Universal healthcare....

[LilOlLady]

UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE....

A disaster waiting to happen? A necessary evil?
Plan is great and idea is great. Covers everyone with affordable healthcare.
The problem begins when 47 million is added to the HC system. Something on a smaller scale when the baby boomers are added to social security and medicare. More anchor babies are added to medicaid. Healthcare reform is a disaster waiting to happen.

Where are we going to get sufficient primary physicians, specialists, surgeons and nurses to serve all those seeking medical care? Waits are long now to see primary physicians, to see specialist and for surgeries unless it is an emergency.

We do not have sufficient medical providers to handle the patients that will be added to the HC system. If this HC reform bill is passed, it will have to be phrased in over a period of many years and a massive medical care providers training program, more nurses trained, more hospitals and clinics built and staffed, etc.

The reason universal HC works in other countries is they do not have to population we have. And the rhetoric that “no healthcare coverage for illegal aliens” is a lie. If they are here or given amnesty, they will be covered.
Great idea and great plan but I just don’t see it working.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I think those are some good and valid points you make there.

You may be interested in a thread i made a few weeks ago.... http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...ti-hr-3200-government-run-care-sound-off.html

 

[Big Black Dog]

Some good questions you have asked. Let's think for a moment. The government has already taken over the banking industry, the auto industry, the home mortgare industry and have obligated trillions of dollars to stimulate the economy. None of it seems to be working very well. The government can't manage Social Security and Medicare and the Post Office. Two questions: (1) With the government's inability to manage large programs as mentioned above, and no way to pay for them once they are implemented, why would you want them to manage your health care? (2) After the government takes over health care for all Americans, what will be the next element of your life the government will try to control? There really won't be very much left and absolutely no privacy in your life. I don't understand why any sane person would want a government controled and run health care plan. It makes no sense to me.

 

[auditor0007]

UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE....

A disaster waiting to happen? A necessary evil?
Plan is great and idea is great. Covers everyone with affordable healthcare.
The problem begins when 47 million is added to the HC system. Something on a smaller scale when the baby boomers are added to social security and medicare. More anchor babies are added to medicaid. Healthcare reform is a disaster waiting to happen.

Where are we going to get sufficient primary physicians, specialists, surgeons and nurses to serve all those seeking medical care? Waits are long now to see primary physicians, to see specialist and for surgeries unless it is an emergency.

We do not have sufficient medical providers to handle the patients that will be added to the HC system. If this HC reform bill is passed, it will have to be phrased in over a period of many years and a massive medical care providers training program, more nurses trained, more hospitals and clinics built and staffed, etc.

The reason universal HC works in other countries is they do not have to population we have. And the rhetoric that “no healthcare coverage for illegal aliens” is a lie. If they are here or given amnesty, they will be covered.
Great idea and great plan but I just don’t see it working.

I thought the argument was that everybody that needs medical treatment is already getting it? Okay, I am being facetious, but that actually is the argument you will hear from a great many.

Yes, we do need more doctors and nurses and lab techs. Finding a way to reduce the cost of education would be a good starting point, to get more people into these positions. If educational costs could be reduced, pay could be reduced long term. Not saying we should look to find people to work for nothing, but we pay a very high amount for everyone in the medical field.

There are many ideas that could help to reduce overall costs on top of that. Allowing nurse practitioners to handle more basic care of patients through regular offices or medical clinics would be on small step in the right direction. Tort reform is an obvious item that must be addressed. There are a slew of positive changes that could be made.

What bothers me is that we have a bunch of politicians, from both sides, who think they are smart enough to come up with all the answers, yet they have zero practical experience in the field. Yes, they are the ones who should vote on changes, but why are they the ones making the suggested changes to begin with? There are a great many intelligent people out there who could and should be involved in the process, but instead we are leaving it up to self serving politicians to decide our future care.

 

[nia588]

you know people keep on complaining about the government taking over banking,auto and other industries. but people have nothing but themselves to blame for it. banks shouldn't complain because they were giving loans to people who couldn't afford to pay them back. the let people take out mortgages on homes they couldn't afford.

the problem is when this industries were private people were not running them properly so now the government has to step in and fix the mess.

same thing with health care. insurance companies are so greedy. drug companies are greedy. so people cannot afford health care. people are dying and getting sick. and even if you do have a insurance it's not guarantee they'll pay your medicals cost. they have to see if you eligible or not.

and having government controlled health care is not a bad thing. tons of countries have universal health care and their people are well take care of. we are the only modern western country that does not have national health care. it's quite embarrassing really.

 

[Political Junky]

UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE....

A disaster waiting to happen? A necessary evil?
Plan is great and idea is great. Covers everyone with affordable healthcare.
The problem begins when 47 million is added to the HC system. Something on a smaller scale when the baby boomers are added to social security and medicare. More anchor babies are added to medicaid. Healthcare reform is a disaster waiting to happen.

Where are we going to get sufficient primary physicians, specialists, surgeons and nurses to serve all those seeking medical care? Waits are long now to see primary physicians, to see specialist and for surgeries unless it is an emergency.

We do not have sufficient medical providers to handle the patients that will be added to the HC system. If this HC reform bill is passed, it will have to be phrased in over a period of many years and a massive medical care providers training program, more nurses trained, more hospitals and clinics built and staffed, etc.

The reason universal HC works in other countries is they do not have to population we have. And the rhetoric that “no healthcare coverage for illegal aliens” is a lie. If they are here or given amnesty, they will be covered.
Great idea and great plan but I just don’t see it working.

Easy, we'd have more doctors. Countries with universal care have free medical school.

 

[wvpeach]

Good points made by political junky , nia588 and auditor0007

Well said all of you.

Lilolady. I think those three made a good start towards answering your questions.


I'll add one thing. In the stimulus bill ( AKA recovery act) President Obama put some money in to fund scholarships for health care providers. Not near enough. But it was a start.

 

[veritas]

In France and Germany, education is effectively free. If you can hang and make good grades, you get an education for next to nothing. That includes non-citizens!!! Why do you think Mohammed Atta was getting his engineering degree in Germany?

Any of you could go to France or Germany and test in and start getting your degrees if your talents are good enough. Sweden has this as well.

We suck.

 

[LilOlLady]

Some good questions you have asked. Let's think for a moment. The government has already taken over the banking industry, the auto industry, the home mortgare industry and have obligated trillions of dollars to stimulate the economy. None of it seems to be working very well. The government can't manage Social Security and Medicare and the Post Office. Two questions: (1) With the government's inability to manage large programs as mentioned above, and no way to pay for them once they are implemented, why would you want them to manage your health care? (2) After the government takes over health care for all Americans, what will be the next element of your life the government will try to control? There really won't be very much left and absolutely no privacy in your life. I don't understand why any sane person would want a government controled and run health care plan. It makes no sense to me.

You are evidently a victim of the scare tactic program. Gov't have not taken over the above and don't want to. They were asked for a boost and that is only what they gave.
SS, Medicare and Post Office works quite well and is not the fault of the gov't if it don't. Economy trashed by Bush is the reason for the problems.
Do you know all the programs that gov't do run that you cannot and will not do without. You are taking advantage of gov't run something before you even step out your door and go to work.
Gov't wish you would leave them alone and stay out of their right to run this country. Right that you gave them.

 

[LilOlLady]

BIgBlackDog
GOVERNMENT RUN PROGRAMS.

Medicare, Medicaid, county dental and medical clinics, senior centers, meals on wheels, veteran clinics and hospitals, rest homes, mental health clinic and hospitals, SCHIP, food stamps, WIC, federal food banks, Medicare prescription drug program, U.S. post office, law enforcement, fire dept, roads, energy assistance, social security, courts, libraries, military. Section 8 and HUD, FHA, schools and school lunch program, recreation centers, numerous federal, state and county, even city run programs. Just to name a few. All of these programs are government run and if you don’t want government in your lives, keep your children out of these programs and you stay out of them too.
The list is just to numerous to list. To get away from U.S. government interference in our lives, we would have to leave the country. That may not be a bad idea after all. Too bad you and I cannot choose which ones we want to support. That the democracy you right wing bible thumpers love so much and are willing to die for.

 

[Oddball]

In France and Germany, education is effectively free. If you can hang and make good grades, you get an education for next to nothing. That includes non-citizens!!! Why do you think Mohammed Atta was getting his engineering degree in Germany?

Any of you could go to France or Germany and test in and start getting your degrees if your talents are good enough. Sweden has this as well.

We suck.

What are you still doing here, tovarich?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

BIgBlackDog
GOVERNMENT RUN PROGRAMS.

Medicare, Medicaid, county dental and medical clinics, senior centers, meals on wheels, veteran clinics and hospitals, rest homes, mental health clinic and hospitals, SCHIP, food stamps, WIC, federal food banks, Medicare prescription drug program, U.S. post office, law enforcement, fire dept, roads, energy assistance, social security, courts, libraries, military. Section 8 and HUD, FHA, schools and school lunch program, recreation centers, numerous federal, state and county, even city run programs. Just to name a few. All of these programs are government run and if you don’t want government in your lives, keep your children out of these programs and you stay out of them too.
The list is just to numerous to list. To get away from U.S. government interference in our lives, we would have to leave the country. That may not be a bad idea after all. Too bad you and I cannot choose which ones we want to support. That the democracy you right wing bible thumpers love so much and are willing to die for.

With that giant list and the myriad of failing programs listed there do we really want to add ANOTHER responsibility to our failure of a federal govt?

I'm afraid that like social security, they will turn the health care funds into a ponzie scheme and screw us all.

The ONLY way i'll even consider this plan is if they change the language that exempts the congress and the executive branch from having to be in the very system they are designing for the rest of us. If they will put themselves and their families in the same plan they are making for the "poor" americans who dont have insurance then i'll consider it.

 

[Valerie]

and having government controlled health care is not a bad thing. tons of countries have universal health care and their people are well take care of. we are the only modern western country that does not have national health care. it's quite embarrassing really.

Universal Health Care and National Health Care ("government controlled health care") are two different things.

Good health is important to everyone. If you can't afford to pay for medical care right now, Medicaid can make it possible for you to get the care that you need so that you can get healthy – and stay healthy.

Medicaid is available only to certain low-income individuals and families who fit into an eligibility group that is recognized by federal and state law. Medicaid does not pay money to you; instead, it sends payments directly to your health care providers. Depending on your state's rules, you may also be asked to pay a small part of the cost (co-payment) for some medical services. ("Medicaid At-A-Glance 2005" may be downloaded from the bottom of the page.)

Medicaid is a state administered program and each state sets its own guidelines regarding eligibility and services. Read more about your state Medicaid program.

Overview Medicaid Program - General Information

The issue is not whether or not to care for the health of all citizens UNIVERSALLY, it is how things should be properly structured within our constitution. Suggesting that people who are against the current reform proposal don't care about helping people is just bogus political rhetoric.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE....

A disaster waiting to happen? A necessary evil?
Plan is great and idea is great. Covers everyone with affordable healthcare.
The problem begins when 47 million is added to the HC system. Something on a smaller scale when the baby boomers are added to social security and medicare. More anchor babies are added to medicaid. Healthcare reform is a disaster waiting to happen.

Where are we going to get sufficient primary physicians, specialists, surgeons and nurses to serve all those seeking medical care? Waits are long now to see primary physicians, to see specialist and for surgeries unless it is an emergency.

We do not have sufficient medical providers to handle the patients that will be added to the HC system. If this HC reform bill is passed, it will have to be phrased in over a period of many years and a massive medical care providers training program, more nurses trained, more hospitals and clinics built and staffed, etc.

The reason universal HC works in other countries is they do not have to population we have. And the rhetoric that “no healthcare coverage for illegal aliens” is a lie. If they are here or given amnesty, they will be covered.
Great idea and great plan but I just don’t see it working.

That 47 million figure is ..well.... BULLSHIT.. for lack of a better word.

 

[Valerie]

Calling it a "down payment on my commitment to cover every single American," President Barack Obama signed the Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2009 into law on February 4, 2009. The law will provide health care to millions of children across the country and went into effect on April 1, 2009.

CMS administers the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP). Children began receiving insurance through CHIP in 1997 and the program helped states expand health care coverage to over 5 million of the nation's uninsured children. The program was reauthorized on February 4, 2009, when the President signed into law the Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2009 (CHIPRA or Public Law 111-3). CHIPRA finances the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) through FY 2013. It will preserve coverage for the millions of children who rely on CHIP today and provides the resources for States to reach millions of additional uninsured children. This legislation will help ensure the health and well-being of our nation's children.

The Children's Health Insurance Program is jointly financed by the Federal and State governments and is administered by the States. Within broad Federal guidelines, each State determines the design of its program, eligibility groups, benefit packages, payment levels for coverage, and administrative and operating procedures. CHIP provides a capped amount of funds to States on a matching basis. Federal payments under title XXI to States are based on State expenditures under approved plans effective on or after October 1, 1997.

Overview National CHIP Policy

 

[wvpeach]

and having government controlled health care is not a bad thing. tons of countries have universal health care and their people are well take care of. we are the only modern western country that does not have national health care. it's quite embarrassing really.

Universal Health Care and National Health Care ("government controlled health care") are two different things.

Good health is important to everyone. If you can't afford to pay for medical care right now, Medicaid can make it possible for you to get the care that you need so that you can get healthy – and stay healthy.

Medicaid is available only to certain low-income individuals and families who fit into an eligibility group that is recognized by federal and state law. Medicaid does not pay money to you; instead, it sends payments directly to your health care providers. Depending on your state's rules, you may also be asked to pay a small part of the cost (co-payment) for some medical services. ("Medicaid At-A-Glance 2005" may be downloaded from the bottom of the page.)

Medicaid is a state administered program and each state sets its own guidelines regarding eligibility and services. Read more about your state Medicaid program.

Overview Medicaid Program - General Information

The issue is not whether or not to care for the health of all citizens UNIVERSALLY, it is how things should be properly structured within our constitution. Suggesting that people who are against the current reform proposal don't care about helping people is just bogus political rhetoric.

Winston Churchill whom you quote in your signature, is the one who started universal health care in the UK after world war 2.

So what say you Valerie? Shall we have a universal system like Churchill started and now runs in the UK?

 

[Valerie]

and having government controlled health care is not a bad thing. tons of countries have universal health care and their people are well take care of. we are the only modern western country that does not have national health care. it's quite embarrassing really.

Universal Health Care and National Health Care ("government controlled health care") are two different things.

Good health is important to everyone. If you can't afford to pay for medical care right now, Medicaid can make it possible for you to get the care that you need so that you can get healthy – and stay healthy.

Medicaid is available only to certain low-income individuals and families who fit into an eligibility group that is recognized by federal and state law. Medicaid does not pay money to you; instead, it sends payments directly to your health care providers. Depending on your state's rules, you may also be asked to pay a small part of the cost (co-payment) for some medical services. ("Medicaid At-A-Glance 2005" may be downloaded from the bottom of the page.)

Medicaid is a state administered program and each state sets its own guidelines regarding eligibility and services. Read more about your state Medicaid program.

Overview Medicaid Program - General Information

The issue is not whether or not to care for the health of all citizens UNIVERSALLY, it is how things should be properly structured within our constitution. Suggesting that people who are against the current reform proposal don't care about helping people is just bogus political rhetoric.

Winston Churchill whom you quote in your signature, is the one who started universal health care in the UK after world war 2.

So what say you Valerie? Shall we have a universal system like Churchill started and now runs in the UK?

My signature line quote has to do with grammar.

 

[wvpeach]

What does that have to do with answering the question Valerie?

You said you do not like the current options for health care being offered.

I asked if you would support a plan like the UK has?

How about Germany's ?

France's ?
Sweden's?
Findland's ?
Australia's?
Israel's ?
Saudi Arabia's ?
Dubai's ?
Peru's?
Brazil's ?
Ireland?
Scotland ?
Whales ?
Singapores ?
New Zealands ?

ARe you for one of the universal health care plans the above countries have , or did you have another nations coverage in mind I failed to list?

Which countries universal health care would you most like the US to model our plan on Valerie?

Or do you have a plan to pick and choose from a mix of several of their plans?

 

[Valerie]

Why can't the federal government pass a law that says if you want to be in the business of administering health insurance to American citizens then you are prohibited by law from denying equitable coverage for citizens with preexisting conditions...?

Why can't the federal government pass a law that says if you want to be in the business of administering health insurance to American citizens you must offer equitable coverage that is not tied to employment status...?

Why do we accept that we need the government to be the insurance administrator in order for insurance coverage to be universal?

 

[Valerie]

You said you do not like the current options for health care being offered.

No I didn't.