Universal Health Care

[Andylusion]

What is Universal Health Care.

Nobody gives me the same answer.

basic well being

how long you live depends a lot on your life style....you can have Dr Crusher from the Enterprise as your Dr. if you dont follow her advice about how smoking and your eating habits are killing you....what good was it?...

or you could step off a curb & get hit by a bus.

yea except that has nothing to do with health care....

i was answering the part about after the fact. no healthcare = less than adequate chances for a favorable outcome.

Define basic well being.

How will you know when you have it ?

when simple well being visits are 100% covered to catch something early b4 it turns into a more debilitating disease or condition. sounds like what true conservatism used to be. AND it sounds like a mandate already covered by the ACA. something that donny wants taken away - with nothing absolutely nothing to replace it.

Preventative care, costs more money, than treating people when they have a problem.

Because you don't know who is going to get an illness, and who won't. The cost to provide $1,000 worth or preventative medicine to everyone, is always more expensive, than paying nothing, and just treating the person who gets ill.

This is why preventative medicine is rare in Europe and Canada, and elsewhere. The US has more preventative care, than anywhere else in the world... specifically because individual people pay for it.

Remember when Obama was president, and we had the ACA, and one of the things they tried to do, was reducing the recommended times for having breast cancer screenings? That wasn't random. When the government has to pay for it, the math doesn't add up. So they were reducing the recommendations to save money on health care.

 

[playtime]

lol. sorry - i was gonna try to answer then i thought i left the thread, but musta hit the reply button. i guess i'll give it a shot. UHC is that basic well being healthcare is automatically covered without cost & other healthcare is as well, no premiums, no copays, co-ins etc. everything is 'covered' thru taxes.

even serious expensive diseases?....

would you truly want someone asking you that if you were diagnosed with one? yo think people should go completely bankrupt & have their home foreclosed cause they had cancer or something just as bad?

you did not answer my question did you?...try again....

i answered it perfectly fine. healthcare is healthcare, whether it's from a disease or an accident. people who need healthcare shouldn't lose their life savings or die because they can't afford insurance.

First off, people are not dying because they don't have insurance. I know people who had cancer, and were treated. In fact, I myself went to the hospital without insurance, and they treated me just fine.

As for losing money.... why? Why do you expect other people to serve you for free? Should I be able to demand you serve me, without paying you? What are you advocating here, slavery?

You think losing 50% of your entire income, won't harm your "life savings"? Heck you are likely not have any savings at all, given your plan to tax all our money away to pay for "free" health are.

How people pay for what services and goods they get?[/QUOTE]

& i know people who have died because they didn't have the cash to pay for the treatment they needed - but were only given medical help to make them 'comfortable' while they slowly died.

you got healthcare because no hospital can legally turn you away. you think they absorbed that cost outa the goodness of their hearts? people WITH insurance paid for it thru higher premiums. which meant people like ME.

i no problems paying higher taxes if it meant basic healthcare was covered 100% lol... no copays, no co insurance, no premiums... people already pay 1000s of dollars every year for outa pocket costs & still get denied. because bighealthcorp profits are in the stratosphere.

 

[playtime]

What is Universal Health Care.

Nobody gives me the same answer.

basic well being

or you could step off a curb & get hit by a bus.

yea except that has nothing to do with health care....

i was answering the part about after the fact. no healthcare = less than adequate chances for a favorable outcome.

Define basic well being.

How will you know when you have it ?

when simple well being visits are 100% covered to catch something early b4 it turns into a more debilitating disease or condition. sounds like what true conservatism used to be. AND it sounds like a mandate already covered by the ACA. something that donny wants taken away - with nothing absolutely nothing to replace it.

Preventative care, costs more money, than treating people when they have a problem.

Because you don't know who is going to get an illness, and who won't. The cost to provide $1,000 worth or preventative medicine to everyone, is always more expensive, than paying nothing, and just treating the person who gets ill.

This is why preventative medicine is rare in Europe and Canada, and elsewhere. The US has more preventative care, than anywhere else in the world... specifically because individual people pay for it.

Remember when Obama was president, and we had the ACA, and one of the things they tried to do, was reducing the recommended times for having breast cancer screenings? That wasn't random. When the government has to pay for it, the math doesn't add up. So they were reducing the recommendations to save money on health care.

that's pure bullshit. a mammogram NOW when a tumor might not even be felt but can be treated at stage 1 is much more cost effective than a stage 4 cancer. basic math will tell you it's less expensive for someone that can go to the doctor for a fucking cold, instead of the hospital. this doc is a few years old - but quite enlightening & kinda blows your 'theories' outa the water. are their systems perfect? nope. but not one person in any of them thar socialistic countries said they would trade their UHC system for our profit driven one. the documentary compares the US to germany, switzerland, japan, and taiwan. here's the trailer:



& here's the full doc.




'UHC' nations actually pay their doctors based on their healthcare outcomes. the healthier their patients stay, the more they are compensated.

 

[playtime]

What 25 healthcare CEOs earned in 2018
Mackenzie Garrity - Tuesday, April 23rd, 2019

The salaries for chief executives often vary with some in the single-digit millions to beyond $25 million. Business Insider explored the salaries of 25 CEOs in the healthcare industry to see how the executives compared in 2018.

Business Insider evaluated compensation packages, which includes salaries, stocks and benefits, along with other incentives.

Below are the pay packages of 25 CEOs, listed in ascending order:

1. Allergan CEO Brent Saunders: $6,624,473
2. GlaxoSmithKline CEO Emma Walmsley: $7,662,210
3. Illumina CEO Francis deSouza: $11,067,566
4. Walgreens CEO Stefano Pessina: $13,542,260
5. Anthem CEO Gail Boudreaux: $14,184,276
6. Bausch Health CEO: $14,741,050
7. AstraZeneca CEO Pascal Soriot: $14,780,288
8. Molina Healthcare CEO Joseph Zubretsky: $15,219,770
9. Humana CEO Bruce Broussard: $16,312,517
10. Alexion CEO Ludwig Hantson: $16,490,250
11. Eli Lilly CEO David Ricks: $17,230,337
12. Medtronic CEO Omar Ishrak: $17,585,131
13. Merck CEO Ken Fraizer: $17,643,087
14. UnitedHealth Group CEO David Wichmann: $18,107,356
15. Amgen CEO Robert Bradway: $18,555,266
16. Thermo Fisher CEO Marc Casper: $18,607,103
17. Cigna CEO David Cordani: $18,944,045
18. Pfizer CEO Ian Read: $19,549,213
19. Johnson & Johnson CEO Alex Gorsky: $20,111,045
20. AbbVie CEO Rick Gonzalez: $21,271,869
21. HCA Healthcare CEO R. Milton Johnson: $21,419,906
22. CVS Health CEO Larry Merlo: $21,953,040
23. Abbott Laboratories CEO Miles White: $24,254,238
24. Gilead Sciences CEO John Milligan: $25,961,831
25. Centene CEO Michael Neidorff: $26,122,414

link:
What 25 healthcare CEOs earned in 2018: The salaries for chief executives often vary with some in the single-digit millions to beyond $25 million. Business Insider explored the salaries of 25 CEOs in the healthcare industry to see how the executives compared in 2018.

 

[dblack]

UHC is that basic well being healthcare is automatically covered without cost & other healthcare is as well, no premiums, no copays, co-ins etc. everything is 'covered' thru taxes.

So, am I right in assuming government (ie the politicians in power at the time) will determine what constitutes "basic health care"?

"Dr. Trump will see you now ..."

no... the people who would know - the medical profession. guess what? they were the ones that were consulted with the ACA. all them thar well healthcare mandates came from their input.

What? The medical profession will make the rules for UHC? I don't really buy that. And I don't think you can support the claim. Politicians will make the laws. They might, or might not, consult with lobbyists from the medical profession. Obviously, there will be many, many other lobbyists vying for their favors.

The thing is, making health care a government concern makes it a political concern. It will turn every single election into a referendum on health care. Every single vote could decide whether grandma lives or dies. Our politics are stressed to the breaking point as it is. We don't need more issues to fight about.

the mandates already covered in the ACA were implemented with the medical profession's input. i didn't say the 'rules' were written by them. why do you think the house flipped in 2018? the #1 reason, was healthcare. the voters' have spoken.

Heh.. sure they have. So, what did they say?

you want big healthcorp to be back in the driver's seat?]

They're still in the drivers seat. They want to partner up with government so they have even more control. Go team!

 

[Harry Dresden]

What is Universal Health Care.

Nobody gives me the same answer.

basic well being

yea except that has nothing to do with health care....

i was answering the part about after the fact. no healthcare = less than adequate chances for a favorable outcome.

for diseases yes.....but walking across the street and getting hit by a vehical?......

spinal cord injury.... brain injury.... physical rehab......... surgery for internal injuries...... really? you didn't think that one through, did ya?

we are talking about 2 different things....

no. healthcare is healthcare.

diseases vs physical injury....

 

[Harry Dresden]

I wonder if you could get any more vague and subjective?

lol. sorry - i was gonna try to answer then i thought i left the thread, but musta hit the reply button. i guess i'll give it a shot. UHC is that basic well being healthcare is automatically covered without cost & other healthcare is as well, no premiums, no copays, co-ins etc. everything is 'covered' thru taxes.

even serious expensive diseases?....

would you truly want someone asking you that if you were diagnosed with one? yo think people should go completely bankrupt & have their home foreclosed cause they had cancer or something just as bad?

you did not answer my question did you?...try again....

i answered it perfectly fine. healthcare is healthcare, whether it's from a disease or an accident. people who need healthcare shouldn't lose their life savings or die because they can't afford insurance.[/QUOTE]
well then my question from long ago comes back....will universal healthcare cover the serious expensive things or will they be selective like ins now?....

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Burning with desire to have "Medicare For All"?

Actually I'm not. We have the ACA and it should be stronger with a Democrat maj and Potus.

You’ll have to get the judges switched out to get the individual mandate declared legal for BO care to have the intended effect of destroying private insurers.

That is why I always vote party over person. Your welcome Trump.

 

[dblack]

well then my question from long ago comes back....will universal healthcare cover the serious expensive things or will they be selective like ins now?....

Of course it will be selective. The unfortunate fact of life is that every single one of us will, eventually, be up against a wall where only expensive health care will keep us alive. And someone will have to decide if you're worth it. The "decider" will be one signing the checks. If you're paying for your own health care, you'll decide. If your family is footing the bill, they'll decide. If an insurance company is responsible, they'll decide - nominally following the terms of the policy (better make sure you understand those terms). If government is responsible, Donald Trump (via his appointees) will make the call. Good luck with that.

 

[Harry Dresden]

well then my question from long ago comes back....will universal healthcare cover the serious expensive things or will they be selective like ins now?....

Of course it will be selective. The unfortunate fact of life is that every single one of us will, eventually, be up against a wall where only expensive health care will keep us alive. And someone will have to decide if you're worth it. The "decider" will be one signing the checks. If you're paying for your own health care, you'll decide. If your family is footing the bill, they'll decide. If an insurance company is responsible, they'll decide - nominally following the terms of the policy (better make sure you understand those terms). If government is responsible, Donald Trump (via his appointees) will make the call. Good luck with that.

i know that...the question was for the guy i was responding too....

 

[Andylusion]

even serious expensive diseases?....

would you truly want someone asking you that if you were diagnosed with one? yo think people should go completely bankrupt & have their home foreclosed cause they had cancer or something just as bad?

you did not answer my question did you?...try again....

i answered it perfectly fine. healthcare is healthcare, whether it's from a disease or an accident. people who need healthcare shouldn't lose their life savings or die because they can't afford insurance.

First off, people are not dying because they don't have insurance. I know people who had cancer, and were treated. In fact, I myself went to the hospital without insurance, and they treated me just fine.

As for losing money.... why? Why do you expect other people to serve you for free? Should I be able to demand you serve me, without paying you? What are you advocating here, slavery?

You think losing 50% of your entire income, won't harm your "life savings"? Heck you are likely not have any savings at all, given your plan to tax all our money away to pay for "free" health are.

How people pay for what services and goods they get?

& i know people who have died because they didn't have the cash to pay for the treatment they needed - but were only given medical help to make them 'comfortable' while they slowly died.

you got healthcare because no hospital can legally turn you away. you think they absorbed that cost outa the goodness of their hearts? people WITH insurance paid for it thru higher premiums. which meant people like ME.

i no problems paying higher taxes if it meant basic healthcare was covered 100% lol... no copays, no co insurance, no premiums... people already pay 1000s of dollars every year for outa pocket costs & still get denied. because bighealthcorp profits are in the stratosphere.

So you said they were left to die, and the hospital refused treatment.... then you turn around and said a hospital can't legally refuse to treat someone.

Those are mutually exclusive claims. One has to be a lie. Again, I knew a guy who got cancer, and had no insurance. He went to the hospital, and he got chemo.

you think they absorbed that cost outa the goodness of their hearts?

What the crap are you talking about? They didn't 'absorb' anything. I got a bill. I paid the bill.

no problems paying higher taxes if it meant basic healthcare was covered 100% lol... no copays, no co insurance, no premiums

Yes, you won't have premiums. But you are going to pay more money in taxes, than you are paying now in premiums. Guaranteed.

You realize that in most of Europe, and elsewhere that has government run health care, they all have almost double the taxes we do?

Nearly double. That means at least a 20% increase in taxes, at nearly all income levels. $50,000 = $10,000 in additional taxes.

Do you know anyone anywhere, that is paying insurance premiums of $10,000 per year? No you do not.

My insurance right now, is $100 a month.

Further, I know of no system in the world, that has absolutely no co-pays. UK has co-pays. France has co-pays. Everyone has co-pays.

So the idea, that you are going to pay taxes, and never have any other health care bills... not happening. All the countries that tried that, end up having to put in place fees-at-use to prevent people just non-stop going to the doctor, because they are lonely. They had that in France, and old people were going to the doctor, because they were lonely and wanted to talk. You have to have co-pays. Unavoidable.

Lastly, in all those countries... almost every single one, they have pay-for-service health care on top of their expensive tax funded health care system.

In Germany, most of the public has private insurance, because like all gov-care systems, it sucks. So they have premiums ANYWAY.... The only differences there is, if you don't have insurance, and you go to private hospital, they turn you away. Go die waiting for a public hospital. No cash, no service.

So everything you said.... is still true in all those socialized health care systems around the world. They still have premiums, still have co-pays, AND they lose 1/4 more of their income in taxes to pay for it.

 

[Andylusion]

What 25 healthcare CEOs earned in 2018
Mackenzie Garrity - Tuesday, April 23rd, 2019

The salaries for chief executives often vary with some in the single-digit millions to beyond $25 million. Business Insider explored the salaries of 25 CEOs in the healthcare industry to see how the executives compared in 2018.

Business Insider evaluated compensation packages, which includes salaries, stocks and benefits, along with other incentives.

Below are the pay packages of 25 CEOs, listed in ascending order:

1. Allergan CEO Brent Saunders: $6,624,473
2. GlaxoSmithKline CEO Emma Walmsley: $7,662,210
3. Illumina CEO Francis deSouza: $11,067,566
4. Walgreens CEO Stefano Pessina: $13,542,260
5. Anthem CEO Gail Boudreaux: $14,184,276
6. Bausch Health CEO: $14,741,050
7. AstraZeneca CEO Pascal Soriot: $14,780,288
8. Molina Healthcare CEO Joseph Zubretsky: $15,219,770
9. Humana CEO Bruce Broussard: $16,312,517
10. Alexion CEO Ludwig Hantson: $16,490,250
11. Eli Lilly CEO David Ricks: $17,230,337
12. Medtronic CEO Omar Ishrak: $17,585,131
13. Merck CEO Ken Fraizer: $17,643,087
14. UnitedHealth Group CEO David Wichmann: $18,107,356
15. Amgen CEO Robert Bradway: $18,555,266
16. Thermo Fisher CEO Marc Casper: $18,607,103
17. Cigna CEO David Cordani: $18,944,045
18. Pfizer CEO Ian Read: $19,549,213
19. Johnson & Johnson CEO Alex Gorsky: $20,111,045
20. AbbVie CEO Rick Gonzalez: $21,271,869
21. HCA Healthcare CEO R. Milton Johnson: $21,419,906
22. CVS Health CEO Larry Merlo: $21,953,040
23. Abbott Laboratories CEO Miles White: $24,254,238
24. Gilead Sciences CEO John Milligan: $25,961,831
25. Centene CEO Michael Neidorff: $26,122,414

link:
What 25 healthcare CEOs earned in 2018: The salaries for chief executives often vary with some in the single-digit millions to beyond $25 million. Business Insider explored the salaries of 25 CEOs in the healthcare industry to see how the executives compared in 2018.

So what? I don't get why you are even bringing that up.

This is why the right-wing is flat out better people. We're not driven by greed and envy of others. What difference does any of that make?

None. So why bring it up? Because you are driven by greed and envy. That's all there is to it.

You know who doesn't have super wealthy CEOs? Venezuela.

As Venezuela's healthcare collapses, pregnant women, girls bear brunt of crisis

In Caracas's main maternity hospital the blood banks and medicine cabinets are empty, the power and water regularly cut out - and women and girls are dying needlessly, according to one of the few remaining doctors, Luisangela Correa.
​

But you don't give a crap, because at least there are no wealthy CEOs, right? So much better over there, without those CEOs making money. So much more humane, without water, power, medicine... are even doctors... you know doctors make a lot of money too, so....

So much BS... so much greedy envious hate-filled left-wingers. You people need to grow up.

Everything is so much better here in the US, than anywhere else in the world, and all you can do is act like a spoiled brat teenager, crying that someone else has more stuff than you.

 

[playtime]

UHC is that basic well being healthcare is automatically covered without cost & other healthcare is as well, no premiums, no copays, co-ins etc. everything is 'covered' thru taxes.

So, am I right in assuming government (ie the politicians in power at the time) will determine what constitutes "basic health care"?

"Dr. Trump will see you now ..."

no... the people who would know - the medical profession. guess what? they were the ones that were consulted with the ACA. all them thar well healthcare mandates came from their input.

What? The medical profession will make the rules for UHC? I don't really buy that. And I don't think you can support the claim. Politicians will make the laws. They might, or might not, consult with lobbyists from the medical profession. Obviously, there will be many, many other lobbyists vying for their favors.

The thing is, making health care a government concern makes it a political concern. It will turn every single election into a referendum on health care. Every single vote could decide whether grandma lives or dies. Our politics are stressed to the breaking point as it is. We don't need more issues to fight about.

the mandates already covered in the ACA were implemented with the medical profession's input. i didn't say the 'rules' were written by them. why do you think the house flipped in 2018? the #1 reason, was healthcare. the voters' have spoken.

Heh.. sure they have. So, what did they say?

you want big healthcorp to be back in the driver's seat?]

They're still in the drivers seat. They want to partner up with government so they have even more control. Go team!

the (D) reps who ran for 2018, ran on healthcare. people showed up in droves for townhalls. one of the most important aspects was the that the possibility that the higher cost penalty/ no coverage penalty for a pre existing condition coverage that was eliminated under the ACA might be eliminated. jeez - what bubble have you been living in that you have no clue?

townhall meeting healthcare 2018 republicans - Google Search

big corp already is teamed up with government. they fought tooth & nail, spending millions daily on fighting the public option, because they knew they can't compete with that. LOL! so much for that 'free market capitalistic' society we have huh? but they decided to team up when they were ensured to get subsidies for the 'high risk corridor'... getting cash to take on the sickest of the sick. damn - do some homework or stay poorly educated like trump wants you to stay.

 

[playtime]

lol. sorry - i was gonna try to answer then i thought i left the thread, but musta hit the reply button. i guess i'll give it a shot. UHC is that basic well being healthcare is automatically covered without cost & other healthcare is as well, no premiums, no copays, co-ins etc. everything is 'covered' thru taxes.

even serious expensive diseases?....

would you truly want someone asking you that if you were diagnosed with one? yo think people should go completely bankrupt & have their home foreclosed cause they had cancer or something just as bad?

you did not answer my question did you?...try again....

i answered it perfectly fine. healthcare is healthcare, whether it's from a disease or an accident. people who need healthcare shouldn't lose their life savings or die because they can't afford insurance.

well then my question from long ago comes back....will universal healthcare cover the serious expensive things or will they be selective like ins now?....[/QUOTE]

you want a pencil pusher to decide?

 

[playtime]

you did not answer my question did you?...try again....

i answered it perfectly fine. healthcare is healthcare, whether it's from a disease or an accident. people who need healthcare shouldn't lose their life savings or die because they can't afford insurance.

First off, people are not dying because they don't have insurance. I know people who had cancer, and were treated. In fact, I myself went to the hospital without insurance, and they treated me just fine.

As for losing money.... why? Why do you expect other people to serve you for free? Should I be able to demand you serve me, without paying you? What are you advocating here, slavery?

You think losing 50% of your entire income, won't harm your "life savings"? Heck you are likely not have any savings at all, given your plan to tax all our money away to pay for "free" health are.

How people pay for what services and goods they get?

& i know people who have died because they didn't have the cash to pay for the treatment they needed - but were only given medical help to make them 'comfortable' while they slowly died.

you got healthcare because no hospital can legally turn you away. you think they absorbed that cost outa the goodness of their hearts? people WITH insurance paid for it thru higher premiums. which meant people like ME.

i no problems paying higher taxes if it meant basic healthcare was covered 100% lol... no copays, no co insurance, no premiums... people already pay 1000s of dollars every year for outa pocket costs & still get denied. because bighealthcorp profits are in the stratosphere.

So you said they were left to die, and the hospital refused treatment.... then you turn around and said a hospital can't legally refuse to treat someone.

Those are mutually exclusive claims. One has to be a lie. Again, I knew a guy who got cancer, and had no insurance. He went to the hospital, and he got chemo.

you think they absorbed that cost outa the goodness of their hearts?

What the crap are you talking about? They didn't 'absorb' anything. I got a bill. I paid the bill.

no problems paying higher taxes if it meant basic healthcare was covered 100% lol... no copays, no co insurance, no premiums

Yes, you won't have premiums. But you are going to pay more money in taxes, than you are paying now in premiums. Guaranteed.

You realize that in most of Europe, and elsewhere that has government run health care, they all have almost double the taxes we do?

Nearly double. That means at least a 20% increase in taxes, at nearly all income levels. $50,000 = $10,000 in additional taxes.

Do you know anyone anywhere, that is paying insurance premiums of $10,000 per year? No you do not.

My insurance right now, is $100 a month.

Further, I know of no system in the world, that has absolutely no co-pays. UK has co-pays. France has co-pays. Everyone has co-pays.

So the idea, that you are going to pay taxes, and never have any other health care bills... not happening. All the countries that tried that, end up having to put in place fees-at-use to prevent people just non-stop going to the doctor, because they are lonely. They had that in France, and old people were going to the doctor, because they were lonely and wanted to talk. You have to have co-pays. Unavoidable.

Lastly, in all those countries... almost every single one, they have pay-for-service health care on top of their expensive tax funded health care system.

In Germany, most of the public has private insurance, because like all gov-care systems, it sucks. So they have premiums ANYWAY.... The only differences there is, if you don't have insurance, and you go to private hospital, they turn you away. Go die waiting for a public hospital. No cash, no service.

So everything you said.... is still true in all those socialized health care systems around the world. They still have premiums, still have co-pays, AND they lose 1/4 more of their income in taxes to pay for it.

So you said they were left to die, and the hospital refused treatment.... then you turn around and said a hospital can't legally refuse to treat someone.

no i didn't. i said they were given comfort care. that's different than aggressively treating with the aim to eliminate the disease.

Those are mutually exclusive claims. One has to be a lie. Again, I knew a guy who got cancer, and had no insurance. He went to the hospital, and he got chemo.

that's good. who paid for it? people who have insurance. was that chemo actually do the job & eradicated the disease? no surgery?

you think they absorbed that cost outa the goodness of their hearts?

What the crap are you talking about? They didn't 'absorb' anything. I got a bill. I paid the bill.

i thought i read that you said you didn't have insurance.

no problems paying higher taxes if it meant basic healthcare was covered 100% lol... no copays, no co insurance, no premiums

Yes, you won't have premiums. But you are going to pay more money in taxes, than you are paying now in premiums. Guaranteed.

yep. now add up the cost of everything you pay for outa pocket - don't ferget the deductibles too & weigh one against the other. there are policies out there where the fucking deductables are thousands upon thousands of dollars.

You realize that in most of Europe, and elsewhere that has government run health care, they all have almost double the taxes we do?

yep. i'd rather pay $10 a gallon of gas if it meant i never had to fight w/ an insurance company over a covered expense.

Nearly double. That means at least a 20% increase in taxes, at nearly all income levels. $50,000 = $10,000 in additional taxes.

people pay that now in non covered expenses & deductables.

Do you know anyone anywhere, that is paying insurance premiums of $10,000 per year? No you do not.

LOL. try looking into it. individual health coverage - if it's actual GOOD insurance sure can cost that much.

https://www.debt.org/medical/health-insurance-premiums/

https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/re...w-much-does-individual-health-insurance-cost/

Comparing Exchange Plans: Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum - Medicoverage.com

My insurance right now, is $100 a month.

that's nice. how much does it actually cover? when my kid (at the time he was over 22 & the ACA wasn't in effect, so he was off our insurance) was going to school part time, needed insurance got a plan for $100. it was all he could afford... the fucking thing had a $25K annual cap, $50K lifetime cap, & when he went for a flu shot - it wasn't covered. that's why it was so cheap... BTW... those things were eliminated under the ACA.

no caps on coverage & a flu shot is covered under the well being visit category... all that & the pre existing condition clause will be too if donny gets his way. so, you still think a mammogram now is more expensive than a stage 4 cancer? lol, how foolish.

Further, I know of no system in the world, that has absolutely no co-pays. UK has co-pays. France has co-pays. Everyone has co-pays.

So the idea, that you are going to pay taxes, and never have any other health care bills... not happening. All the countries that tried that, end up having to put in place fees-at-use to prevent people just non-stop going to the doctor, because they are lonely. They had that in France, and old people were going to the doctor, because they were lonely and wanted to talk. You have to have co-pays. Unavoidable.

ok, let's say that is true. now tell me how many of them went bankrupt? lost their life savings? lost their home due to any medical bills? those countries also have supplimental policies which are fine & dandy. but if you can't afford to get one - at least they are covered for the .... now read slowly....

well being healthcare.

Lastly, in all those countries... almost every single one, they have pay-for-service health care on top of their expensive tax funded health care system.

In Germany, most of the public has private insurance, because like all gov-care systems, it sucks. So they have premiums ANYWAY.... The only differences there is, if you don't have insurance, and you go to private hospital, they turn you away. Go die waiting for a public hospital. No cash, no service.

So everything you said.... is still true in all those socialized health care systems around the world. They still have premiums, still have co-pays, AND they lose 1/4 more of their income in taxes to pay for it.

uh-huh.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

How does the quality of the U.S. healthcare system compare to other countries? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker

Ranking Best Health Care Systems in the World by Country

World Health Organization (WHO) Ranking of the World’s 100 Best Health Systems
“This (2010) report examines and compares aspects of health systems around the world. It provides conceptual insights into the complex factors that explain how health systems perform and offers practical advice on how to assess performance and achieve improvements with available resources.”

1 France
2 Italian HealthCare System
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain Healthcare
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japanese Healthcare
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 UK Healthcare System
19 Irish Healthcare
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 German Healthcare
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada Healthcare
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica Health
37 US HealthCare
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland 51 Dominican Republic
52 Tunisia
53 Jamaica
54 Venezuela
55 Albania
56 Seychelles
57 Paraguay
58 South Korea
59 Senegal
60 Philippines
61 Mexico Healthcare
62 Slovakia
63 Egypt
64 Kazakhstan
65 Uruguay
66 Hungary
67 Trinidad and Tobago
68 Saint Lucia
69 Belize
70 Turkey
71 Nicaragua
72 Belarus
73 Lithuania
74 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
75 Argentina
76 Sri Lanka
77 Estonia
78 Guatemala
79 Ukraine
80 Solomon Islands
81 Algeria
82 Palau
83 Jordan
84 Mauritius
85 Grenada
86 Antigua and Barbuda
87 Libya
88 Bangladesh
89 Macedonia
90 Bosnia-Herzegovina
91 Lebanon
92 Indonesia
93 Iran
94 Bahamas
95 Panama
96 Fiji
97 Benin
98 Nauru
99 Romania
100 Saint Kitts and Nevis
Source: Health systems financing: the path to universal coverage

 

[dblack]

big corp already is teamed up with government. they fought tooth & nail, spending millions daily on fighting the public option, because they knew they can't compete with that. LOL! so much for that 'free market capitalistic' society we have huh? but they decided to team up when they were ensured to get subsidies for the 'high risk corridor'... getting cash to take on the sickest of the sick. damn - do some homework or stay poorly educated like trump wants you to stay.

I've been studying this stuff since the insurance lobby started pushing for the mandatory health insurance bullshit in the first place. Back before Romney signed it into law in Massachusetts. It's been a corporatist scam since the beginning. The insurance industry has been in bed with government so long that now they're seeking a permanent rent-seeking position - as the contractors for "Welfare for All". Your socialist fantasies aren't on the docket. What you're cheering for is a further melding of corporate and government power. If you get your way, we'll no longer be able to say "no" to the insurance companies. They'll get your money directly from the government and you'll have no say in the matter. Er, well, I guess you get to vote once every four years. Yippee.

 

[Andylusion]

you did not answer my question did you?...try again....

i answered it perfectly fine. healthcare is healthcare, whether it's from a disease or an accident. people who need healthcare shouldn't lose their life savings or die because they can't afford insurance.

First off, people are not dying because they don't have insurance. I know people who had cancer, and were treated. In fact, I myself went to the hospital without insurance, and they treated me just fine.

As for losing money.... why? Why do you expect other people to serve you for free? Should I be able to demand you serve me, without paying you? What are you advocating here, slavery?

You think losing 50% of your entire income, won't harm your "life savings"? Heck you are likely not have any savings at all, given your plan to tax all our money away to pay for "free" health are.

How people pay for what services and goods they get?

& i know people who have died because they didn't have the cash to pay for the treatment they needed - but were only given medical help to make them 'comfortable' while they slowly died.

you got healthcare because no hospital can legally turn you away. you think they absorbed that cost outa the goodness of their hearts? people WITH insurance paid for it thru higher premiums. which meant people like ME.

i no problems paying higher taxes if it meant basic healthcare was covered 100% lol... no copays, no co insurance, no premiums... people already pay 1000s of dollars every year for outa pocket costs & still get denied. because bighealthcorp profits are in the stratosphere.

So you said they were left to die, and the hospital refused treatment.... then you turn around and said a hospital can't legally refuse to treat someone.

Those are mutually exclusive claims. One has to be a lie. Again, I knew a guy who got cancer, and had no insurance. He went to the hospital, and he got chemo.

you think they absorbed that cost outa the goodness of their hearts?

What the crap are you talking about? They didn't 'absorb' anything. I got a bill. I paid the bill.

no problems paying higher taxes if it meant basic healthcare was covered 100% lol... no copays, no co insurance, no premiums

Yes, you won't have premiums. But you are going to pay more money in taxes, than you are paying now in premiums. Guaranteed.

You realize that in most of Europe, and elsewhere that has government run health care, they all have almost double the taxes we do?

Nearly double. That means at least a 20% increase in taxes, at nearly all income levels. $50,000 = $10,000 in additional taxes.

Do you know anyone anywhere, that is paying insurance premiums of $10,000 per year? No you do not.

My insurance right now, is $100 a month.

Further, I know of no system in the world, that has absolutely no co-pays. UK has co-pays. France has co-pays. Everyone has co-pays.

So the idea, that you are going to pay taxes, and never have any other health care bills... not happening. All the countries that tried that, end up having to put in place fees-at-use to prevent people just non-stop going to the doctor, because they are lonely. They had that in France, and old people were going to the doctor, because they were lonely and wanted to talk. You have to have co-pays. Unavoidable.

Lastly, in all those countries... almost every single one, they have pay-for-service health care on top of their expensive tax funded health care system.

In Germany, most of the public has private insurance, because like all gov-care systems, it sucks. So they have premiums ANYWAY.... The only differences there is, if you don't have insurance, and you go to private hospital, they turn you away. Go die waiting for a public hospital. No cash, no service.

So everything you said.... is still true in all those socialized health care systems around the world. They still have premiums, still have co-pays, AND they lose 1/4 more of their income in taxes to pay for it.

So you said they were left to die, and the hospital refused treatment.... then you turn around and said a hospital can't legally refuse to treat someone.

no i didn't. i said they were given comfort care. that's different than aggressively treating with the aim to eliminate the disease.

Those are mutually exclusive claims. One has to be a lie. Again, I knew a guy who got cancer, and had no insurance. He went to the hospital, and he got chemo.

that's good. who paid for it? people who have insurance. was that chemo actually do the job & eradicated the disease? no surgery?

you think they absorbed that cost outa the goodness of their hearts?

What the crap are you talking about? They didn't 'absorb' anything. I got a bill. I paid the bill.

i thought i read that you said you didn't have insurance.

no problems paying higher taxes if it meant basic healthcare was covered 100% lol... no copays, no co insurance, no premiums

Yes, you won't have premiums. But you are going to pay more money in taxes, than you are paying now in premiums. Guaranteed.

yep. now add up the cost of everything you pay for outa pocket - don't ferget the deductibles too & weigh one against the other. there are policies out there where the fucking deductables are thousands upon thousands of dollars.

You realize that in most of Europe, and elsewhere that has government run health care, they all have almost double the taxes we do?

yep. i'd rather pay $10 a gallon of gas if it meant i never had to fight w/ an insurance company over a covered expense.

Nearly double. That means at least a 20% increase in taxes, at nearly all income levels. $50,000 = $10,000 in additional taxes.

people pay that now in non covered expenses & deductables.

Do you know anyone anywhere, that is paying insurance premiums of $10,000 per year? No you do not.

LOL. try looking into it. individual health coverage - if it's actual GOOD insurance sure can cost that much.

https://www.debt.org/medical/health-insurance-premiums/

https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/re...w-much-does-individual-health-insurance-cost/

Comparing Exchange Plans: Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum - Medicoverage.com

My insurance right now, is $100 a month.

that's nice. how much does it actually cover? when my kid (at the time he was over 22 & the ACA wasn't in effect, so he was off our insurance) was going to school part time, needed insurance got a plan for $100. it was all he could afford... the fucking thing had a $25K annual cap, $50K lifetime cap, & when he went for a flu shot - it wasn't covered. that's why it was so cheap... BTW... those things were eliminated under the ACA.

no caps on coverage & a flu shot is covered under the well being visit category... all that & the pre existing condition clause will be too if donny gets his way. so, you still think a mammogram now is more expensive than a stage 4 cancer? lol, how foolish.

Further, I know of no system in the world, that has absolutely no co-pays. UK has co-pays. France has co-pays. Everyone has co-pays.

So the idea, that you are going to pay taxes, and never have any other health care bills... not happening. All the countries that tried that, end up having to put in place fees-at-use to prevent people just non-stop going to the doctor, because they are lonely. They had that in France, and old people were going to the doctor, because they were lonely and wanted to talk. You have to have co-pays. Unavoidable.

ok, let's say that is true. now tell me how many of them went bankrupt? lost their life savings? lost their home due to any medical bills? those countries also have supplimental policies which are fine & dandy. but if you can't afford to get one - at least they are covered for the .... now read slowly....

well being healthcare.

Lastly, in all those countries... almost every single one, they have pay-for-service health care on top of their expensive tax funded health care system.

In Germany, most of the public has private insurance, because like all gov-care systems, it sucks. So they have premiums ANYWAY.... The only differences there is, if you don't have insurance, and you go to private hospital, they turn you away. Go die waiting for a public hospital. No cash, no service.

So everything you said.... is still true in all those socialized health care systems around the world. They still have premiums, still have co-pays, AND they lose 1/4 more of their income in taxes to pay for it.

uh-huh.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

How does the quality of the U.S. healthcare system compare to other countries? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker

Ranking Best Health Care Systems in the World by Country

World Health Organization (WHO) Ranking of the World’s 100 Best Health Systems
“This (2010) report examines and compares aspects of health systems around the world. It provides conceptual insights into the complex factors that explain how health systems perform and offers practical advice on how to assess performance and achieve improvements with available resources.”

1 France
2 Italian HealthCare System
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain Healthcare
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japanese Healthcare
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 UK Healthcare System
19 Irish Healthcare
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 German Healthcare
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada Healthcare
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica Health
37 US HealthCare
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland 51 Dominican Republic
52 Tunisia
53 Jamaica
54 Venezuela
55 Albania
56 Seychelles
57 Paraguay
58 South Korea
59 Senegal
60 Philippines
61 Mexico Healthcare
62 Slovakia
63 Egypt
64 Kazakhstan
65 Uruguay
66 Hungary
67 Trinidad and Tobago
68 Saint Lucia
69 Belize
70 Turkey
71 Nicaragua
72 Belarus
73 Lithuania
74 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
75 Argentina
76 Sri Lanka
77 Estonia
78 Guatemala
79 Ukraine
80 Solomon Islands
81 Algeria
82 Palau
83 Jordan
84 Mauritius
85 Grenada
86 Antigua and Barbuda
87 Libya
88 Bangladesh
89 Macedonia
90 Bosnia-Herzegovina
91 Lebanon
92 Indonesia
93 Iran
94 Bahamas
95 Panama
96 Fiji
97 Benin
98 Nauru
99 Romania
100 Saint Kitts and Nevis
Source: Health systems financing: the path to universal coverage

no i didn't. i said they were given comfort care. that's different than aggressively treating with the aim to eliminate the disease.

And I'm saying not true. I went to the hospital, and they treated me. I know others that went, and were given chemo. You are just flat out wrong. Period.

i thought i read that you said you didn't have insurance.

That is correct. How is this confusing to you? Not having insurance, doesn't mean you don't get treated, or that the hospital eats the cost.

They send you a bill. You pay the bill.

that's nice. how much does it actually cover? when my kid (at the time he was over 22 & the ACA wasn't in effect, so he was off our insurance) was going to school part time, needed insurance got a plan for $100. it was all he could afford... the fucking thing had a $25K annual cap, $50K lifetime cap, & when he went for a flu shot - it wasn't covered. that's why it was so cheap... BTW... those things were eliminated under the ACA.

Then I'd have to ask where you live. In 2006, I had an insurance policy that was $67 a month. Had a Million dollar cap, $3,000 deductible, and covered office visits, and 20/80 on prescriptions. Now that was Ohio, and we don't have crazy left-wing policies like New York and LA, so our insurance rates are much cheaper than those places.

As for flu shot not being covered.... it's $25. You can't cover that yourself? Really? Btw, I've never had a flu shot in my life, and I've only had the flu real bad once.

World Health Organization (WHO) Ranking of the World’s 100 Best Health Systems

The WHO report was crap. I have the report on my computer, and I've read it cover to cover.

The WHO report, covered how socialized the care system was. And virtually did not cover at all, the quality of the care.

Now if you want, I can go through it page by page. But I'll just post the short version here.

The WHO report judged health care based on how 'equal' it was.

To put it bluntly... if I offered treatment to people for zero cost, completely equal, where I just packed everyone into a warehouse, on bunks, and a wet wipe for each patient... even if 90% died because treatment was bad... doesn't matter. As long as it is 'equal' that's fair, and fair is good. Thus my warehouse of equal healthcare, would score higher on the WHO report, than the US unequal treatment where 90% live.

If you doubt that, just look at number 39. Cuba is 39th, just below the US. That is not proof the US healthcare sucks. That's proof the WHO report sucks, because Cubans can't even get Aspirin.

Cuba's healthcare system is like George Orwell's "Animal Farm." All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. The result is a two-tiered system where the haves (foreign guests and Cuban insiders like Castro and his cronies) experience fine care and the have-nots (everyone else) have trouble finding aspirin.

Think the Cuban healthcare system is ideal? No cigar. Not even close.
​

The fact Cuba is even on the list by the WHO, proves the list and report, is completely discredited.