Unions Win....GM Leaving Detroit?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Tech_Esq, May 12, 2009.

  1. Tech_Esq
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    Tech_Esq Sic Semper Tyrannis!

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    Is this the result Sealy was expecting when he and his compatriots in Michigan urged the UAW not to give in to corporate demands?

    GM CEO: Bankruptcy Likely; Firm May Leave Detroit

    Sounds like the death rattle of a company destroyed by the unions.
     
  2. KittenKoder
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    KittenKoder Senior Member

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    If they made a decent product and ran their business right ... this wouldn't have happened. 'Tis an effect of capitalism, a better company will fill the void if all the excess regulations don't prevent a new one from starting up like the normally do.
     
  3. Tech_Esq
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    Tech_Esq Sic Semper Tyrannis!

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    I don't know what the standard lines of GM cars were like over the last 15 years. I owned 3 Saturns in that time. I thought they were great cars. I never had a lick of mechanical trouble with them. My last one I drove 163,000 miles and it was still good to go. That car got 34 MPG in typical driving conditions and 42+ on the highway.

    By contrast, I now have a Honda and I've had to replace a wheel bearing, a belt tensioner and coil on. Not to mention brakes, tires, plugs etc. but I don't count those against it.

    So, I think GM was making at least some decent cars.

    It sounds like you are saying capitalism as short hand for companies that focused on the short term profitability of their companies at the expense of long term viability. Is that a fair statement?
     
  4. KittenKoder
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    KittenKoder Senior Member

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    If they were such great products and the company was run decently, then they wouldn't have failed, period.
     
  5. Tech_Esq
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    Tech_Esq Sic Semper Tyrannis!

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    I didn't say it was well run. I think the evidence on that is to the contrary.

    What I'm unclear on is whether, after the Wagner act, there is any other logical eventual outcome than what happened at GM if labor is organized at any given company.
     
  6. KittenKoder
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    KittenKoder Senior Member

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    Meh, I don't like unions, but when companies blame them all the time it's just whining ... it's like how the current president always blames the last one for every problem instead of fixing them.
     
  7. manu1959
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    manu1959 Left Coast Isolationist

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    i would say opel, cadillac, holden, vauxhaul, corvette saab, saturn and gmc are good products.....as for being well run.....life time health care and pensions are quite an economic burden.....
     
  8. Tech_Esq
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    Tech_Esq Sic Semper Tyrannis!

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    I definitely don't think they are the only problem. If they were, Ford wouldn't have been able to fix itself so it wasn't in the same position as GM and Chrysler. Having said that, labor is always the largest cost of doing the job (union or not) so any issues with labor prices are bound to be magnified.
     
  9. Indiana Oracle
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    Indiana Oracle The Truth is Hard to Find

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    GM is in trouble, IMO, because both management and the unions plundered the company, management felt the brand was immortal, and management was insular, slow moving and, basically, asleep at the helm for decades. Political parties tend to do the same thing when they get comfortable. Pox on all of them.
     
  10. auditor0007
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    auditor0007 Gold Member

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    For the most part, GM currently produces some very good vehicles. One of the big problems in the auto industry is that reputations die hard. Honda and Toyota built great reputations, and they are living off of those reputations, Toyota in particular. Toyota's product has become stagnant, and I think this is beginning to catch up with them.

    The funny thing is that Saturn built itself a bad name. Now, however, Saturn may actually be the best division GM has, although the sales are not there because once again, old reputations die hard. GM as a whole built itself a bad name. Changing perceptions is not an easy task.

    The one good thing going for all of these auto manufacturers is that pretty soon, people are going to have to begin buying new cars again. The old ones only last so long, and over the last couple of years, people have been holding off on purchasing new. This will change, and it will help. The question is how to get these companies through this cycle so that they are still here in some form five years from now.
     

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