United States and Israel Partners in War Crimes

[Gunny]

I'm still waiting for you to refute the facts I have presented so far.



There have been many whistleblowers that have come forward and had the PATRIOT act(s) provisions used to gag them from speaking publically. Refute some of the facts I have presented so far in a logical manner fact for fact instead of the usual strawmen and regurgitated cliches and I'll provide you a list of them.

Who owns and controls Hollywood and the MSM btw?

Is there something I'm not saying in simple, 1st grade English? Listen close: I cannot refute fact if, in fact, no facts have been presented to refute.

That isn't a strawman argument .... it's calling a spade a spade.

 

[pegwinn]

There have been many whistleblowers that have come forward and had the PATRIOT act(s) provisions used to gag them from speaking publically. Refute some of the facts I have presented so far in a logical manner fact for fact instead of the usual strawmen and regurgitated cliches and I'll provide you a list of them. Can you source the many whistleblowers please?
Who owns and controls Hollywood and the MSM btw? I'm not sure, can you elaborate?

Other than the questions above.......

 

[Vastopol]

Is there something I'm not saying in simple, 1st grade English? Listen close: I cannot refute fact if, in fact, no facts have been presented to refute.

That isn't a strawman argument .... it's calling a spade a spade.

"A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm"
First neocon report calling for Iraq invasion. Delivered to Israel, 1996.

The 9 Iraq-War Planners Surrounding Bush
and their PNAC / IASPS backgrounds

A Short History of the Neocons' Push for War. Click Years for Details.

America Alone: The Neoconservatives and the Global Order

1992. Wolfowitz Starts Planning

And other assorted facts...

What Was Cheney's Mid-East Adviser Thinking?
Middle East "War:" How Did It Come to This?

by David Wurmser, Published originally in the Washington Times.
American Enterprise Institute, Jan. 1, 2001.
Our Jerusalem-dot-com, Jan. 29, 2001."Israel and the United States should adopt a coordinated strategy to regain the initiative and reverse their regionwide strategic retreat. They should broaden the conflict to strike fatally, not merely disarm, the centers of radicalism in the region—the regimes of Damascus, Baghdad, Tripoli, Tehran, and Gaza. That would reestablish the recognition that fighting with either the United States or Israel is suicidal."

Wurmser was moved into the State Dept., then became Cheney's Middle-East Advisor.

SOURCE

 

[Vastopol]

Tell me again how everything they (neocons/Israelis) were planning and talking about as far back as 1992 just sort of happened by sheer coincidence shortly after 9/11.

 

[Vastopol]

Can't be denial .... that only applies to the truth. Denying conspiracy theories would be called rational.

Yet you seem to readily accept the "official story" which in itself is nothing more than a "conspiracy theory" put forward by the government and MSM as truth. Strange.

 

[dilloduck]

Yet you seem to readily accept the "official story" which in itself is nothing more than a "conspiracy theory" put forward by the government and MSM as truth. Strange.

I'm not even sure the truth is even detectable anymore. Too many people are distorting it and too few people really want to know it.

 

[Vastopol]

At every stage, the covert aid and organisation provided by the US and British intelligence agencies were decisive, as they had been on many occasions before and since, all over the world. Yet for some reason, it is acceptable to say, ‘The CIA organised the overthrow of Prime Minister Mossadeq in Iran in 1953’, but not that it did it again in Belgrade in 2000 or Tbilisi in 2003. And in spite of the well-known subterfuge and deception practised, for instance, in the Iran-Contra scandal in the mid-1980s, people experience an enormous psychological reluctance to accept that the British and American governments knowingly lied us into war in 2002 and 2003. To be sure, some conspiracy theories may be outlandish or wrong. But it seems to me that anyone who refuses to make simple empirical deductions ought to have his head examined.

SOURCE

 

[Gunny]

Yet you seem to readily accept the "official story" which in itself is nothing more than a "conspiracy theory" put forward by the government and MSM as truth. Strange.

If I accept "the official story," it is coincidental to the fact that the facts and evidence support the "official story" and leave no reason for anyone other than a conspiracy nut to read more into it.

It is not up to me to disprove your assertions. It is up to you to prove them, with actual fact, not hearsay.

Anyone can make any assertion within the realm of their imagination then demand someone disprove it. It's called an intellectually dishonest stance with no basis in fact.

 

[Vastopol]

If I accept "the official story," it is coincidental to the fact that the facts and evidence support the "official story" and leave no reason for anyone other than a conspiracy nut to read more into it.

It is not up to me to disprove your assertions. It is up to you to prove them, with actual fact, not hearsay.

Anyone can make any assertion within the realm of their imagination then demand someone disprove it. It's called an intellectually dishonest stance with no basis in fact.

How true! So this is you're chance to prove your assertions that the "official story" is correct. Let's see all these facts and evidence you have in abundance!

For starters you might want to...,

Show us the names of the 19 highjackers on all the flight manifests. If they were truely there their names would be on them, right? Show us the undeniable proof the FBI has that connects Bin Laden to the plot in no uncertain terms.

C'mon man put all you're facts and evidence where your mouth is! After all...

It is not up to me to disprove your assertions. It is up to you to prove them, with actual fact, not hearsay.

Because, if you refuse to even try to prove you're assertions they just may be considered...

an intellectually dishonest stance with no basis in fact.

By now it should be a "cakewalk" for you to prove the government and mass media's "official" conspiracy theory. You've had over five years to compile all the facts and present you're evidence. Here's some info that might help you get the facts in order. And here is a whole archive of mainstream news articles and documents for you to review and gleen many more facts from. I mean, it is facts we are interested in and not hearsay...right?

So there you have it...prove away!

 

[Vastopol]

While you are compiling all the massive amounts of evidence and facts that you assert prove the government's "official" conspiracy theory is the correct one. The rest of us who still have questions will be watching a new video.

CLICK HERE.

This presentation by www.utah911truth.com covers all the areas of hard evidence refuting the official story inlcuding the tower collapses, air defenses and the history of al qaeda with meticulous citing and detail. It also goes a long way, without speculating, to answering the questions who would have had the capacity and motive carry out the attacks, and who has acted to suppress this information?

This is a basic video / audio / powerpoint presentation and while it is not as entertaining or 'sexy' as other 9/11 documentaries it is meticulous in its covering and citing of information.

 

[Gunny]

How true! So this is you're chance to prove your assertions that the "official story" is correct. Let's see all these facts and evidence you have in abundance!

For starters you might want to...,

Show us the names of the 19 highjackers on all the flight manifests. If they were truely there their names would be on them, right? Show us the undeniable proof the FBI has that connects Bin Laden to the plot in no uncertain terms.

C'mon man put all you're facts and evidence where your mouth is! After all...

Because, if you refuse to even try to prove you're assertions they just may be considered...

By now it should be a "cakewalk" for you to prove the government and mass media's "official" conspiracy theory. You've had over five years to compile all the facts and present you're evidence. Here's some info that might help you get the facts in order. And here is a whole archive of mainstream news articles and documents for you to review and gleen many more facts from. I mean, it is facts we are interested in and not hearsay...right?

So there you have it...prove away!

You're trying to play the wrong game with the wrong person. As I have mentioned elsewhere, playing "battling links" is for parrots who can't think for themselves, and there are always contradictory links available on the internet. Look at the shit you keep producing.

I don't know how much evidence you think you need when OBL came out and stated that he and AQ were behind 9/11. There is no real evidence to the contrary. Just a bunch of conspiratorial bullshit from you tinfoil hat wearers.

What I can suggest for you is that you hide in your basement with a large stock of foodstuffs and some weapons and wait for "them" to come get you. They ARE out there, y'know.

 

[Vastopol]

You're trying to play the wrong game with the wrong person. As I have mentioned elsewhere, playing "battling links" is for parrots who can't think for themselves, and there are always contradictory links available on the internet. Look at the shit you keep producing.

I don't know how much evidence you think you need when OBL came out and stated that he and AQ were behind 9/11. There is no real evidence to the contrary. Just a bunch of conspiratorial bullshit from you tinfoil hat wearers.

What I can suggest for you is that you hide in your basement with a large stock of foodstuffs and some weapons and wait for "them" to come get you. They ARE out there, y'know.

So in other words there are different sets of rules, one for you to play by and one for everyone else. I suppose it has to be that way because you know you have no credible evidence to support your wild conspiracy theory.

The Muckraker Report attempted to secure a reference to the U.S. government authenticating the Bin Laden “confession video”, to no avail. However, it is conclusive that the Bush Administration and U.S. Congress, along with the dead stream media, played the video as if it was authentic. So why doesn’t the FBI view the “confession video” as hard evidence? After all, if the FBI is investigating a crime such as drug trafficking, and it discovers a video of members of a drug cartel openly talking about a successful distribution operation in the United States, that video would be presented to a federal grand jury. The identified participants of the video would be indicted, and if captured, the video alone would serve as sufficient evidence to net a conviction in a federal court. So why is the Bin Laden “confession video” not carrying the same weight with the FBI?

SOURCE



Remember it was you who said...

It is not up to me to disprove your assertions. It is up to you to prove them, with actual fact, not hearsay.

I then asked you to prove your own assertions, with actual facts. (or to take your own advice, practice what you preach...etc.)

To which you come back offering no actual facts but just more huffing and puffing, and trying to act like a tough guy, that's quite humorous imho. It clearly shows how absurd trying to defend your case really is. You got nothing but slurs, insults and a host of really worn out cliches (parroting) to counter all the actual facts that you do encounter. You see, I don't have to prove "my theory" at all. Just by my asking simple questions that you either cannot or will not answer you yourself have shown that you have nothing of any real substance to back your assertions. That should say something to you and everyone else that believes the government and conglomerated corporate media's conspiracy theory unthinkingly, uncritically and unquestioningly. You have failed miserably at taking your own advice mi amigo!

To sum up, you are the one who is being (in your own words) "intellectually dishonest" by demanding others do what you cannot or will not do.

Happy New Year!

 

[Gunny]

So in other words there are different sets of rules, one for you to play by and one for everyone else. I suppose it has to be that way because you know you have no credible evidence to support your wild conspiracy theory.

SOURCE



Remember it was you who said...

I then asked you to prove your own assertions, with actual facts. (or to take your own advice, practice what you preach...etc.)

To which you come back offering no actual facts but just more huffing and puffing, and trying to act like a tough guy, that's quite humorous imho. It clearly shows how absurd trying to defend your case really is. You got nothing but slurs, insults and a host of really worn out cliches (parroting) to counter all the actual facts that you do encounter. You see, I don't have to prove "my theory" at all. Just by my asking simple questions that you either cannot or will not answer and thus showing that you have nothing of real substance to back your assertions should say something to you and everyone else that believes the government and conglomerated corporate media's conspiracy theory unthinkingly, uncritically and unquestioningly. You have failed miserably at taking your own advice mi amigo!

To sum up, you are being (in your own words) "intellectually dishonest" by demanding others do what you cannot or will not do.

Happy New Year!

Wow. The old "backwards-assed reasoning/position reversal" ploy. Ge, you're just TOO smart for me.

It is not intellectually dishonest to expose and refuse to engage in your dishonest first-grade game. I made my point. Nothing further to do here and your desparate grasping at straws has led to nothing for quite awhile.
You have a nice day and be sure and watch out for "them". "They" ARE out to get you.

 

[Vastopol]

Wow. The old "backwards-assed reasoning/position reversal" ploy. Ge, you're just TOO smart for me.

It is not intellectually dishonest to expose and refuse to engage in your dishonest first-grade game. I made my point. Nothing further to do here and your desparate grasping at straws has led to nothing for quite awhile.
You have a nice day and be sure and watch out for "them". "They" ARE out to get you.

Sounds like the words of a desperate child to me. You've exposed nothing but the weakness of your arguments. Yes, you made your point very well...if your point was that you have nothing of substance to offer to back your assertions. But wait...that was my point and you went out of your way to help me make it. Thank you!

BTW, you don't like having to play by your own rules very much do you?

Something else I forgot to mention before.

 

[manu1959]

what is the point of this argument?

 

[Vastopol]

what is the point of this argument?

GunnyL proved my point well imo. People would rather believe any and all propaganda no matter how outrageous coming from their government and corporate controlled media than to put their brains to work searching through facts and history that are supported by real documentation. It's easier to be a sheople and follow the herd than to be an individual and follow all the available evidence to it's own conclusion.

 

[dilloduck]

GunnyL proved my point well imo. People would rather believe any and all propaganda no matter how outrageous coming from their government and corporate controlled media than to put their brains to work searching through facts and history that are supported by real documentation. It's easier to be a sheople and follow the herd than to be an individual and follow all the available evidence to it's own conclusion.

I'll have to sadly agree.

 

[manu1959]

GunnyL proved my point well imo. People would rather believe any and all propaganda no matter how outrageous coming from their government and corporate controlled media than to put their brains to work searching through facts and history that are supported by real documentation. It's easier to be a sheople and follow the herd than to be an individual and follow all the available evidence to it's own conclusion.

interesting....

so your brain tells you that the US govt. took out two high rises in NYC. crashed a plane in a corn field, made another disappear and faked an explosion at the Pentagon.

tell me ... to what end?

.....so as a disbeliever of the govt. and a user of your brain are you not simply sheople of a different herd?

check this out.....

http://ourworld.cs.com/mikegriffith1/refute.htm

 

[Gunny]

GunnyL proved my point well imo. People would rather believe any and all propaganda no matter how outrageous coming from their government and corporate controlled media than to put their brains to work searching through facts and history that are supported by real documentation. It's easier to be a sheople and follow the herd than to be an individual and follow all the available evidence to it's own conclusion.

Bullshit. One, I have made no assertions other than your so-called facts are OPINIONS. Please avail yourself of www.dictionary. com and look up the word "fact," then the word "opinion."

And I will repeat, when the facts presented support what the government says, it's kind of hard to disagree. The propaganda would be defined as the bullshit you have attempted to pass off as fact.

But you would have otherwise normal-thinking people believe that any and all unsupported, outlandish bullshit you can dream up in your paranoid little mind, or dreamed up in the equally, like, paranoid little minds of people like you is true.

Desperate? Dude, I killed you. End of story. You have done nothing but make bullshit accusations since, to deflect from the fact that your links are garbage.

So, it's mroe like I'm bored to tears with wasting my time on a freakin' moron who can't accept what can be seen with naked eye in favor of some paranoid delusional bullshit.

So I will repeat ... when you come up with an argument that is supported by fact and not J.R. Tolkein, get back to me. Until then, feel free to live in your stupid little world where "they" are out to get you.

 

[Gunny]

I'll have to sadly agree.

I find it hard to believe that you would agree with such outlandish bullshit.