United we stand, Divided we fall?!?!?

[goldcatt]

Get rid of all the political pundits in the media and our nation would do more to pull together.

Absolutely.

Won't happen now, they're too entrenched. But the propensity to live in an echo chamber is a huge part of the problem.

I have an honest question, how many of the straw men the usual suspects build do they know are false, and how many do they honestly think are true because they have no idea what the other side actually thinks?

 

[Murf76]

There are two major design flaws in the logic of you, and anyone else who uses "The U.S. Constitution!" as a cheap soundbyte.

First of all, you automatically assume the framers of the constitution would agree with you. Not so. The design and implementation of the constitution was a train wreck; Nobody was 100% pleased with it when they signed. There were federalists and non-federalists in those days as well. Most of the framers were highly educated, highly intelligent people. They provided the constitution in a framework that allows for the constitution to be changed as the country evolved. I think if they were all here now, and saw the United States in a size, population, and economy they never could have imagined -- Most would side with the Dems. It doesn't take a genius to see that Laissez faire politics can and will (and already did) bring this country to its knees.

Second, you assume that all government rights and responsibilities flow from the Constitution. Not so. Just because something is not mentioned by name in the Constitution does not make it illegal. General welfare covers quite a bit. Congress has the ability to grant powers to the government as well.

In short, your interpretation of the constitution is not automatically correct just because you make the statement. Even if it were, We the People trump the constitution. We the People also have the means to amend the constitution, as we have done 27 times.

How about this... 28th Amendment.. "Oh yeah, and we can do healthcare too." If that amendment passed, would you stfu then?

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America."
-- James Madison

Hmmmmm... who's word should we take on the matter? ...Yours? Barack Obama's? Nancy Pelosi's? Or JAMES MADISON'S?

While it's true that there was much debate and much discussion, our framers could have come up with any number of different methods of governance. They didn't. They decided upon a Republic based on federalism and limits on central government.

Your "interpretation" argument is exactly the problem. It's the twisting and turning of our contract with government that CAUSES discord. The thing is written in plain English. It means what it means, and we all know it. Paying some shmuck to "interpret" another meaning doesn't fool us. That's why we're unable to resolve differences. There's no final word on the matter.

Congress has no power that's not enumerated by the Constitution. You want a healthcare amendment?... then have THAT discussion. An end-around the American people will never be accepted.

 

[Care4all]

The 2000 election was settled in the Supreme Court. Yes, it was. and for eight fucking years you dumb libtards used it as a divisive weapon..

No. We used the lies about WMDs and 'the last throes of the insurgency' and 'we will be welcomed as liberators' and Iraqi oil revenues will pay for the war, and wanted bin Laden dead or alive as issues.

In other words, the very words and deeds of the idiot Bush and his regime.

And now, those who carried water for him and defended his stupidity at every turn are telling us they have the answers. Even after they fouled things up to this point.

Good luck with your spinning! Want some Dramamine?

nope, don't need to drammamine, you used the 2000 election like a political club,, marching in the streets throwing eggs, protesting in short acting like libtards..

you hired the thugs don't you remember? Paid and brought them to Miami to intimidate those counting the votes?

 

[MajikMyst]

Among all the other crap I have to say the OP raises a good point. What comes first, the fact that we're all Americans and in it together, or the disagreements over where we should be going?

There are plenty of nasty nutters on both sides. But I'd love to think most people are rational and able to set all the left/right bullshit aside when it counts like most of us did after 9/11.

So what do you call it when virtually every Democrat wants to negate the Constitution by voting for ObamaCare. Must mean that the entire Dem Party is made almost exclusively of "nasty nutters"

You have yet to show that healthcare reform is against the constitution..

But thanks for proving what is wrong with this nation.. It isn't the Dems..

 

[MajikMyst]

Among all the other crap I have to say the OP raises a good point. What comes first, the fact that we're all Americans and in it together, or the disagreements over where we should be going?

There are plenty of nasty nutters on both sides. But I'd love to think most people are rational and able to set all the left/right bullshit aside when it counts like most of us did after 9/11.

I agree the OP makes a couple of good points but look at it again. Now imagine it was written from a right wing perspective. What would your response be then?

It was written from an american prospective.. Can you for once lay your party aside and be an american??

Or is that against the right wing policy somewhere?

 

[MajikMyst]

This is a concept that I learned when I was itty and bitty.. It also happens to be a concept in our pledge of alligence..

So are we? Are we one nation??

I have been on these boards a couple of months now and I can't say that I see that we are..

Conservatives are hell bent on doing everything they can to hate and stop liberals from doing anything.. There is no sense of team spirit what so ever.. To be fair, some liberals aren't much better..

Gay marriage?? Are not homosexuals americans?? Do they not deserve the same rights and privileges as the rest of us.. They do not have the same rights and privileges as straight people do.. Straight people can marry who they are in love with.. Homosexuals can't.. There is a difference..

Abortion? The bottom line here is that it is currently legal.. Roe V. Wade made it legal and that is the current law of the land.. So to hold a current healthcare bill back because of funding for abortion is stupid.. It is the law, and that is the way it is..

Obama?? What has this person done to any of you to deserve your hatred and disrespect? He is your president and that is the simple truth.. It is your duty as an american to do anything you can to help him and this government to succeed.. If our government succeeds, then we succeed.. Lower taxes isn't the solution for everything.. That isn't to say that raising them is either.. But our government can't run on air.. It needs funding..

Religion is a major issue inour nation.. As the line on most issues can be drawn right down religious lines..

The facts of the matter are this.. This nation was never created with the intent of being a christian nation.. Most of our founding fathers were not christian.. They came here looking for religious freedom.. The very first amendment gives all of us that freedom.. That amendment does something else as well.. It seperates church and state.. A government simply can't govern a people of many religions unless the government is free from all religions..

We are all americans..

Some of us are conservative and some are liberals..

Some of us are christian and some of us are not..

But we are all americans.. It is time we start acting like it..

What say you?

Yes you are correct, it is all because of Conservatives. All of Americas ills are a result of Conservative mantra while the Liberal/Progressives are responsible for everything good in America and the world!

Fucking idiot.

Please show me where I am wrong?? I can't help it if the truth hurts!!

Calling me names doesn't make you right and me wrong.. Put up or shut up!!

Social security was put up by democrats..

Medicare to take care of our elderly was put up by democrats..

I could go on and on..

What has republicans done?? Other than rewrite history about a few things and then attempt to pat themselves on the back for it..

So what has republicans done in the last 50 or 60 years?? Can you think of anything and prove it??

 

[MajikMyst]

This is a concept that I learned when I was itty and bitty.. It also happens to be a concept in our pledge of alligence..

So are we? Are we one nation??

I have been on these boards a couple of months now and I can't say that I see that we are..

Conservatives are hell bent on doing everything they can to hate and stop liberals from doing anything.. There is no sense of team spirit what so ever.. To be fair, some liberals aren't much better..

Team spirit? Are you kidding? Why would Conservatives assist Progressives who are attempting to install a socialist system?
Congress isn't a Kindergarten class where everyone 'takes turns'. Legislation is supposed to be hard. Fettering citizens with new laws should be a serious business featuring vigorous debate and genuine consensus.

Gay marriage?? Are not homosexuals americans?? Do they not deserve the same rights and privileges as the rest of us.. They do not have the same rights and privileges as straight people do.. Straight people can marry who they are in love with.. Homosexuals can't.. There is a difference..

Abortion? The bottom line here is that it is currently legal.. Roe V. Wade made it legal and that is the current law of the land.. So to hold a current healthcare bill back because of funding for abortion is stupid.. It is the law, and that is the way it is..

These are 10th Amendment issues. You take the referee off the field when the U.S. Constitution is abused. What happens next is division and tumult. And THAT is the crux of all the irreconcilable differences we have now. It is why there can be no agreement. The rulebook has been tossed out. There is no final arbiter of what is right and what is wrong. And without that Higher Authority which resolves differences in opinion, the only arbiter left is 'right of might'.

Social issues and social spending are supposed to fall under the providence of the States. And twisting our Constitution like a taffy pull at the county fair was fun and games for both parties... until now, when the bottom has dropped out. It was the glue which bound us together.



No. It's not the "simple truth". Obama is YOUR president, not mine, not in any way that means anything. And that's was HIS decision. It was HIS job to set the tone of bipartisanship. He's not a legislator anymore. The Executive Branch has a different function, one that doesn't tolerate partisanship well, one that demands a certain level of impartiality.

Obama has selected partisanship from the first. He chose to represent you and not me. So... now, he lives with his choice. It's his own "hatred and disrespect", reflected back to him, that he's experiencing.



It's got funding. But it's so wasteful and so corrupt that the funding is never enough. It always want more. Right this moment, our Congress is spending money hand over fist that we don't have, that's damaging our financial standing in the world. When do we draw the line? When do we say enough is enough?
This Congress shouldn't get one more thin dime until they prove they can be responsible with their spending and stop using OUR MONEY to promote their own political careers.

Religion is a major issue inour nation.. As the line on most issues can be drawn right down religious lines..

The facts of the matter are this.. This nation was never created with the intent of being a christian nation.. Most of our founding fathers were not christian.. They came here looking for religious freedom.. The very first amendment gives all of us that freedom.. That amendment does something else as well.. It seperates church and state.. A government simply can't govern a people of many religions unless the government is free from all religions..

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." What that means is that the government can't interfere with religion. It doesn't mean that religion can't interfere with government. IOW, the government can't tell you what religion to practice or limit your ability to practice it. That's all it says.

The "wall of separation between the church and the state" was a phrase coined by Jefferson in 1802 as he assured a Baptist congregation that the government couldn't bother them.
Separation Of Church And State

We are all americans..

Some of us are conservative and some are liberals..

Some of us are christian and some of us are not..

But we are all americans.. It is time we start acting like it..

What say you?

Why should Americans give a rat's ass about France? You want this country to be France? You want a centralized socialist system in place of the federalism and constitutionally guaranteed liberty we were founded upon? Then don't be all shocked and dismayed that there's division in this country in the form of Americans who don't want to be Frenchmen.

The referee is off the field. The U.S. Constitution was the only glue which bound us together. Without it, there is NO UNITY, nothing we can agree upon that is above the opinion and will of either of us.

Prove that we are trying to install a socialist system?? Your entire post is based on misinfomation and biased opinions..

Prove a single word of it..

I'll get back to you when you do..

 

[MajikMyst]

Among all the other crap I have to say the OP raises a good point. What comes first, the fact that we're all Americans and in it together, or the disagreements over where we should be going?

There are plenty of nasty nutters on both sides. But I'd love to think most people are rational and able to set all the left/right bullshit aside when it counts like most of us did after 9/11.

Ya we were altogether until the libs voted for war and then used it to political crush George bush.

Nice rewrite of history there.. Bush wanted the war.. Nearly all if not all republicans voted for it and about half or less than half of the dems voted for it..

Look it up yourself.. You are wrong.. As usual..

Bush lied to the people of this nation..

First it was about WMD, then it was about oil, when it was about terrorism.. When it reality it wasn't and never was about any of those things..

Where is Bin Laden by the way?? I see Bush failed in getting him 'Dead or Alive' like he promised..

Do you people believe all your lies or just to stupid to admit the truth?

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Lower taxes isn't the solution for everything.. That isn't to say that raising them is either.. But our government can't run on air.. It needs funding..

No shit.

STOP THE GODDAM WASTEFUL SPENDING

 

[MajikMyst]

The devil divides, as Christ said!

Who said "You reap what you sow"?

And so do you..

Keep that in mind..

 

[Nosmo King]

Lower taxes isn't the solution for everything.. That isn't to say that raising them is either.. But our government can't run on air.. It needs funding..

No shit.

STOP THE GODDAM WASTEFUL SPENDING

Isn't the Defense Department budget long over due for consideration as to what's wasteful and what's not?

 

[Nosmo King]

Get rid of all the political pundits in the media and our nation would do more to pull together.

As much as I'd like to agree, I favor freedom of speech over all else. The 'pundits' do what they do. Those without the intellectual curiosity to sift through the opinions of the 'pundits' are the real dividers of this country.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Lower taxes isn't the solution for everything.. That isn't to say that raising them is either.. But our government can't run on air.. It needs funding..

No shit.

STOP THE GODDAM WASTEFUL SPENDING

Isn't the Defense Department budget long over due for consideration as to what's wasteful and what's not?

As soon as you shitcan the Obamacare Bill we can talk about defense spending. Fair enough?

 

[MajikMyst]

Lower taxes isn't the solution for everything.. That isn't to say that raising them is either.. But our government can't run on air.. It needs funding..

No shit.

STOP THE GODDAM WASTEFUL SPENDING

Agreed.. So let's put an end to wasteful spending and not cut taxes??

Both parties are horrible at this one..

So are we united on this issue?

 

[MajikMyst]

No shit.

STOP THE GODDAM WASTEFUL SPENDING

Isn't the Defense Department budget long over due for consideration as to what's wasteful and what's not?

As soon as you shitcan the Obamacare Bill we can talk about defense spending. Fair enough?

Ummm.. Nope.. We need healthcare reform.. Most of america want it.. Healthcare should not be a for profit industry..

Healthcare is a right of all americans is it not??

 

[Ringel05]

Isn't the Defense Department budget long over due for consideration as to what's wasteful and what's not?

As soon as you shitcan the Obamacare Bill we can talk about defense spending. Fair enough?

Ummm.. Nope.. We need healthcare reform.. Most of america want it.. Healthcare should not be a for profit industry..

Healthcare is a right of all americans is it not??

Where is it written that healthcare is a right?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Isn't the Defense Department budget long over due for consideration as to what's wasteful and what's not?

As soon as you shitcan the Obamacare Bill we can talk about defense spending. Fair enough?

Ummm.. Nope.. We need healthcare reform.. Most of america want it.. Healthcare should not be a for profit industry..

Healthcare is a right of all americans is it not??

This is why I reiterate: Fuck you, we're not together

 

[Ringel05]

Among all the other crap I have to say the OP raises a good point. What comes first, the fact that we're all Americans and in it together, or the disagreements over where we should be going?

There are plenty of nasty nutters on both sides. But I'd love to think most people are rational and able to set all the left/right bullshit aside when it counts like most of us did after 9/11.

I agree the OP makes a couple of good points but look at it again. Now imagine it was written from a right wing perspective. What would your response be then?

It was written from an american prospective.. Can you for once lay your party aside and be an american??

Or is that against the right wing policy somewhere?

Fail. Wanna go for two out of three?

Besides I was obviously correct with my first response. No one is an American unless they agree with you. Ummmmmm.................

 

[Murf76]

Prove that we are trying to install a socialist system?? Your entire post is based on misinfomation and biased opinions..

Prove a single word of it..

I'll get back to you when you do..

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That's just a taste. We all know there are alot more... particularly when we start looking at Obama and his czars. It's disingenuous blather to pretend like the Democrats have not adopted a collectivist agenda which they intend to impose on America any way they can.

 

[Care4all]

I'm not too far behind you....

What we once had was a United states of America......

Where we are going is the desolving of such, one piece at a time.

I do not remember people HATING EACH OTHER, DESPISING EACH OTHER for simple political differences....maybe you do? I remember civil discourse.

I am a Democrat, my husband is a Republican...our families got along.....my husband and I get along and would never let political differences get in the WAY of real life.

Civil discourse? After this election I remember on this very board. statements such as.. We won, you lost, sit down and shut the fuck up, let the grown ups run things, you old white republican christians got no power, we don't give a shit what you think, we don't need you.. and bla bla bla.. yes, like I'm gonna stand shoulder to shoulder with that kind of bullshit. I think not. and we won't even go into the nasty way you libtards treated the Palin family.. yep, your asses will reap what you have sowen.

most liberals on this board DID NOT do that....just a few, like rightwinger, rdean, maybe robert....if memory serves me.