn't bumming around Europe, it's getting a real job and beginning to provide for yourself.

My hometown.... Middletown, CT is the home of one of the more well known pseudo-Ivy League Liberal Arts schools in the US.... Wesleyan University. We joked in my youth that for $42K a year at the end of 4 years they taught you the secret words for your career just before graduation.... "Would you like fries with that, Sir?" Wesleyan was named Playboy's top Party School at least twice in my youth. Growing up around that sort of environment I quickly learned what college SHOULD NOT BE.

My feeling is that college isn't just about academics, but also "team building" and "getting along". I work in an engineering department and there is a very strong feelings of being "team players". We even had T-shirts made up for the department. Some of those "Liberal Classes" teach just that. I'm glad that a harsh environment worked so well for you, but are you really looking at the "big picture"?

I also work in an engineering department. In fact I've worked in three different ones (structural engineering, architecture, and now electric utility) over the 16 years of my career. I see a lot of college grad Engineers with $200K educations that I wouldn't hire to dig a ditch for me because they have no idea of how the real world works. They spent 4-5 years partying and trying to get into the pants of the sorority girls while doing less work towards their degree than they should have. Then I (the CAD guy with a 2 year, $34K total degree) have to actually teach them how to do their jobs because they don't have the common sense or basic engineering skills God gave a beaver. Yet they've got a pretty little degree on the wall saying they get to make $20K a year more than I do.

Being a "team player" is something you should know how to do long before you GET to college, nevermind graduate from it. I hear this arguement that college is supposed to be about "learning who you are", "experimenting", "expanding your horizons", etc.... BULLSHIT. At $40K or more a year, that's an absolute JOKE. How many of these kids come out of college, having spent $100K+ of mom & dad's money and have no sense of where they're going, what their career will be, or any real-life skills to further their goals (if they even have any). That's an absolute waste of time and money.

I have to admit, this one was an "eye opener".

Oh, in what way was my commentary all that shocking and unexpected?

 

[editec]

Quote from USMB Member:

"Because academia is overwhelmingly left. Thats to include college students. It just goes to show ya that when people begin to take responsibility for their own lives and get out of that academic atmosphere they wise up."

This is actually a very common comment from the Right on the USMB regarding "higher education". What is it saying about "education"? How would conservatives change that perspective, if it needed to be changed at all?

Look at a few of the more popular areas. Science. How would the right change the way "science" is taught to make it more "conservative" and still have it be called "science"?

Economics and "Trickle Down". When economics is taught, it's based on statistics, data and research. If the data shows something different than what conservatives want taught, should they ignore the data? Should conservative "notions" follow the same rigorous standard"?

What about history? What would be taught "differently"?

Psychology? Should it be taught that being "gay" is a "mental illness"? What would be the "cure"?

Would there be a course on "Physical Evidence Proving God's Existence"?

Would there be "morning prayer"?

I'm simply curious. How would the right change colleges and universities to make them more "acceptable"?

They're long term players and are succeeding in making them more acceptable.

Study the history of Boston University and you'll see exactly how it's being done.

 

[editec]

Let me start with this, rdean.... It is largely the educational SYSTEM that has created this left-leaning collegiate atmosphere. That is where I believe the changes need to begin.

First I would force all students to declare a Major when applying for acceptance to the school. Get rid of all the "liberal arts" crap that so many students spend the first several years of their college experience wasting their time on (1). College should be about getting the education necessary for a CAREER. It should not be a career unto itself.

Secondly, I would remove many of the unnecessary "humanities" and "liberal arts" classes from the curriculum of most degree programs. The college I attended (Johnson & Wales University in Providence, RI - A of S in Computer Aided Drafting - Class of 1994) did exactly that and it was wonderful so far as I was concerned. By removing the unnecessary garbage and focusing the curriculum on the English, Math, and Sciences pertinent to my career field and goals it made the educational experience much more enjoyable and worthwhile. Of course there were two elective classes over that two year span included in the curriculum and I could have paid extra for other courses if I'd wanted to take them. (2)

Institute an attendance policy. Again, this goes back to my days at J&W. We had 11 week "trimesters". Each class met at least twice a week, and you were allowed TWO absences from each class in an 11 week period. Once you had the third one you lost credit for the course. Lectures with an attached Lab gave you an additional two absences. It really forced those people who didn't want to do the work to not be there.

Force all Freshmen students to live on-campus, in a dorm for the entire year. This would force them to learn to deal with other people who they don't necessarily like in close spaces. That's a skill/talent way too few people in the working world today seem to have.

Base all application acceptance on standards. No affirmative action. No legacies. Either you can do the work or you can't. Those who get accepted and either can't or won't do the work should quickly get removed so those who can and will get their opportunity.

Outlaw all "Greek" Societies. The frat/sorority system does nothing to improve college life. In fact it's a major detriment to the college experience of anyone who is there to actually get an education.

Remove all inter-collegiate sports beyond the "club" level. No scholarships for athletics.

Overall, I'd suggest that the way to "de-Liberalize" colleges and universities is to force them to operate more like a business and less like a four year orgy and free-for-all. Make the students actually WORK rather than allowing it to be a party atmosphere.

That would at least be a good start.

1. So all arts and humanities courses are a waste of time?

2. Oh, I see. You think all meaningful education is basically industrial arts education.

Well, given that you believe that FEUDALISM is the best structure of society, I suppose that makes sense.

Tell me Anachromism, what class would you be in, in your ideal society?

 

[Intense]

Quote from USMB Member:

"Because academia is overwhelmingly left. Thats to include college students. It just goes to show ya that when people begin to take responsibility for their own lives and get out of that academic atmosphere they wise up."

This is actually a very common comment from the Right on the USMB regarding "higher education". What is it saying about "education"? How would conservatives change that perspective, if it needed to be changed at all?

Look at a few of the more popular areas. Science. How would the right change the way "science" is taught to make it more "conservative" and still have it be called "science"?

Economics and "Trickle Down". When economics is taught, it's based on statistics, data and research. If the data shows something different than what conservatives want taught, should they ignore the data? Should conservative "notions" follow the same rigorous standard"?

What about history? What would be taught "differently"?

Psychology? Should it be taught that being "gay" is a "mental illness"? What would be the "cure"?

Would there be a course on "Physical Evidence Proving God's Existence"?

Would there be "morning prayer"?

I'm simply curious. How would the right change colleges and universities to make them more "acceptable"?

By teaching Perceived Fact as Perceived Fact, Perceived Truth as Perceived Truth, Perceived Ideal, Value, Perspective, Ideology, at face value, nothing more, nothing less. Remove the spin, present what is known and when relevant, allow for independent thought, discussion, and conclusion. Should the goal be indoctrination or growth. If we find ourselves on a blind path in need of Guides, why blind them before preparing them for what is to come? Why limit them in that way? Why should our stumbling blocks be theirs?

 

[Wry Catcher]

I suppose Liberty University and Regent Law School (remember Monica Goodling) are examples which reflect the views of social conservatives, as well as Bob Jones University pre 2000.

A liberal arts program starts with this question: Why? What follows is an open ended, life long exploration, deductive in nature with each hypothesis tested and tested again and again.

It seems in the centers of education noted above "Why" is a given, and what follows is an inductive process to weed out anything which might re-open the question to debate.

A college eduction is more than a training school, and a career as an engineer or CAD designer can be had without asking why or accepting why as a given. Do we really want our scientists and doctors of medicine, reasearchers and lawyers to learn a trade alone, or should we require a background in ethics and the humanities too?

 

[High_Gravity]

Send em all to the Marines before they go to college.

 

[Anachronism]

1. So all arts and humanities courses are a waste of time?

When they are the sole basis for an education that is supposed to prepare you for a CAREER and the ability to make a living, YES they are. As I commented about Wesleyan University in my hometown. The sole piece of necessary info out of that education is the phrase.... "Would you like fries with that?" because it's all that education qualifies you to do in my experience and opinion.

2. Oh, I see. You think all meaningful education is basically industrial arts education.

Industrial Arts, not necessarily. Career focused and oriented, DEFINITELY. College is the place to learn the skills and information necessary to provide the foundation for your career; whether that is in engineering, law, medicine, accounting, hotel & restaurant management, business, etc.... I believe that Elementary & Secondary Ed should be about providing the basic building blocks (or technical/trades for those not going on to college) and collegiate education should be about building the foundation for a career.

Well, given that you believe that FEUDALISM is the best structure of society, I suppose that makes sense.

Yes it does and thank you for seeing that.

Tell me Anachromism, what class would you be in, in your ideal society?

In the sort of society that I envision I'd be a tradesman or involved in the military/security sector. Definitely not a member of the ruling class or the business class but somewhere slightly above the unskilled laborers.

 

[Anachronism]

A college eduction is more than a training school, and a career as an engineer or CAD designer can be had without asking why or accepting why as a given. Do we really want our scientists and doctors of medicine, reasearchers and lawyers to learn a trade alone, or should we require a background in ethics and the humanities too?

Ethics, morals, and values shouldn't need to be taught in a school. Those are things that should be instilled by society and family long before anyone gets anywhere near a college environment. If they haven't been by that time, it's likely they're not going to stick anyway.

The humanities are a wonderful concept; as are many of the other liberal arts ideals out there; but they should never be the main focus of an education. They're a nice add-on, but when they become the main thrust of an education you get an individual whose mind is so open it falls right out their ears. I can say that as someone who has known people with that type of education and watched the Wesleyan students in my hometown for years graduate with no ability to find meaningful work in most cases.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I would enforce the Constitutional right to free speech on equal terms.

Not this constant crap of putting liberal kids at the entrances and conservative ones in the "Free speech zones."

I would also sue any college that didn't allow all students the same chance to voice thier views.

As it is now, only liberal ideals get heard constantly, conservative ones are moved out or shut down.

fyi; That's tyranny

 

[Wry Catcher]

Quote from USMB Member:

"Because academia is overwhelmingly left. Thats to include college students. It just goes to show ya that when people begin to take responsibility for their own lives and get out of that academic atmosphere they wise up."

This is actually a very common comment from the Right on the USMB regarding "higher education". What is it saying about "education"? How would conservatives change that perspective, if it needed to be changed at all?

Look at a few of the more popular areas. Science. How would the right change the way "science" is taught to make it more "conservative" and still have it be called "science"?

Economics and "Trickle Down". When economics is taught, it's based on statistics, data and research. If the data shows something different than what conservatives want taught, should they ignore the data? Should conservative "notions" follow the same rigorous standard"?

What about history? What would be taught "differently"?

Psychology? Should it be taught that being "gay" is a "mental illness"? What would be the "cure"?

Would there be a course on "Physical Evidence Proving God's Existence"?

Would there be "morning prayer"?

I'm simply curious. How would the right change colleges and universities to make them more "acceptable"?

By teaching Perceived Fact as Perceived Fact, Perceived Truth as Perceived Truth, Perceived Ideal, Value, Perspective, Ideology, at face value, nothing more, nothing less. Remove the spin, present what is known and when relevant, allow for independent thought, discussion, and conclusion. Should the goal be indoctrination or growth. If we find ourselves on a blind path in need of Guides, why blind them before preparing them for what is to come? Why limit them in that way? Why should our stumbling blocks be theirs?

Intense, your post is confusing. You seem to suggest "the right" would change colleges by adopting a liberal arts curriculum?

A typical liberal arts course would, for example, explore a topic, such as capital punishment or abortion or racism. Lectures would include the history of the topic and a general description of authors and other artist's (poets, lyrics in popular culture, painters, photographers, etc.) opinons on the issue. Students would discuss and share their opinions in class and then be required to write a ten-page paper on the issue or answer an open ended question on blue book exam; both would require the student to describe what they learned and from whom as well as their own opinon and why.

 

[High_Gravity]

If college campuses are supposed to be so liberal and free how come Military Recruiters are not allowed?

 

[Wry Catcher]

I would enforce the Constitutional right to free speech on equal terms.

Not this constant crap of putting liberal kids at the entrances and conservative ones in the "Free speech zones."

I would also sue any college that didn't allow all students the same chance to voice thier views.

As it is now, only liberal ideals get heard constantly, conservative ones are moved out or shut down.

fyi; That's tyranny

"I would enforce the Constitutional right to free speech on equal terms."
Congress shall make no law...; Remember, the Free Speech Movement began at CAL


"Not this constant crap of putting liberal kids at the entrances and conservative ones in the "Free speech zones."" Huh? Evidence please

"I would also sue any college that didn't allow all students the same chance to voice thier views." You don't have standing to do so

"fyi; That's tyranny" You don't seem to have a clue as to what tyranny is

 

[Wry Catcher]

If college campuses are supposed to be so liberal and free how come Military Recruiters are not allowed?

“The Berkeley campus has a long standing ROTC program, dating back to 1870 [two years after it was founded], of which we are very proud. All branches of the Armed Forces, including the Marines, are welcome to recruit on the Berkeley campus and I have defended vigorously our policy when various groups have objected to it. The Berkeley campus also offers financial aid and other preferences to veterans and the dependents of soldiers deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan… I join the chorus of voices who find [the resolutions to ban Marine recruitment from the City] ill advised, intemperate, and hurtful, particularly to the young men and women and their families who are sacrificing so much for our country.” (Letter to Congressman Campbell, dated February 8, 2008)

Sorry pal, you're Red Herring won't hunt.

 

[High_Gravity]

If college campuses are supposed to be so liberal and free how come Military Recruiters are not allowed?

“The Berkeley campus has a long standing ROTC program, dating back to 1870 [two years after it was founded], of which we are very proud. All branches of the Armed Forces, including the Marines, are welcome to recruit on the Berkeley campus and I have defended vigorously our policy when various groups have objected to it. The Berkeley campus also offers financial aid and other preferences to veterans and the dependents of soldiers deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan… I join the chorus of voices who find [the resolutions to ban Marine recruitment from the City] ill advised, intemperate, and hurtful, particularly to the young men and women and their families who are sacrificing so much for our country.” (Letter to Congressman Campbell, dated February 8, 2008)

Sorry pal, you're Red Herring won't hunt.

I know not all campuses are like that but I know some colleges are, in UCSB they burned down the ROTC building during the Vietnam war and they were never brought back, Harvard also does not allow Military recruiters or ROTC. If these institutions claim to allow free thinking there are no reasons why ROTC and the Military should not be allowed.

 

[Wry Catcher]

A college eduction is more than a training school, and a career as an engineer or CAD designer can be had without asking why or accepting why as a given. Do we really want our scientists and doctors of medicine, reasearchers and lawyers to learn a trade alone, or should we require a background in ethics and the humanities too?

Ethics, morals, and values shouldn't need to be taught in a school. Those are things that should be instilled by society and family long before anyone gets anywhere near a college environment. If they haven't been by that time, it's likely they're not going to stick anyway.

The humanities are a wonderful concept; as are many of the other liberal arts ideals out there; but they should never be the main focus of an education. They're a nice add-on, but when they become the main thrust of an education you get an individual whose mind is so open it falls right out their ears. I can say that as someone who has known people with that type of education and watched the Wesleyan students in my hometown for years graduate with no ability to find meaningful work in most cases.

"Ethics, morals, and values" are not "taught" in the sense one learns how to type. What you suggest honors suicide bombers who're taught by their family/society that what they do is good, moral and ethical (I suppose). In short, you have adopted ethical/moral relativism. Understand, ethics is part of every occupation, Professional, Skilled and Unskilled. The mortagage broker who 'sells' a loan to someone s/he knows will eventually default, but knows s/he can sell the mortgage to another before that happens makes a ethical/moral judgment as does someone who finds a wallet and returns it in full to the rightful owner.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I would enforce the Constitutional right to free speech on equal terms.

Not this constant crap of putting liberal kids at the entrances and conservative ones in the "Free speech zones."

I would also sue any college that didn't allow all students the same chance to voice thier views.

As it is now, only liberal ideals get heard constantly, conservative ones are moved out or shut down.

fyi; That's tyranny

"I would enforce the Constitutional right to free speech on equal terms."
Congress shall make no law...; Remember, the Free Speech Movement began at CAL


"Not this constant crap of putting liberal kids at the entrances and conservative ones in the "Free speech zones."" Huh? Evidence please

"I would also sue any college that didn't allow all students the same chance to voice thier views." You don't have standing to do so

"fyi; That's tyranny" You don't seem to have a clue as to what tyranny is

USATODAY.com - On campus: Free speech for you but not for me?

Academic Freedom and Conservative Speech on Campus | Penn News

Conservative Activism On Campus |

Want more?

Tyranny is an unrestrained use of power.

Shutting down conservative speech is tyranny.

 

[Samson]

Quote from USMB Member:

"Because academia is overwhelmingly left. Thats to include college students. It just goes to show ya that when people begin to take responsibility for their own lives and get out of that academic atmosphere they wise up."

This is actually a very common comment from the Right on the USMB regarding "higher education". What is it saying about "education"? How would conservatives change that perspective, if it needed to be changed at all?

Look at a few of the more popular areas. Science. How would the right change the way "science" is taught to make it more "conservative" and still have it be called "science"?

Economics and "Trickle Down". When economics is taught, it's based on statistics, data and research. If the data shows something different than what conservatives want taught, should they ignore the data? Should conservative "notions" follow the same rigorous standard"?

What about history? What would be taught "differently"?

Psychology? Should it be taught that being "gay" is a "mental illness"? What would be the "cure"?

Would there be a course on "Physical Evidence Proving God's Existence"?

Would there be "morning prayer"?

I'm simply curious. How would the right change colleges and universities to make them more "acceptable"?

By teaching Perceived Fact as Perceived Fact, Perceived Truth as Perceived Truth, Perceived Ideal, Value, Perspective, Ideology, at face value, nothing more, nothing less. Remove the spin, present what is known and when relevant, allow for independent thought, discussion, and conclusion. Should the goal be indoctrination or growth. If we find ourselves on a blind path in need of Guides, why blind them before preparing them for what is to come? Why limit them in that way? Why should our stumbling blocks be theirs?

One thing's for damn sure....

We DO NOT need more classes in using the "?" as punctuation.